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Old 09-02-2019, 07:09 PM   #1
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Want to FULLY charge your LiFePo batteries from a Tow vehicle

After earlier this year installing a pair of Battleborn batteries in my TT I have been less than satisfied with how they charged from my Tow Vehicle. At first I just tried to charge them from the Charge wire incorporated into the 7-pin connector. Results were disappointing at best. 5-6 amp charge current even if batteries well discharged.

Second attempt, I bough a DC to DC Charger from Renogy (DCC-1212-20) which boosts charge voltage to the 14.6 required to charge the LiFePo's. Not terribly expensive ($127) and I had high hopes. Based on the wire size in the "Pigtail" I figured it would handle the current necessary to deliver a full 20 amp charge rate to my depleted batteries. Result? About 12-13 amp while cruising down the road (as shown on my Smartpone App for my Victron Battery Monitor. Still not seeing the full 20 amp advertised by Renogy.

At this point I had a cruel fact revealed to me. I crawled under the truck and looked at the wires feeding the trailer connector receptacle. IF the largest wire is 12 ga I'll be greatly surprised. If they followed the same wire sizes used in pigtails, the charge and ground would be #10, the Brake line #12, and the rest of the lighting wires would be #14. The supply wires in mine look more like they are all one size smaller.

Obviously my DC-DC charger was being starved of power.

Here are a series of pictures of what I did to solve the issue:

First, some new wiring in the truck----



Wire size -- #8 AWG and Circuit breaker -- 30 amp. Wires encased in some "Wire Loom" and zip tied to the main loom that runs from just behind the battery, along the frame, to the back of the truck. #8 wire was largest practical size for my application.


Next, some new wiring for the Trailer:



A 15 foot length of #8-2 Marine wire (heavier insulation than most other paired wires as well as fine stranded for flex)

Terminated with a 50 amp Anderson Connector at wire end with some liquid electrical tape to keep out dirt and as much water as possible. Other end of Anderson connector is secured right next to the regular trailer receptacle so I just plug them both in at the same time.

Wiring inside my "Electrical Compartment" needed some changes too:

The Compartment----



Added larger wire feed to the DC-DC charger:



Output from DC-DC Charger showing "control wire":


Control wire is wired directly to old 12V feed from receptacle which is only hot when engine is running. This turns on or off the Charger, depending on whether engine is running, even though Charger is being fed directly from TV battery. Without this control it would be possible for the DC-DC Charger to run the starting battery down even without the engine running. This way everything works when I run the engine and when stopped, all is off, even if i leave everything plugged in.

I also added a "cheap Chinese" panel mount meter to monitor the input voltage and current to the Charger. It works independent to the regular shunt for my Victron and merely measures the input power so I can compare with the output as shown on my Victron. Only $14 on Amazon so I said "why not". Only need simple voltage/amperage readings with none of the fancy battery monitoring functions so it's adequate.




And now for the results. After all the wiring etc, I backed the truck up, hooked everything up, started engine, closed circuit breaker, and after making sure there was no smoke, read the input meter.



26.7 Amp of Input current at 13.1 volts. or 349 watts.

Actual charging current shown on the Victron Monitor was a full 20 amp which is the max for the unit and wattage was shown as 250 which again is max for the unit. The LiFePo batteries will continue to suck up the power at the 20 amp rate until the internal voltage climbs and it will eventually drop to zero. Voltage at the battery will vary from a low in the 12 volt range until it rises to 14.6 just before current drops to nothing.

It appears that the process of boosting voltage is about 75% efficient but I can live with that. Since most of my driving days are around 4 hours average I will arrive at my next location with fully charged batteries and not have to worry about starting generator or whether or not there will be enough Sun the next day to do the job.


Some notes:

I chose the 20 amp model as my vehicle alternator is a little small by today's standards. Only 130 amp and I didn't feel like paying $600 for a larger, 225 Amp one. Renogy does offer a 40 amp unit that would be ideal for those with larger alternators and larger battery banks.

This work was done on a Tow Vehicle and Travel Trailer. For those who have Motorhomes the principle is the same, just the wiring is easier as no Anderson Connectors and extra wiring would be needed. A simple pair of wires from Starter Battery to charger location (Renogy specifies not using chassis ground for a common/neg connection).

Remember, this was done for LiFePo batteries but similar benefits can be obtained by those who want to fully charge their batteries from a Tow Vehicle or Motor Home Alternator. Newer vehicles are especially difficult to have them charge "Auxiliary" batteries as many incorporate a current sensor (shunt) in the battery's negative connection on the starting battery. Once the starting battery is fully charged, the alternator's output if reduced to prevent overcharging and also free up horsepower that would ordinarily be used to turn the alternator under load. This is the main reason these DC-DC Chargers are becoming popular in the RV industry. (For those who need a regulated power supply with steady voltage output, these work great for that as well. Output voltages can be set with various DIP switch settings to keep electronic gear from being exposed to low voltages from a battery or high voltages from an alternator)

I chose to re-purpose the small compartment at the front of my Travel Trailer as a dedicated electrical compartment. Batteries are inside and out of the hot/cold environment. Connections to many of my added accessories are made to Bus Bars and ALL power can be disconnected with the turn of one switch. Compartment was pretty much useless before as it was too small for a tool box but is proving to be just right for what I'm using it for.



Now that this project is done I'll have to think about what next. Who knows, maybe I'll tackle the "Spaghetti Bowl" of wires behind my power distribution panel and make it look more like the wiring on my old boat. Everything to a series of terminal strips with labels, then into the power distribution panel. Right now it looks more like a wire scrap box in the back of an Electrician's van.
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Old 09-02-2019, 09:54 PM   #2
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This is amazing, Mike! I’m actually seeing a negative draw on my batteries as I drive according to my Victron monitor.

Before a 5 hour travel day:
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And then after:
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Yours is the first set of step-by-step instructions that I’ve seen. I have a huge alternator or even two of them, so I should be able to go with a larger DC-to-DC charger.
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Old 09-02-2019, 11:33 PM   #3
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I met a guy at a campground that had "welding cable" (his words, probably 0/0) run through a solenoid to an Anderson to his batteries. Said he could run his AC when they stopped for lunch, as long as he left the truck idle (Duramax, so big alternator).

Interesting, for sure.
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Old 09-03-2019, 10:10 AM   #4
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I met a guy at a campground that had "welding cable" (his words, probably 0/0) run through a solenoid to an Anderson to his batteries. Said he could run his AC when they stopped for lunch, as long as he left the truck idle (Duramax, so big alternator).

Interesting, for sure.
Probably could run the AC with that wire size as long as he also had a large enough Inverter to handle the starting load.
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Old 09-03-2019, 10:14 AM   #5
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What was the voltage at the DC to DC converter before the wire change? How much total voltage drop were you seeing?
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Old 09-03-2019, 10:53 AM   #6
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What was the voltage at the DC to DC converter before the wire change? How much total voltage drop were you seeing?
Honestly, never read voltage at input. Once I looked at wire size in truck I knew it had to be remedied.

Working backwards, using the reduction in current output (about 35%) it was probably down around the lower input limit of 8 volts.

Even with the #8 wire I still have about a 5% voltage drop. I stuck with the #8 wire as it was the largest marine wire I could buy locally and anything larger would have created a rather large "umbilical" to connect to the TV.

Current peaked at 13 amp +/- a few tenths which is 35% less than the current output of 19.7-20 amp which is max for the unit. Input voltage is now over 13 volts as shown on the input meter (allowing for "Chinese accuracy" ).

FWIW, I probably could have gotten by with the existing setup but that much voltage drop certainly indicated the current capacity of the TV wiring was taxed. Since it's in my nature to try and make things work properly I decided it was worth a few $$ and a couple of afternoons to do the upgrade. Wire, connectors, and volt/amp meter (optional) cost me around $60 which is a lot less than what I used to drink on a lazy afternoon when I wanted to kill time ( I used to enjoy sipping REALLY GOOD Scotch while puffing on an equally good Cigar. With those my money literally "went down the drain and up in smoke" almost at the same time)
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:37 AM   #7
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14v x 13A = 182W. If you had 8V you had 22A before the DC to DC. There must have been a lot of voltage drop in all the connectors because even 20 feet of 14 gauge wire would be less than 1.5V drop.

With my F-150 I get 2A into my LiFePo4 but I actually don't care since I have so much solar and I turn off my solar on my way home from trips. For my F-150, I have 14 gauge wire which is kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

I would have done the same thing with the wire upgrade.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:38 PM   #8
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There must have been a lot of voltage drop in all the connectors because even 20 feet of 14 gauge wire would be less than 1.5V drop.
Actual length is more like twice that. Tow wiring in truck uses a home run ground rather than chassis ground so you have to figure round trip length of the wire.

Also, if you use this calculator
https://www.wirebarn.com/Wire-Calculator-_ep_41.html

I'd need #12 wire just to keep the voltage drop to 10% or just under 1.5 volts.

I wish I had measured voltage prior to the upgrade but all I can say now is it's working as it should NOW and it wasn't before. As for the connector, "pins" were recently cleaned although the design used by Nissan places another set of contacts behind the actual receptacle. Harness has a separate connector that the receptacle plugs into. Also need to take into consideration the contacts upstream at the fuse, relay, and power distribution box. All possible loss points. New setup is much more streamlined.

I opted for the circuit breaker I can manually shut off so the line to the rear of the truck is dead until I want to use it. I did err however and failed to "de-rate" it for under hood temps. May have to replace if it trips due to heat. That will depend on how hot it really gets under the hood while cruising down the road. I recently changed the grille for one less restrictive to air flow. I guess that will be part of the fine tuning process
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Old 09-03-2019, 02:05 PM   #9
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I think mine uses the chassis ground.
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Old 09-03-2019, 09:55 PM   #10
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Great pictures and description of your installation!
I also ran heavy cables (#2) from my TV battery to the lead acid batteries on the trailer using the Anderson connectors. My Bogart solar charge controller functions as the DC-DC charger. I have only used it once. Batteries went from about 80% to 95% charge on the 2.5 hour trip home with a little assist from 200 watt solar panels on roof. Unfortunately I don't have a way to monitor charging while driving.
Since I have the Anderson plug at the back bumper I put a matching connector on my ViAir compressor. Quick and easy way to power the compressor.
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Old 09-03-2019, 10:36 PM   #11
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Nice job! I had installed a power inverter in my TV to power compressor and stuff. Used a enconomicly challenged circuit breaker and it would thermo out with continuous use. Installed a quality unit and do not have that problem any more.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:34 AM   #12
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Since I have the Anderson plug at the back bumper I put a matching connector on my ViAir compressor. Quick and easy way to power the compressor.
I've considered doing the same and have a couple Anderson connectors left over from this project.

However-

I' also considering just installing my 12V compressor in the TT and wiring permanently to the TT's 12v system. I'd then run compressed air the outside of the TT with a quick disconnect on the end. If I need compressed air I'd only need to pull out my coiled hose and inflator/gauge, flip switch, and air up whatever needs airing up.

In my electrical compartment I have unused space above the batteries and if I added a small shelf it would be perfect for the compressor and it's location on the "Curb Side" and front corner of the TT makes it perfect to access in just about any circumstance, even in a difficult roadside need. Just the hose to haul around and no time wasted setting up and connecting the compressor.

Just sharing.
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:15 PM   #13
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I've considered doing the same and have a couple Anderson connectors left over from this project.

However-

I' also considering just installing my 12V compressor in the TT and wiring permanently to the TT's 12v system. I'd then run compressed air the outside of the TT with a quick disconnect on the end. If I need compressed air I'd only need to pull out my coiled hose and inflator/gauge, flip switch, and air up whatever needs airing up.

In my electrical compartment I have unused space above the batteries and if I added a small shelf it would be perfect for the compressor and it's location on the "Curb Side" and front corner of the TT makes it perfect to access in just about any circumstance, even in a difficult roadside need. Just the hose to haul around and no time wasted setting up and connecting the compressor.

Just sharing.
I've been considering that, but there are a few rare times that I want to take the compressor with me. I guess I could still do it if it was connected with Anderson connectors to the trailer.
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:17 PM   #14
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I've considered doing the same and have a couple Anderson connectors left over from this project.

However-

I' also considering just installing my 12V compressor in the TT and wiring permanently to the TT's 12v system. I'd then run compressed air the outside of the TT with a quick disconnect on the end.

Just sharing.
Murphy's Law says once you do that someone will let the air out of your truck tire when you don't have the trailer with you.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:58 PM   #15
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Mike - something i don't understand in this statement:


"Some notes:
...Newer vehicles are especially difficult to have them charge "Auxiliary" batteries as many incorporate a current sensor (shunt) in the battery's negative connection on the starting battery. Once the starting battery is fully charged, the alternator's output is reduced to prevent overcharging and also free up horsepower that would ordinarily be used to turn the alternator under load. This is the main reason these DC-DC Chargers are becoming popular in the RV industry."


If the Aux battery is directly wired in parallel to the TV battery posts, would the alternator not see the common state of charge and keep the output higher until both batteries are charged?
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Old 09-07-2019, 05:40 PM   #16
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Mike - something i don't understand in this statement:


"Some notes:
...Newer vehicles are especially difficult to have them charge "Auxiliary" batteries as many incorporate a current sensor (shunt) in the battery's negative connection on the starting battery. Once the starting battery is fully charged, the alternator's output is reduced to prevent overcharging and also free up horsepower that would ordinarily be used to turn the alternator under load. This is the main reason these DC-DC Chargers are becoming popular in the RV industry."


If the Aux battery is directly wired in parallel to the TV battery posts, would the alternator not see the common state of charge and keep the output higher until both batteries are charged?
Possibly. IF the batteries were right next to each other and there was no voltage drop to the aux. IF the batteries were the same type and capacity.

The problem with the newer vehicles is that the ground from the starter battery is where the monitoring for alternator output is done and the auxiliary battery is usually mounted in a different location and has it's own ground to chassis.

I underlined "type" because in my case my starting battery and my "auxilliary" batteries are different types. Lead Acid for starting and "Lithium" for the Aux. If they were wired in parallel the Lithium batteries would tend to discharge through the Lead Acid batteries due to their different voltage levels.

In order to have two lead acid batteries "look like one" they would have to be real close to each other and be wired with each terminal together, positive to positive and negative to negative so ALL current passes through the shunt used in the newer vehicles.

A note for anyone looking for this shunt, many look a lot like a "terminal fuse" which is just a pair of plates or washers, separated by insulators and a very small shunt connecting them. Could be hard to spot as they are much smaller than the large shunts used for Battery Monitors.

Here's a pic of the one used on GM vehicles



As you'll note it might be hard to wire a second battery so it's "seen as one" by the control circuits and more importantly, without causing problems with one battery over-charging and the other under charging.
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Old 09-07-2019, 05:51 PM   #17
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Nice job and write-up TitanMike. I have just started entry to the BattleBorn world. I am starting with one battery for my Surveyor 264RKLE. It is supposed to be here next week. I also ordered the 20 amp Renogy DC to DC and Prime just dropped it off. still in the box because grandkids are spending the night.

Looks like a good idea for front compartment space. And I like the use of the TV charging circuit as the trigger for the Renogy. I was grinding that thru my head, you just made up my mind. Thanks!

What setting did you put the Renogy on to work with the BB battery?
Yes, the Anderson is not fully inserted and there are 2 wires going thru it.
I already have #2 wires from the TV battery, thru a Blue Sea ACR, to a Anderson SB350 at the rear bumper for charging the Odyssey #31 which is being replaced. I will have to eliminate the ACR.

Are you happy with the inverter?
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:10 PM   #18
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Possibly. IF the batteries were right next to each other and there was no voltage drop to the aux. IF the batteries were the same type and capacity.

Ah, OK that makes sense. And now I know what that funky connector is on top of my Expedition's battery post. I should be OK with what I'm doing. Thanks for the great write-up and pictorial, it helps those of us who like to tinker
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:48 PM   #19
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What setting did you put the Renogy on to work with the BB battery?
S1 ON
S2 ON
S3 ON
S4 ON

S5 OFF

Manual was confusing so I contacted Renogy Tech Dept. They supposedly corrected the online manual but the above is what the Tech gave me and it works great. If you are using a monitor that shows "Over voltage" you may see 14.7 volt warnings but the BMS in the Battleborns just shut off charging current at that level which is a full charge anyway so you don't need more. BMS will reset when voltage drops and it doesn't affect discharge.


Are you happy with the inverter?[/QUOTE]


Yes. Handles all my needs. Haven't decided whether or not to swap for a 2KW Inverter for the microwave as I rarely use the microwave and if I do, I just run the generator which is semi-permanently mounted on the TT for a few minutes.
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:51 PM   #20
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Ah, OK that makes sense. And now I know what that funky connector is on top of my Expedition's battery post. I should be OK with what I'm doing. Thanks for the great write-up and pictorial, it helps those of us who like to tinker

That funky connector, if it's on the positive post is where all the fusible links are located. They function as catastrophic failure fuses to keep wiring from catching fire in an accident or other failure.

If it's on the negative post it's for the Alternator control discussed earlier.


Happy to share. Can't count the number of times other's sharing has helped me out.
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