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Old 01-23-2016, 11:33 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by tkarper14 View Post
I think westom is saying there are much better protection available that does not degrade over time, but it is doubtful that most would be willing to spend that amount of money.
Best protector uses MOVs. It degrades - after many decades. And then still remains functional. Cheap protectors (that are sold at expensive prices) degrade quickly when undersized. Degradation is so little with each surge (when an MOV protector is properly sized) that degradation is irrelevant.

Transistors also degrade with each switch. That degradation is also so little that nobody cares.

Many inferior protectors come from manufacturer with names such as APC, Belkin, Tripplite, Panamax, and Monster. These do not claim to do what is required / discussed here.

Progressive sells many models. Protection from surges discussed above is only in some models. And requires that protector to be as close to the pole as possible. Increased separation between protector and RV electronics increases protection. That is protection from one anomaly: destructive transients.

More common anomalies include voltage variations, floating neutral, open safety ground, and reversed polarity. Progressive (and competitive products) should also include that protection.
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Old 01-23-2016, 11:55 AM   #32
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Understand what we disagree on. Surge protectors are not sacraficial by design. They are sacrificial by the characterists of the components used. They are designed to offer the best protection consumers are willing to pay.

I too use a progressive hardwired because I think it is the BEST available for the price. But when it fails (and at some point it probably will) I know it will be replaced for no additional cost. I hesitate to say for free, because we actually pay for the replacement parts when the unit is first purchased. I also know why it failed and will not remove the unit and plug in directly to power.
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Old 01-23-2016, 12:03 PM   #33
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Obviously there are always very knowledgeable people about subjects that are brought up. So if there is a better one out there please don't hesitate to reveal your knowlege.
Thank you.
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Old 01-23-2016, 12:12 PM   #34
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I don't understand, what will cause a power cord fault? wouldn't you then be taken care of by your breaker in your unit either 50 or 30 amp? Not trying to be smart ***** but I don't understand your post. If you didn't use a portable you would surly trip the breaker in the unit. Just asking a question that's all...Example Please... I'm always willing to learn that is for sure.
I don't remember the exact scenario, but there was a thread on here within the past year or so where the cable between the rv and the pedestal had a failure. A break in the neutral I believe. A device at the pedestal wouldn't have seen the fault in the cable, and that sort of failure doesn't trip breakers.

Found the link.
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Old 01-23-2016, 12:16 PM   #35
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Totally and undeniably very happy with my progressive ems, I'd sure like to see a better alternative with a lifetime warranty .


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Old 01-24-2016, 09:26 AM   #36
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I don't remember the exact scenario, but there was a thread on here within the past year or so where the cable between the rv and the pedestal had a failure. A break in the neutral I believe. A device at the pedestal wouldn't have seen the fault in the cable, and that sort of failure doesn't trip breakers.

Found the link.
Okay thanks for that link 50 amp service yes, 30 amp not so much. I can understand 50 amp would cause a problem. Thanks again. Lets hope it won't happen to anyone.... I also agree with Turbs you better have something and still have never seen anything better then progressive. But Thank-you MIFARMER for getting back to me. Safe Travels to you.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:16 AM   #37
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Okay thanks for that link 50 amp service yes, 30 amp not so much. I can understand 50 amp would cause a problem. Thanks again. Lets hope it won't happen to anyone.... I also agree with Turbs you better have something and still have never seen anything better then progressive. But Thank-you MIFARMER for getting back to me. Safe Travels to you.
An open neutral will affect any level of service. Consider that at some point upstream the ground and neutral are bonded together. So if the neutral has a break, and there is any sort of connection between neutral and ground in any appliance in the rv (some do), electricity will take the ground circuit instead. Basically, when he switched on the A/C the juice entered on the hot leg and energized the neutral. Since there was no path to leave the rv on the neutral it took the next way it could, which was across the neutral and ground bonds inside the various appliances. All the amperage from the A/C unit was flowing through the neutral circuits in the camper, across the neutral-to-ground paths inside the appliances, and then out the ground circuit. Hence, the smoking appliances.

Now consider that the camper ground (frame) is now energized as long as that A/C unit is switched on. So had anyone touched the step in that condition...

My thought is that the cable gets flexed and twisted every time it is deployed, and wire can only flex so many times before it breaks. So that's why I have a hard wired Progressive EMS!
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:52 AM   #38
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An open neutral will affect any level of service. Consider that at some point upstream the ground and neutral are bonded together. So if the neutral has a break, and there is any sort of connection between neutral and ground in any appliance in the rv (some do), electricity will take the ground circuit instead. Basically, when he switched on the A/C the juice entered on the hot leg and energized the neutral. Since there was no path to leave the rv on the neutral it took the next way it could, which was across the neutral and ground bonds inside the various appliances. All the amperage from the A/C unit was flowing through the neutral circuits in the camper, across the neutral-to-ground paths inside the appliances, and then out the ground circuit. Hence, the smoking appliances.

Now consider that the camper ground (frame) is now energized as long as that A/C unit is switched on. So had anyone touched the step in that condition...

My thought is that the cable gets flexed and twisted every time it is deployed, and wire can only flex so many times before it breaks. So that's why I have a hard wired Progressive EMS!
X2.
Very good point, right on!
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:32 PM   #39
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An open neutral will affect any level of service. Consider that at some point upstream the ground and neutral are bonded together. So if the neutral has a break, and there is any sort of connection between neutral and ground in any appliance in the rv (some do), electricity will take the ground circuit instead. Basically, when he switched on the A/C the juice entered on the hot leg and energized the neutral. Since there was no path to leave the rv on the neutral it took the next way it could, which was across the neutral and ground bonds inside the various appliances. All the amperage from the A/C unit was flowing through the neutral circuits in the camper, across the neutral-to-ground paths inside the appliances, and then out the ground circuit. Hence, the smoking appliances.

Now consider that the camper ground (frame) is now energized as long as that A/C unit is switched on. So had anyone touched the step in that condition...

My thought is that the cable gets flexed and twisted every time it is deployed, and wire can only flex so many times before it breaks. So that's why I have a hard wired Progressive EMS!
Thanks for all these good points. Who knows how many times I have rolled that cord up in 4 years. Once again thanks.
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Old 01-24-2016, 03:22 PM   #40
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An open neutral will affect any level of service.
An open neutral will appear as a high or a low voltage on appliances. A Progressive protector will detect that voltage. Then cut off power to avert damage. Other devices called protectors will do nothing. Again. The word 'protector' says nothing useful. A best protector claims to avert that particular anomaly.

A neutral wire does not suddenly break. Incandescent bulbs increasing or decreasing intensity warn of that impending defect long before it fails.

Progressive is for anomalies more commonly found in campgrounds. To also protect from an anomaly called a surge, that Progressive must be a version that connects as close as possible to the pole. In every case, best solution is determined by reading specifications. Subjective recommendation can result in ineffective or wrong type of protection.
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