Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-31-2016, 04:17 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North of I-10 & South of I-94, but East of I-5 & West of I-95
Posts: 64
Use a Single Inverter to run Two 120v Breaker Bus for a 240 Volt setup

Hello All,
Does anyone know of an article where a single inverter, mounted away from the camper, is running a 240 volt setup to a 50 amp RV hookup box?
I do not believe I can run two inverters, one per bus, because they will not be phased.
Thanks for the help
__________________

__________________
2nd House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 04:22 PM   #2
Site Team
 
Kaadk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,469
Use a Single Inverter to run Two 12oV Breaker Bus for a 240 Volt setup

A 50A rv runs on 110, not 240.

Edit: oops, bumped the send too soon.

As I was saying, the 50A trailer uses each leg independently, to provide 110 each. So you should be able to split your supply to both legs equally, just like a 30a to 50a dogbone adapter does.

Btw, when you say 'inverter' do you mean a generator? Or are you talking about a true inverter that turns battery power back into AC power?
__________________

__________________
There's no use crying over spilt milk, unless it's on your keyboard.
Kaadk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 04:26 PM   #3
Pickin' & Campin'
 
5picker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Western PA
Posts: 5,048
The phase issue on a 50 amp RV plug is commonly misunderstood. It is all SINGLE phase.
Yes, they are on separate buses and SPLIT but not different phases.

If all you are trying to do is be able to operate things on both sides of your 50 amp service from an inverter, get an adapter that feeds 110v to both sides of your 50 amp plug. (See wiring in lower right of schematic)

__________________
_________________________________________
2016 Flagstaff 8529IKBS Diamond Package 5th Wheel
2017 Ford F-Series SCREW 4x4
TST Tire Monitor w/Repeater - Sinemate 3500w Gen.
Days Camped: '15=22 '16=46 '17=30
5picker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 05:03 PM   #4
Site Team
 
wmtire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast Louisiana
Posts: 15,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd House View Post
Hello All,
Does anyone know of an article where a single inverter, mounted away from the camper, is running a 240 volt setup to a 50 amp RV hookup box?
I do not believe I can run two inverters, one per bus, because they will not be phased.
Thanks for the help
I too am extremely confused by your terminology (inverter, hookup box?). Are you perhaps meaning to ask how to connect two "inverter" generators to provide power to a 50 amp RV?

Honda and Yamaha have special cables for this, and you cannot parallel ALL of their generators.

What you would do, is parallel the two generators together, and then use an adapter like 5picker pointed out to hook to the RV if you only have a 30 amp 120 volt outlet, which then shares the generators power across both the L1 and L2 inside the RV. I think some of the generators parallel kits will have the 50 amp outlet too, where you won't have to use an adapter.

Here is an article on the Hondas:

http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...lel-capability
__________________
2011 Flagstaff 831 RLBSS

Ducks are just all-terrain chickens
wmtire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 05:46 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Englewood FL
Posts: 1,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd House View Post
Hello All,
Does anyone know of an article where a single inverter, mounted away from the camper, is running a 240 volt setup to a 50 amp RV hookup box?
I do not believe I can run two inverters, one per bus, because they will not be phased.
Thanks for the help
I agree that perhaps you mean two generators or two inverters, both feeding your 50 amp power cable and panel. Now,

They don't have to be in phase (inverters or generators) since nothing in your RV is using the 240 volts across both of them, but rather one side of your panel is using one of the 120 lines and the other is using the other 120 volt line. Now, that being said, if the two sources are out of phase it really won't matter to either half of the panel anyway. Some inverters can be "grid tied" so that they will sync, and the same is true of inverter generators as others have suggested. Mechanical generators are more problematic since they would need mechanical governors to match phase.

Now, all that being said, if you put in a 3500 or 5000 watt inverter, you can use a dogbone adaptor as others have suggested to power both sides of the panel with a single source.
__________________

2015 335DS
ScottBrownstein is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 06:13 PM   #6
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 21,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5picker View Post
The phase issue on a 50 amp RV plug is commonly misunderstood. It is all SINGLE phase.
Yes, they are on separate buses and SPLIT but not different phases.

If all you are trying to do is be able to operate things on both sides of your 50 amp service from an inverter, get an adapter that feeds 110v to both sides of your 50 amp plug. (See wiring in lower right of schematic)

I am not sure about this; every wiring diagram for 50 amp RV was 2 phase like the middle plug in your drawing.

I think you are confusing the issue (and yourself) by showing the 30 amp 110 single phase dogbone wiring diagram at the end. It is limited to 30 amps TOTAL on both legs added together. 20 amps on L1 and 10 amps on L2 for example.

This is an important point because if the 50 amp RV plug was not two phase, the neutral would have to be twice as large to handle the return current.

In a 2 phase system (both 110 volts), the hot wires alternate 180 degrees out of phase 60 times a second allowing the neutral to only "see" the return current on one leg at a time.

OK, yea, I am sure you misunderstood.
__________________

Lou and Laura with Bella - German Short Hair Pointer
2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2010 Flagstaff 8526RLWS - Superglide 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 06:22 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Englewood FL
Posts: 1,599
Actually, virtually all home wiring is not two phase, but center tapped single phase, as shown in the diagram. In a two or three phase system, each leg is 120 degrees out of phase. Hence a residential "high voltage outlet" is not 208 volts but 240 volts, since both sides are derived from the same phase from the powerplant. The 208 volt version has reduced voltage from the phase difference between two 120 volt swine waves that are 120 degrees out of phase. The center tap is grounded at the power meter and becomes a "neutral" from there. Hence, the neutral can carry more current than each individual hot lead, but never more that the total current at 240 volts.
__________________

2015 335DS
ScottBrownstein is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 08:36 PM   #8
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 21,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein View Post
Actually, virtually all home wiring is not two phase, but center tapped single phase, as shown in the diagram. In a two or three phase system, each leg is 120 degrees out of phase. Hence a residential "high voltage outlet" is not 208 volts but 240 volts, since both sides are derived from the same phase from the powerplant. The 208 volt version has reduced voltage from the phase difference between two 120 volt swine waves that are 120 degrees out of phase. The center tap is grounded at the power meter and becomes a "neutral" from there. Hence, the neutral can carry more current than each individual hot lead, but never more that the total current at 240 volts.


My head just exploded ...

Been a long time since school, and I don't remember it that way.
I am sure you are right, but I don't think it matters in the RV world.
__________________

Lou and Laura with Bella - German Short Hair Pointer
2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2010 Flagstaff 8526RLWS - Superglide 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 09:06 PM   #9
Pickin' & Campin'
 
5picker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Western PA
Posts: 5,048
Lou,
I hope from your comments about ScottBrownsteins' post that you realize I am not confused about 50 amp R/V wiring and respectively, the schematic clearly points out that through an adapter, both sides of the 110v can be supplied from one feed. Keep in mind, this is typically used for temporary situations where a normal 50 amp (center plug of schematic) isn't available. And yes, you are limited to whatever amps are available by the breaker feeding that leg.

This is very commonly done by 30-to-50 amp adapters but can also be found in some pedastals to create a somewhat 'fake' 50 amp socket.

Again, a 50 amp R/V supply is not two separate phases. It is a split (single) phase from two separate busses in the breaker box.

My inclusion of the schematic was to simply show that the 50 amp plug can be (and often is by using a dog bone) fed from the same hot leg.
__________________
_________________________________________
2016 Flagstaff 8529IKBS Diamond Package 5th Wheel
2017 Ford F-Series SCREW 4x4
TST Tire Monitor w/Repeater - Sinemate 3500w Gen.
Days Camped: '15=22 '16=46 '17=30
5picker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 10:36 PM   #10
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 21,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5picker View Post
Lou,
I hope from your comments about ScottBrownsteins' post that you realize I am not confused about 50 amp R/V wiring and respectively, the schematic clearly points out that through an adapter, both sides of the 110v can be supplied from one feed. Keep in mind, this is typically used for temporary situations where a normal 50 amp (center plug of schematic) isn't available. And yes, you are limited to whatever amps are available by the breaker feeding that leg.

This is very commonly done by 30-to-50 amp adapters but can also be found in some pedastals to create a somewhat 'fake' 50 amp socket.

Again, a 50 amp R/V supply is not two separate phases. It is a split (single) phase from two separate busses in the breaker box.

My inclusion of the schematic was to simply show that the 50 amp plug can be (and often is by using a dog bone) fed from the same hot leg.
I must not be thinking clearly obviously.

In a 30 amp RV (3 prong) outlet feeding a 50 amp RV dogbone:

The 30 amp limit on the dogbone adapter is limited by the neutral wire size and the pedestal breaker sized for that wire gauge. It does not matter what is on each leg (L1 and L2) so long as the sum does not exceed 30 amps.

In a 50 amp RV (4 prong) outlet:

If the two legs (L1 and L2) are "high" at the same time (in phase), won't the neutral see return current from both circuits? If they are each broken at 50 amps, won't the neutral "see" as much as 100 amps (if both legs are drawing 50 amps concurrently)?

Should not L1 and L2 be out of phase (L1 Vpeak when L2 is crossing zero) and L2 Vpeak when L1 is crossing zero) so the current on the neutral never exceeds 50 amps?

Still can't wrap my mind around them both being in phase and "high" at the same time. It has to be CRS at my age.
__________________

__________________

Lou and Laura with Bella - German Short Hair Pointer
2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2010 Flagstaff 8526RLWS - Superglide 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
breaker, inverter

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




ForestRiverForums.com is not in any way associated with Forest River, Inc. or its associated RV manufacturing divisions.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05 AM.