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Old 06-01-2017, 05:35 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 325BH View Post
The remote pendant does allow you to manually move into a certain charge mode, however the converter's internal logic will change back as required. Also, the charging logic is in the converter, not the pendant.

The pendant does give nice visual feedback on the charging mode.


I haven't looked for any information on when or what battery voltage the converter automatically goes into "boost" mode or when it goes to "normal" charge rate. After a year of use it felt like it was set too conservatively or for the longer term good of the batteries. That's a good thing most of the time! If I'm dry camping and get back late, I want to run the generator(s) to recharge enough to get thru the night and turn them off to enjoy the peace and quiet.
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:01 PM   #22
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Charging battery

The answer is that you cannot charge faster then the battery can!
Ferst, the amount of Amp is what is charging the battery, not necessarely the voltage!
If you were to bypass the built in regulator in you converter or charger or alternator ,you would destroy the battery in no time.
The regulator sence the battery resistance and adjust the charge accordenly.
So the answer to charge faster is give that time the battery need to recharge and not stress it.
Second way to speed up, is to charge one battery with a external sorce like an external charger or your truck alternator but with booster cable to reduce the resistance and charge the second battery with you TT converter power with a generator.
That way you cut you charging time in two. ( Dont live the battery`s connected in parallel for this !)
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:11 PM   #23
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I'd like to describe what I've done to keep my batteries fully charged while traveling. We have a 31' bumper pull Rockwood. We have 2 6v Trojan T-105 batteries and a whole house inverter that keeps our outlets at 110v so when not hooked to shore power we can run everything except the A/C.

When we travel we usually spend the nights at Walmart and often go for a week without shore power. At first we would always run out of battery power after the 2nd or 3rd night. To solve that I ran a 2 gauge hot wire from my battery to a solenoid (keeps the voltage from traveling backward from the trailer to the truck), solenoid to a 100 amp breaker, from the breaker to the back of the truck. Ran a 4 gauge ground from under the truck to the back to join the hot wire in a heavy duty connector that connects to 4 gauge cables that run to my trailer batteries. Now when we travel our batteries are always 100% charged when we pull in for the night.

In our experience that small gauge wire in the 7 pin connector cannot handle the serious amperage needed to charge heavy duty battery systems.
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:14 PM   #24
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Figured while I was thinking of it I'd do some more research. This is from the PD owners manual. I couldn't get the chart to come out right so deleted it.
The chart below shows the amount of time it took a converter set to three different output voltages to recharge a 125AH (Amp Hour) battery after it was discharged to 10.5 volts.
(Acutal time will vary with battery size)
(Deleted Chart)
14.4 Volts (Boost Mode) – Returned the battery to 90% of full charge in approximately 8 hours. The battery reached full charge in approximately 11 hours.
13.6 Volts (Normal Mode) – Required 40 hours to return the battery to 90% of full charge and 78 hours to reach full charge.
13.2 Volts (Storage Mode) – Required 60 hours to return the battery to 90% of full charge and 100 hours to reach full charge.
Boost(14.4v)
Normal(13.6v)
Storage(13.2v)
Typical Recharge Curves for each operating mode.
Reference
https://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/...%20english.pdf
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:48 PM   #25
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As long as the converter has enough amps to push the max recommend (by battery manufacturer) into the batteries... anything more than that is no good for the batteries.
Wet cell and AGM batteries can accept 20-25% of their rated amp hours as charging current in bulk mode. If you give then 100% current nothing bad happens...they just can't use it so the current will not flow at that rate. Buying a 3 or 4 stage battery charger larger than 25% of your batt capacity makes no economic sense but it will hurt nothing.
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:11 PM   #26
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The numbers that Havasu Bill posted seem very realistic for all multistage converter/chargers and lead acid batteries.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:12 AM   #27
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The numbers that Havasu Bill posted seem very realistic for all multistage converter/chargers and lead acid batteries.
Yes...with a couple of caveats! But first...I've attached the chart Bill couldn't get posted so that it will be easier for others to understand.

First...this is a test which begins from DEAD Battery Flat (10.5V) so you can knock off several hours from the best curve (11 hours) to provide a realistic estimate of what it will take to get to 100% if you don't go below 50%. In a fully off the grid living situation with a battery monitor I found 6 hours to be realistic but I was pushing maximum amps the battery bank could accept in bulk stage AND my wiring was not an impediment to current flow.
Second...this test was done on a 125ah battery. Since there is no such battery (in 20hr. ratings) and there is no qualification given, I'm thinking that this was a 125ah RESERVE CAPACITY battery. While there is no exact conversion ...one usually divides by TWO and adds a little...putting the tested battery in the 70 amp hour range....a group 24 which would be well within the 9200 line of chargers ability to max out in acceptance with any of their models. Those with larger banks should plan on a charger of at least 20% of their battery banks capacity (i.e. 80 amp charger for 400 a/h bank) if they want to be able to charge as fast as the curves show is possible.

Thanks to Bill for providing this. It may come as a shock to those who run their genny's for a couple of hours till the red light says full and then complain that their batteries were crap and failed early!
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:13 AM   #28
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I'm thinking that this was a 125ah RESERVE CAPACITY battery. While there is no exact conversion ...one usually divides by TWO and adds a little...putting the tested battery in the 70 amp hour range....a group 24 which would be well within the 9200 line of chargers ability to max out in acceptance with any of their models.
I believe you meant 125 minutes of reserve capacity.

Reserve Capacity (RC) is the number of minutes a fully charged battery at 80 degrees F (26.7 degrees C) is discharged at 25 amps before the voltage falls below 10.5 volts. To convert Reserve Capacity (RC) to Ampere-Hours at the 25 amp rate, multiple RC by .4167.

Ampere-Hour (or Reserve Capacity) - Pacific Power Batteries - About ...
https://www.pacificpowerbatteries.co...../dcfaq4.html

For a discussion of battery capacity at various discharge rates see this very good article.

How to calculate battery run-time when design equipment using batteries; Battery Technical Resources for Design Engineers from PowerStream

To compare a 20 hour rate AH to a 25 hour rate AH battery, divide the 20 AH rate battery's AH by 0.8 or multiply the 25AH rate battery by 1.25 to get a 20 hour rate AH.

A 125 minute RC @ 25 amps x 0.4167 = 52AH at 25 amps

To convert that to compare it with a battery rated 75AH at the 20 amp rate, multiply the 25 amp rated 52AH by 1.25

52AH x 1.25 = 65 AH at the 20 amp-hour rate.

In this case, the 70AH storage battery would last longer than the battery with an RC of 125 minutes.
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:19 AM   #29
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I've got two batteries in parallel on my camper. I think that means they probably charge at half the rate a single battery would (assuming the charger is outputting the same amperage in both cases).

How many of these can I add before the converter can't put out adequate juice to charge them anymore? I'd kind of like to add some capacity.
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:21 AM   #30
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I believe you meant 125 minutes of reserve capacity.
Yep...wouldn't make sense any other way! Thanks for the catch.
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:59 AM   #31
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I've got two batteries in parallel on my camper. I think that means they probably charge at half the rate a single battery would (assuming the charger is outputting the same amperage in both cases).

How many of these can I add before the converter can't put out adequate juice to charge them anymore? I'd kind of like to add some capacity.
If you have two standard sized (automotive type) batteries then they have between 150 and 200 amp hours as a combined capacity. Lets use the biggest number...200 amp hours.
The converters currently supplied by FR are typically capable of putting out UP TO 50 amps of current. The battery bank as a whole gets charged all together and WHEN Discharged Significantly....is capable of ACCEPTING up to 50 amps of current while in bulk charging phase...so any charger larger than that will NOT deliver any more amps into the charger any more quickly. Of course, if you are also USING 12V stuff on your rig while you are charging...you might benefit from an upgrade....or if you have less than a 50 amp charger now which is quite possible in a 2010 model.
Suggest a 3or4 stage charger from either Progressive with Charge Wizard or from IOTA with IQ4 charging would be good choices if needed. If you don't have a 3 stage or better charger now...then you should get one regardless of the size you presently have to preserve your batteries AND make charging go quicker.
If you plan to add more batteries down the road, you would also want to upgrade. Hope this helps!
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:16 AM   #32
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If you have two standard sized (automotive type) batteries then they have between 150 and 200 amp hours as a combined capacity. Lets use the biggest number...200 amp hours.
The converters currently supplied by FR are typically capable of putting out UP TO 50 amps of current. The battery bank as a whole gets charged all together and WHEN Discharged Significantly....is capable of ACCEPTING up to 50 amps of current while in bulk charging phase...so any charger larger than that will NOT deliver any more amps into the charger any more quickly. Of course, if you are also USING 12V stuff on your rig while you are charging...you might benefit from an upgrade....or if you have less than a 50 amp charger now which is quite possible in a 2010 model.
Suggest a 3or4 stage charger from either Progressive with Charge Wizard or from IOTA with IQ4 charging would be good choices if needed. If you don't have a 3 stage or better charger now...then you should get one regardless of the size you presently have to preserve your batteries AND make charging go quicker.
If you plan to add more batteries down the road, you would also want to upgrade. Hope this helps!
Thanks very much for the info.
I guess I'll be pulling panels tonight to see what converter I have.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:34 AM   #33
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Thanks very much for the info.
I guess I'll be pulling panels tonight to see what converter I have.
Browsing the manuals available at the online owners manual, I think I probably have a PD9245C. I'll double check tonight.

I've got a golf cart with either a bad controller or a bad motor. If I can't fix it relatively inexpensively, I'm thinking of taking the six 6v batteries from it and adding them to the camper instead.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:38 AM   #34
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Thanks very much for the info.

I guess I'll be pulling panels tonight to see what converter I have.


Mine was behind the rear wall in the front pass-thru storage compartment in my 5er.
I moved it to the front compartment by the batteries and added a Perko disconnect switch while I was at it.
The strange thing was the cable was long enough to go into the front compartment which made it easy to do. I'm not sure why FR puts them in inaccessible locations.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:55 AM   #35
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One thing to remember is that the full charge current is only available when the battery bank is below 50% capacity (about 12 volts). Once it crosses that threshold, the charger must start reducing current and charging voltage to avoid overcharging the battery bank. Excess charging current then begins destroying the electrolyte. The sulfuric acid in the electrolyte is converted to water vapor and hydrogen gas which are both vented from the case and the sulphate is permanently deposited on the lead plates (even in the case of "maintenance free" batteries).

The only difference between a maintenance free battery and a flooded cell battery with removable vent caps is the ability to add distilled water to replace the vented water vapor in a "maintenance required" battery. The "Maintenance Free" one gets recycled and replaced when the water gets low ("Magic Eye" goes dark ).
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