Trying to figure out 6 volt batteries

[Too Tall]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

Warning...long post ahead!

With info like this, please do! Excellent information. Was this your master's thesis or something, ha. Kidding. Really thanks for sharing this. I'm learning.

Question: So if I'm dry camping and discharging to say 60% and bringing the charge back up to maybe 80% each night with the generator (due to time constaints) Is that going to decrease the life of the batteries? Once I get home should I do a high rate charge as you described to bring them back to a storage level? thanks.

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by boondocking

Schumacher PSC-12500A

The de-sulf works excellent with this charger.

Schumacher Battery Charger PSC-12500A User Guide | ManualsOnline.com

I would seriously doubt if that is true for equalization and there is no mention of this in the manual. It seems that the voltage might be high enough in this mode, but the charger detects this automatically and I know of no way for this to be true. Sulfation is another thing entirely. In addition, Schumacher chargers are considered suspect by some. Personally I don't have one.

[boondocking]

I own one and it does automatically de-sulf batterys as stated.

[PokerDealer]

Originally Posted by Too Tall

With info like this, please do! Excellent information. Was this your master's thesis or something, ha. Kidding. Really thanks for sharing this. I'm learning.

Question: So if I'm dry camping and discharging to say 60% and bringing the charge back up to maybe 80% each night with the generator (due to time constaints) Is that going to decrease the life of the batteries? Once I get home should I do a high rate charge as you described to bring them back to a storage level? thanks.

You got it.... if you continually deplete the batteries below 50% and "short charge" them, it will decrease it's life. You're going to want to get more capacity or less usage if you can. Still if you take a little special care when you have time, that care will work in your favor.

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by Too Tall

...Question: So if I'm dry camping and discharging to say 60% and bringing the charge back up to maybe 80% each night with the generator (due to time constaints) Is that going to decrease the life of the batteries? Once I get home should I do a high rate charge as you described to bring them back to a storage level? thanks.

Good question and from what I can tell, discharges like that are not a problem.

Strangely, considering that flooded cells have been around for a long time, there are still some mysteries. When you discharge a lead acid battery, lead sulfate begins to form on the plates. This is a normal and reversible process and the sulfate will go back into the electrolyte when you charge again. It seems that for a while the sulfate is amorphous (no crystals) and is easily dissolved again on charging. When you deep discharge a battery there is an increased probability that this sulfate will form crystals and they are harder to reverse than amorphous sulfate. Hence when you go over 50% you will begin to form crystalline lead sulfate and some of this may not go away on recharge. When that happens, the battery permanently loses capacity. You can measure a good resting voltage but when you try to draw current the voltage will drop more rapidly as the cells don't store as much charge as they first did. One thing that is pretty well accepted though is that if you do go beyond 50% don't leave the battery in that state for very long. Immediately recharge it!

As a result, the normal 10,20 or even 40% discharge cycles should not have a permanent effect on the battery. Charge it back whenever. I did mention that without a Trimetric you don't know any of this stuff and with one you will start to get into information overload. I have 4-12 volt batteries in my rig and I told the Trimetric that my bank is 400 AH, which is conservative. Remember that the meter is only counting discharge current integrated over time. If you tell it your bank is larger than it is, it will give you a false sense of security on SOC. Electron counting is the only way it is working and while it tells you the voltage it really isn't doing much with that.

But at least you aren't looking at 4 red LEDs and trying to figure out how much reserve you have left and if you should start the generator and you aren't measuring resting voltage and looking at a chart either.

Now all of this is pretty well accepted. Beyond this there are snake oil treatments, ultrasonic de-sulfation and a whole bunch of other potential magic. Finally, there are some who add a couple of ounces of mineral oil to each cell and swear by it. Mineral oil does make sense and I think they may be right but I haven't decided to try that yet on my batteries, but I think I will get there.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Bpenn

What gauge of cable should you use between the two 6 volt batteries?

There is only one connecting cable between the two six volt batteries.
You should make that cable as short as possible and as big in diameter as you can find (to reduce inter-battery resistance). 4/0 welding cable if you can find it.

5X 4 0 AWG 17" Battery Cables Solar Power Solar Inverter Golf Cart Car UPS | eBay

[Too Tall]

I picked this up yesterday at pepboy's on the way home with the new 6 volts. Seems to work. A tad long but this was the shortest they had.

https://www.pepboys.com/product/details/9405949/00212

[Too Tall]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

When that happens, the battery permanently loses capacity. You can measure a good resting voltage but when you try to draw current the voltage will drop more rapidly as the cells don't store as much charge as they first did.

Can you see this loss with a hydrometer? I've got a12v that I think this is the issue. It charges up, measures fully charged voltage but the hydrometer floats in the white area closer to the red than green. Is that's what's going on. The battery works but draws down quicker and seems to charge quicker also. I think.

[GearHd6]

Originally Posted by Too Tall

Yea, they seem to be pretty good. Made in USA according to the specs if that's worth anything. Free replacement for a year.

I got a call from Batteries Plus (as expected) to tell me they didn't have the batteries in stock. But, they had an order into "East Penn" and they should be getting them in stock around the middle of this week.

[Too Tall]

Originally Posted by PokerDealer

You got it.... if you continually deplete the batteries below 50% and "short charge" them, it will decrease it's life. You're going to want to get more capacity or less usage if you can. Still if you take a little special care when you have time, that care will work in your favor.

Thanks, I'm going to work hard to prevent discharge below 50%.

this link looks helpful

Battery State-Of-Charge Chart For Voltage & Specific Gravity

[Too Tall]

Originally Posted by GearHd6

I got a call from Batteries Plus (as expected) to tell me they didn't have the batteries in stock. But, they had an order into "East Penn" and they should be getting them in stock around the middle of this week.

Great, I think we'll be happy with these batteries. Very well made and the huge capacity is really evident when you start topping them off. I'm anxious to get them in the box and do some testing with the converter.

Oh, when you pick them up, be sure and get the little $5 handling strap to carry them with.

[GearHd6]

I'd say anything is going to be better than my old 85ah marine battery.

And thanks for the tip on the handle. They had it there at the store?

[Too Tall]

Yes, it's just a little strap with two hooks that lets you grab the built in slots on the battery. They'll have it, in fact i would bet that what they bring the batteries out with. That's how I found out about it.

[Bako88fan]

Interesting topic and now I'm probably more confused than when I started reading. So my plan of removing my batteries, storing my RV 100 miles away (no shore power available) taking my batteries home and slow charging them after a weekend of boondocking is not the best idea.

[GearHd6]

Can you use a portable charger hooked right to the batteries with the batteries still hooked to the RV? If not, will the factory disconnect be enough to disconnect from the converter or would I need to install another disconnect up near the batteries?

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by Bako88fan

Interesting topic and now I'm probably more confused than when I started reading. So my plan of removing my batteries, storing my RV 100 miles away (no shore power available) taking my batteries home and slow charging them after a weekend of boondocking is not the best idea.

All of the traffic on this topic is the main reason that I am installing 150 to 300 watts of solar on my coach. Not for boondocking but for maintaining my batteries when disconnected from shore power. Don't care if they get to 100% in one day or a week. They will get there and continually maintained without any 110 volt shore connection.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Bako88fan

Interesting topic and now I'm probably more confused than when I started reading. So my plan of removing my batteries, storing my RV 100 miles away (no shore power available) taking my batteries home and slow charging them after a weekend of boondocking is not the best idea.

If that is your plan then don't let anything here stop you, IMO.

If your batteries are deeply discharged and you bring them home and put them on a 4 stage battery minder, you will have fully charged batteries when you go out again. While you won't get all the "possible" useful life out of them this way, you will most likely get what you need out of them.

Consider it part of the cost of camping; like buying gas and tires. The batteries "are consumed" and the cost amortized over the life you do get out of them before they need to be replaced.

This is what I use for my HAM radio backup battery.
BatteryMINDer Charger/Maintainer/Desulfater - 12V, Model# 2012

[Too Tall]

I've been reading up on 6v golf cart batteries and just purchased two Duracell 230 amp/hr batteries. After topping them off and letting them rest overnight, I measured 6.45 v each 1260-1265 (hard to read) SG @ 68 deg F. this seemed a little low to me since I figured 1275 is full charge. Both batteries have identical SG in every cell and volts are both exactly the same so I think this is just a characteristic of the battery.

But then, I was reading on the Trojan site in which they stated all their batteries made before 2012 were fully charged at 1260 SG. They also stated that the lower SG on the pre 2012 batteries did not reduce there performance, amp/hrs etc... After that they made a change that the newer Trojans top off at 1278 SG. But they claim both batteries have the same capacity, life etc........... So I have more to learn about SG.

So I'm wondering, what controls the initial SG and does it matter where OEM sets the SG as fully charged.?

[SKnight]

Originally Posted by Bako88fan

Interesting topic and now I'm probably more confused than when I started reading. So my plan of removing my batteries, storing my RV 100 miles away (no shore power available) taking my batteries home and slow charging them after a weekend of boondocking is not the best idea.

Why not? You'll be bringing two batteries home instead of one. Bring them home, connect the positive of one to the negative of the other, then connect your battery charger as you would a 12V battery.

[Too Tall]

Originally Posted by Too Tall

I've been reading up on 6v golf cart batteries and just purchased two Duracell 230 amp/hr batteries. After topping them off and letting them rest overnight, I measured 6.45 v each 1260-1265 (hard to read) SG @ 68 deg F. this seemed a little low to me since I figured 1275 is full charge. Both batteries have identical SG in every cell and volts are both exactly the same so I think this is just a characteristic of the battery.

But then, I was reading on the Trojan site in which they stated all their batteries made before 2012 were fully charged at 1260 SG. They also stated that the lower SG on the pre 2012 batteries did not reduce there performance, amp/hrs etc... After that they made a change that the newer Trojans top off at 1278 SG. But they claim both batteries have the same capacity, life etc........... So I have more to learn about SG.

So I'm wondering, what controls the initial SG and does it matter where OEM sets the SG as fully charged.?

Hey TooTall, that is the dumbest most ignorant question I've ever seen on this board, but I'll answer it for you. Specific Gravity is determined by the amount of electrolyte in the battery. Period.

No regarding your Duracells, they are made by a company called East Penn who makes Deka batteries a well known and respected brand. I supspect your Duracells are really Deka's.

Regarding, measuring SG with a hydrometer. Make sure the hydrometer is dry above the float level as the friction of the fluid will prevent the float from rising to it's true float position and will give low reading. Once I cleaned my hydrometer, I'm now seeing SG like 1275 to 80. So dry out your hydrometer, dumb A__.