WFCO Inverter

[Davidg]

It appears that my battery box is sized to hold 2 six volt batteries in series, and 1 twelve volt battery. So,....since the two six volt batteries would have more amperage capacity, should they power the main system with the high current requirement of the level up system? or the inverter with the fridge?
hmmm....a pox on Forest River for not putting this information in the manuals.....and another pox for not including the correct manuals in the rv,.....and another pox for not requiring the dealers to "Do It Right!"

But that's expecting to much isn't it?....sheeesh.

[Joe_GA]

Originally Posted by Davidg

Joe, at least you had the right batteries to begin with. I wonder if I could simply parallel both 12 volt batteries, and maybe add a third 12 volt battery, also wired in parallel..... thoughts?

probably still would not have the amp capacity of four 6 volt batteries.

Joe, can you tell me what the amperage capacity of your batteries are?

Thanks

David, not only can you parallel the two 12 volt batteries, you will have to do so. Otherwise, your inverter battery will never charge. Your slides will work better with the increased capacity of two batteries and the refrigerator will run longer on the inverter, as you travel. My supper is cooking right now, but I'll try to get you some numbers after supper. My 5er is about 250 feet down the hill from the house. I got a new driveway installed, but can't bring the 5er up there yet because I just had a triple cardiac bypass on the 9th of this month.

[Davidg]

Joe, thank you! You've already been a lot of help. Please do not make a special trip down there for my benefit. Your health is way more important than my need for information.

Thanks again;

dg

[Joe_GA]

No problem. Walking is good for me! My battery compartment is about 29" long X 11" deep X 18" high. The batteries are about 10" high and fill the compartment. I don't know what the amperage of the batteries are. I'm trying to post a photo.

[Davidg]

Well, in that case, walk back and take a pic from the other side....he he

All I can say Joe, is "that's a compartment full of batteries! I think I've figured out my next move. I can get the exact battery as I have now at Academy, so,....one more battery, and build a few cables to place them in parallel. That should do it. I'll bet the slides and level-up will run better as well.

Thanks Joe, and also everyone else.

dg

[Joe_GA]

Good luck, David. glad to hear you are buying the same battery. Batteries in parallel need to be the same and close to same age. When one goes bad, it will try to pull the others down with it, so it pays to always stay on top of them!

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Herk7769

To post photos use the paper clip icon in the advanced menu mode.
You can attach up to 10 photos per post.

I sent an email to tech support at WFCO this morning and will most likely not hear back till tuesday or wednesday.

Are you sure there are no smaller gauge wires going to either the inverter or battery?

Reply from Tech support; your inverter is just an inverter with no charging capability.

There still needs to be a wire we are missing that goes to the converter. There should also be a blocking diode between the fridge battery and the converter to prevent the fridge battery from discharging into the house battery.

Good luck as I have exhausted my limited knowledge of this system.


-----Original Message-----
From: John [mailto:j.klocek@wfcoelectronics.com]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:46 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Technical Support

No, it is a inverter and does no charging.

Technical Support
Converter-model-number : WF-5110HP
Comments/Questions :
Will this unit also charge the backup battery from the available AC input source?

[wanderer69]

Is there a label in your battery compartment that reads "Requires 4 6V Batteries" also shows a wiring diagram for them. There have been many threads on these forums where people are having problems with there new units because the dealer only installed one or two 12V batteries. One of the problems you will encounter is that one 12V will not keep up with that refrigerator. Call Cedar Creek and verify this. Then get back with that dealer. The drive to get the "correct battery setup" will be worth it. Dealers do this to make more money on the deal, 2 12V is a lot cheaper than 4 6V. The dealer knows these systems require 4 6V. With correct batteries and wired according to the diagram you will not have a problems.

[Davidg]

Herk, thanks so much for running that down for me. It's an awesome thing when a total stranger will go out of their way to do something for another person.
Thank you again....

dg

[Davidg]

Tom, your assessment is correct, but I have no labels providing specs nor a wiring diagram. The thing that has me somewhat confused is the size of the battery box. It's just not large enough for 4 six volt batteries. It will handle 3 twelve volt batteries however. I'll call CC and see if anyone actually knows.

dg

[safrog]

Quick question. Does a 2000 W inverter draw the full 2000 watts or only what is needed o run what is running off the inverter?

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by safrog

Quick question. Does a 2000 W inverter draw the full 2000 watts or only what is needed o run what is running off the inverter?

Only what you plug in up to the 2000 watt rating; BUT

and its a big one; you are dependant on the battery(s) to supply the amperage to "make" the wattage. Once you start pulling serious amps, the capacity to supply amps drops rapidly. This will pull down the voltage and put the inverter into alarm and it will shut down.

Suppose you have a 2000 watt inverter and you run a 1500 watt microwave; you also have a single 12 volt 100 AH battery (will supply 5 amps for 20 hours = 100AH).

1500 watts of AC requires (about) 1500 watts of DC through the inverter or 1500 watts divided by a nominal 12 volts or 125 amps.

The problem is something called the Peukert Effect which is a characteristic of deep cycle batteries that makes it "hard" to get amps out of the thick storage plates. This will reduce the "real capacity" to a tiny fraction of the 5 amp load capacity (see chart - OFF THE CHARTS! - extrapolated to about 15AH).

You can run that 1500 watt microwave (or coffeemaker) for about 7 minutes before it kills a fully charged 100 AH battery and the inverter alarms.

So how do you fix that? Add batteries. That way the 125 amps is "shared" across multiple batteries and no single one sees that much demand.

4 - 100AH 12 volt batteries (Each "sees" 31 amps) so each batteries capacity is only reduced to 55AH (BANK Capacity 220AH or you can run the microwave at 1500 watts for 220/125 or about 105 minutes).

My 2 battery 150AH system can only "feed" a 400 watt inverter and still have enough juice to use other DC items in the camper. (I DO have a 1000 watt inverter BUT I never use much more than 300 watts of its capability when boondocking (Watch TV for a few hours, lights, water pump, maybe some nighttime heat). I still need to recharge my batteries the next day.

Inverter size above the capability of the battery stack is wasted money better spent on a better (smaller) inverter and another battery.

Hope that helps.
Herk

[safrog]

Thank you Herk.. I am only interested in running the refrigerator, which is AC/Propane, while I am on the road. I don't feel safe using propane on the road. When the inverter is in use, it will be plugged in to the tow vehicle, charging the battery (I hope). I know I overbought but I wanted the wife to have the option to use her hairdryer if we stop overnight boondocking. Again, it would be plugged into a running truck. Appreciate the insight.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by safrog

Thank you Herk.. I am only interested in running the refrigerator, which is AC/Propane, while I am on the road. I don't feel safe using propane on the road. When the inverter is in use, it will be plugged in to the tow vehicle, charging the battery (I hope). I know I overbought but I wanted the wife to have the option to use her hairdryer if we stop overnight boondocking. Again, it would be plugged into a running truck. Appreciate the insight.

If I may ask, how do you plan on running the fridge on the inverter while driving? This is not as straight forward as you might think...

As to the hairdryer, you may have similar issues as the amperage needed is much higher than the TV can deliver through the umbilical.

Here is a great article on why alternators make horrible deep discharge battery chargers.

[safrog]

I installed an automatic transfer switch that will switch power to refrig. receptical when not plugged in to shore power.

[Davidg]

I finally heard from Forest River customer service dept about the battery requirements for the 29RE. As I suspected after reading multiple threads on this topic, my trailer is designed for three 12 volt batteries, but FR said that 2 will work...."as long as"...they are wired in parallel. The dealer had wired them separately, and since the inverter does not have a charger built in, that battery would not hold up, plus, when the high current demand of the level up and slides were placed on the system, a single battery simply could not meet that demand.
Anyway, I'm debating whether to buy another battery or see how the system works with just two. The thing is, when the slides AND the level up systems are used within a couple of minutes, that's a huge current demand. But, if I plug the shorepower up beforehand, that will at least add the converters current capacity to the mix.
I could also keep the trailer's umbilical to the truck plugged in as well, although that's minimal recharging.
It would be nice to just have two batteries to maintain, but I don't want to deal with possible voltage drops and the resulting high current induced heat to the hydraulic systems motor.
So.....go with two batteries and a modified set up routine, or buy another battery at $90 and have a third battery to maintain plus another 50 lbs to haul.

Opinions? thoughts? suggestions?

[Joe_GA]

I would get your two batteries wired up properly in parallel and fully charged. Then, disconnect from shore power and operate your slides and level up like you would at a camp site. Check the batteries and see how they held up. If they handle it OK, all is good. If not, spend the money on another batteries and some cables.