Why Do Lights Dim When Plugged to Shore Power

[Deb Phelps]

I have a 2008 Rockwood Signature UltraLite 265SS 5th wheel that doesn't like to run the gas combo fridge and gas heater at the same time (sometimes), even when i am plugged to shore power and my battery is new and good and checked professionally twice since this inconvenience was noticed.

It seems to drain too low to run things simultaneously, occassionally, but noticibly like when its really cold and i need the heat to run more often.
My current converter/charger is a Parallax 7155. Put simply, I learned its dumb. Then a parts dealer who also could speak of smart things mentioned a smart 4 stage progressive dynamics model # 4655L and said it was actually made for mine and one other type camper or model and it would fix this. I didnt order it because i wanted to ask forest river a few qestions first.

Forest River repeatly said they would not advise or give any information about anything except but was put in originally and i have that in writing. He would not answer if it was designed this way and im just now noticing or it could be failing in some way. And why would he not want to speak of smart upgrades seemed abnormal to me.

all i wanted to know was.... was this really designed to not work together in which case buying the same will not fix it but will just make me pay for lesson learned (again) since mine may not be broke or

should i take chances and try upgrade to smart without blessings from forest river and hope the smart upgrade fixes / improves the situation.

Thank you for your kindness in advance.

I have been full timing since May2017 and loving every part of the adventure including sleeping in the cold

[SeaDog]

I'm a little confused on what your problem is. When you say it doesn't like to run at the same time are you talking on gas or 12V? If the 12V side Have you actually tested the converter? If your rig came from the Mfg with the converter installed it was designed to handle all your electric needs regardless if it is a smart charger or not.

[clr]

It could be that your converter is not putting out sufficient power quick enough to not allow the light to dim. But since you have a good battery that is backing up the converter I would think that is not very probable.
I would check the simple stuff first. It may be as simple as a bad (loose) ground connection. I would ensure that the ground is good and remove any paint and such between the electrical connection and the chassis.

[SeaDog]

I should have offered some simple checks. First disconnect from shore power do the lights stay on and bright? If yes connect to shore power any changes? if yes test converter output at the battery with a multimeter should be around 13+ volts if not converter has a problem. Check that all wire connections at the converter, distribution panel and at the battery are high (with shore power off) let the forum know the results of what you find.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Deb Phelps

I have a 2008 Rockwood Signature UltraLite 265SS 5th wheel that doesn't like to run the gas combo fridge and gas heater at the same time (sometimes), even when i am plugged to shore power and my battery is new and good and checked professionally twice since this inconvenience was noticed.

It seems to drain too low to run things simultaneously, occassionally, but noticibly like when its really cold and i need the heat to run more often.
My current converter/charger is a Parallax 7155. Put simply, I learned its dumb. Then a parts dealer who also could speak of smart things mentioned a smart 4 stage progressive dynamics model # 4655L and said it was actually made for mine and one other type camper or model and it would fix this. I didnt order it because i wanted to ask forest river a few qestions first.

Forest River repeatly said they would not advise or give any information about anything except but was put in originally and i have that in writing. He would not answer if it was designed this way and im just now noticing or it could be failing in some way. And why would he not want to speak of smart upgrades seemed abnormal to me.

all i wanted to know was.... was this really designed to not work together in which case buying the same will not fix it but will just make me pay for lesson learned (again) since mine may not be broke or

should i take chances and try upgrade to smart without blessings from forest river and hope the smart upgrade fixes / improves the situation.

Thank you for your kindness in advance.

I have been full timing since May2017 and loving every part of the adventure including sleeping in the cold

Just so I understand you. You're plugged into shore power. You're running your Refridgerator and your gas furnace. And some lights of some sort are dimming. Check the 20 amp breaker labeled Converter and see if it is on. I'm going to assume you are talking about 12-volt ceiling lights. REF uses VERY little 12-volt power when on gas or electric. (think NO LOAD) Your furnace uses 12 volts for the fan only and ignition. Have you cleaned your battery connections? Was the new battery 'LOAD TESTED"? Just reading voltage is not enough. Is your pedestal feeding you a MIN of 110 volts.? 127 is Ideal.

[Deb Phelps]

Originally Posted by SeaDog

I'm a little confused on what your problem is. When you say it doesn't like to run at the same time are you talking on gas or 12V? If the 12V side Have you actually tested the converter? If your rig came from the Mfg with the converter installed it was designed to handle all your electric needs regardless if it is a smart charger or not.

im plug to shore, fridge on automatic to choose what it wants to run with, bright internal light and gas furnance comes on fine. next or some other time, internal fridge light very dim (as well as other wired in stuff ) furnance can't kick on when it tries.. converter has been tested and if course it doesnt act up for fixer person.

[Deb Phelps]

Originally Posted by clr

It could be that your converter is not putting out sufficient power quick enough to not allow the light to dim. But since you have a good battery that is backing up the converter I would think that is not very probable.
I would check the simple stuff first. It may be as simple as a bad (loose) ground connection. I would ensure that the ground is good and remove any paint and such between the electrical connection and the chassis.

ground on battery? i will check thst thanks

[Deb Phelps]

Originally Posted by SeaDog

I should have offered some simple checks. First disconnect from shore power do the lights stay on and bright? If yes connect to shore power any changes? if yes test converter output at the battery with a multimeter should be around 13+ volts if not converter has a problem. Check that all wire connections at the converter, distribution panel and at the battery are high (with shore power off) let the forum know the results of what you find.

that was done before chrustmas and no problem showed up at the moment of the test.

[Kaadk]

Originally Posted by Deb Phelps

I have a 2008 Rockwood Signature UltraLite 265SS 5th wheel that doesn't like to run the gas combo fridge and gas heater at the same time (sometimes), even when i am plugged to shore power and my battery is new and good and checked professionally twice since this inconvenience was noticed.

It seems to drain too low to run things simultaneously, occassionally, but noticibly like when its really cold and i need the heat to run more often.
My current converter/charger is a Parallax 7155. Put simply, I learned its dumb. Then a parts dealer who also could speak of smart things mentioned a smart 4 stage progressive dynamics model # 4655L and said it was actually made for mine and one other type camper or model and it would fix this. I didnt order it because i wanted to ask forest river a few qestions first.

Forest River repeatly said they would not advise or give any information about anything except but was put in originally and i have that in writing. He would not answer if it was designed this way and im just now noticing or it could be failing in some way. And why would he not want to speak of smart upgrades seemed abnormal to me.

all i wanted to know was.... was this really designed to not work together in which case buying the same will not fix it but will just make me pay for lesson learned (again) since mine may not be broke or

should i take chances and try upgrade to smart without blessings from forest river and hope the smart upgrade fixes / improves the situation.

Thank you for your kindness in advance.

I have been full timing since May2017 and loving every part of the adventure including sleeping in the cold

So, if I understand correctly, you're looking for somebody to validate whether or not the replacement converter will work in your rig? If your dealer says it'll work, and you still have concerns, just get the dealer to say in writing that they'll back their work.

FR won't be able to do that for you. FR, as you noticed, can only validate what they've installed works. We do the same kind of thing at my work. We publish a list of known platforms that we've tested our software on. We can only speak to what we've tested against, we have no way of knowing whether or not it will work with something we haven't tested, so we can't back it if it's untested.

[Deb Phelps]

Originally Posted by cavie

Just so I understand you. You're plugged into shore power. You're running your Refridgerator and your gas furnace. And some lights of some sort are dimming. Check the 20 amp breaker labeled Converter and see if it is on. I'm going to assume you are talking about 12-volt ceiling lights. REF uses VERY little 12-volt power when on gas or electric. (think NO LOAD) Your furnace uses 12 volts for the fan only and ignition. Have you cleaned your battery connections? Was the new battery 'LOAD TESTED"? Just reading voltage is not enough. Is your pedestal feeding you a MIN of 110 volts.? 127 is Ideal.

yes.to shore with surge info reading fine
breakers lol i check them for heat too now that you reminded me one time it was hot to touch when anomilie was happenening
right on ceiling lights
battery was checked inside unit by pro in december, then week or so ago i took it out to different pro to load test etc all is fine and both could have sold me a new one becsuse i really wanted it to be as simple as that

[Deb Phelps]

Originally Posted by Kaadk

So, if I understand correctly, you're looking for somebody to validate whether or not the replacement converter will work in your rig? If your dealer says it'll work, and you still have concerns, just get the dealer to say in writing that they'll back their work.

FR won't be able to do that for you. FR, as you noticed, can only validate what they've installed works. We do the same kind of thing at my work. We publish a list of known platforms that we've tested our software on. We can only speak to what we've tested against, we have no way of knowing whether or not it will work with something we haven't tested, so we can't back it if it's untested.

yes on validation i was hoping someone had the exact same thing going on and would know "exactly" lol

so with much ado i believe the bottom line may be: replace with original equipment and maybe have the same problem sooner or later, for half price of or
aftermarket upgrade maybe fix this issue but gain a different one/set of issues, oh my i never was good at making decissions.

so am i allowed to change topics and ask if anyone has installed and used a 4 stage smart converter? or is there a thread here i missed about that i can read up on?

[jeff64]

Knowing that your camper is 10 years old and knowing that almost everything except ACs, microwaves and TVs run on 12 vdc and knowing that the frame of the TT is the common ground connection at some time for every 12 vdc "appliance" and knowing that the hacks that assemble these products take a drilled hole, a crimp connector and a screw, assemble it and make a connection that will degrade over time and exposure to the elements. That is where I would focus before replacing too many components. Bring those connections back to shiny metal,shiny terminals and hardware. Use dielectric grease on reassembly adding a "star washer" can improve your connections. Once you verify some of these items when you go to testing components and outputs you will get a more believeable indication. JMHO!

[Deb Phelps]

Originally Posted by jeff64

Knowing that your camper is 10 years old and knowing that almost everything except ACs, microwaves and TVs run on 12 vdc and knowing that the frame of the TT is the common ground connection at some time for every 12 vdc "appliance" and knowing that the hacks that assemble these products take a drilled hole, a crimp connector and a screw, assemble it and make a connection that will degrade over time and exposure to the elements. That is where I would focus before replacing too many components. Bring those connections back to shiny metal,shiny terminals and hardware. Use dielectric grease on reassembly adding a "star washer" can improve your connections. Once you verify some of these items when you go to testing components and outputs you will get a more believeable indication. JMHO!

well said, i am waiting for daylight and a wee bit of warmth to go see if i can figure out what a ground wire looks like

[Deb Phelps]

Originally Posted by jeff64

Knowing that your camper is 10 years old and knowing that almost everything except ACs, microwaves and TVs run on 12 vdc and knowing that the frame of the TT is the common ground connection at some time for every 12 vdc "appliance" and knowing that the hacks that assemble these products take a drilled hole, a crimp connector and a screw, assemble it and make a connection that will degrade over time and exposure to the elements. That is where I would focus before replacing too many components. Bring those connections back to shiny metal,shiny terminals and hardware. Use dielectric grease on reassembly adding a "star washer" can improve your connections. Once you verify some of these items when you go to testing components and outputs you will get a more believeable indication. JMHO!

i just want to add for its age it is gorgeous and homey with subdued livable colors double slide rear great room with entertainment center and fireplace i fell in love at first sight. just this one little quirk

[Bama Rambler]

There are plenty of people that have upgraded their convertor to a PD (Progressive Dynamics) model, and all seem to be really happy with them.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the upgrade, if the converter truly is your problem (and it's looking like it is). Since you've had the battery load tested, I'd say that it isn't the problem.

One thing I'd do is check the incoming power the next time the lights/furnace act up to make sure it isn't causing the problem.

[Deb Phelps]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

There are plenty of people that have upgraded their convertor to a PD (Progressive Dynamics) model, and all seem to be really happy with them.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the upgrade, if the converter truly is your problem (and it's looking like it is). Since you've had the battery load tested, I'd say that it isn't the problem.

One thing I'd do is check the incoming power the next time the lights/furnace act up to make sure it isn't causing the problem.

i do check the surge protector device i purchased to detect such things. the fix it guy in LasCruses showed me how that worked. yes after a storm and the park lost power is showed dif numbers so i flipped the breaker and it read fine again but my issue was as it was

[Deb Phelps]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

There are plenty of people that have upgraded their convertor to a PD (Progressive Dynamics) model, and all seem to be really happy with them.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the upgrade, if the converter truly is your problem (and it's looking like it is). Since you've had the battery load tested, I'd say that it isn't the problem.

One thing I'd do is check the incoming power the next time the lights/furnace act up to make sure it isn't causing the problem.

thank you! Sounds like i have hope

[Tom48]

Originally Posted by Deb Phelps

I have a 2008 Rockwood Signature UltraLite 265SS 5th wheel that doesn't like to run the gas combo fridge and gas heater at the same time (sometimes), even when i am plugged to shore power and my battery is new and good and checked professionally twice since this inconvenience was noticed.

It seems to drain too low to run things simultaneously, occassionally, but noticibly like when its really cold and i need the heat to run more often.
My current converter/charger is a Parallax 7155. Put simply, I learned its dumb. Then a parts dealer who also could speak of smart things mentioned a smart 4 stage progressive dynamics model # 4655L and said it was actually made for mine and one other type camper or model and it would fix this. I didnt order it because i wanted to ask forest river a few qestions first.

Forest River repeatly said they would not advise or give any information about anything except but was put in originally and i have that in writing. He would not answer if it was designed this way and im just now noticing or it could be failing in some way. And why would he not want to speak of smart upgrades seemed abnormal to me.

all i wanted to know was.... was this really designed to not work together in which case buying the same will not fix it but will just make me pay for lesson learned (again) since mine may not be broke or

should i take chances and try upgrade to smart without blessings from forest river and hope the smart upgrade fixes / improves the situation.

Thank you for your kindness in advance.

I have been full timing since May2017 and loving every part of the adventure including sleeping in the cold

The frig, in propane only mode uses very little 12 v current. In older times some were 3 way and could be on 12 v only and that eats up a lot of battery. Heater is also a big consumer. If this happens off hook ups thenDO YOU HAVE ENOUGH BATTERY?

IF IT IS ON HOOK UP only then it may be poor connection or connections somewhere. The negative battery to frame ground and main power panel to frame ground would be my first suspect.

At eight years of age on the old rig, we had that problem and I could see it when even the led lights would dim when the water pump came on. There were bad ground connections on both ends.

This forum and probably the manufacturers web site an YouTube will probably also have help specific to your existing converter/charger. A good multimeter and application of logic and with testing voltge under load at various locations and you can find it.

Until you check the whole rig for resistance at all the connections, unless you find that the existing charger is not putting out the power, I would not replace it. If and when you have to replace it I would definitely go for a three phase for some claim four phase unit. Lots to can be learned about rv battery systems.

Good luck

[cavie]

I think you are having problems with the park power. Do not change the converter untill you know for sure where the trouble lies. Ask around the park and see if anybody has an EMS plugged in and see if they noticed any power problems. It is much different than a Surge protector.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by Deb Phelps

i do check the surge protector device i purchased to detect such things. the fix it guy in LasCruses showed me how that worked. yes after a storm and the park lost power is showed dif numbers so i flipped the breaker and it read fine again but my issue was as it was

A picture is worth 1000 words, right?

Deb, I sense that you are somewhat baffled about the "ground connection" that others are mentioning. Here's a short explanation and some pictures.

Electric current flows in a circle; out of the battery, through the load (appliance, lamp, etc.) and back into the battery. That's why it's called a "circuit." In some instances, instead of running two wires to each load, they connect one wire through a switch to the load. The other side of the battery is connected to the vehicle frame, the other wire from each load is connected to the vehicle frame. Thus the frame carries the return ("ground return")current for everything. This is almost universal in cars and light trucks. In campers and trailers with wood frames, this technique is could be used, but a lot of loads use two wires. Class A, B, and C units are likely to use "ground return."

Here are some pictures of what it looks like. Note that the "star washer" should be placed between the wire lug (eyelet) and the vehicle, not directly under the bolt head. This is so the sharp teeth will cut into the metal and make good contact.

Larry