Air bags?

CedarCreekWoody · 05-13-2017, 05:36 PM

I'm thinking I need to add air bags to my Ram 1500 crew cab. I am fine on weights and pulling power, but the rear suspension is "spongy" with my new trailer. It has too much rebound bounce when hitting road dips or bumps. Are air bags an improvement for this? If so, any suggestions on what, and where to get it? I've not messed with anything similar since putting on air shocks as a kid.

Thanks!

SidecarFlip · 05-13-2017, 06:01 PM

Rebound has little to do with air bags. You need heavy duty shocks. Don't you have coil springs? Coils are noted for 'spongy' ride. No friction dampening like leaves.

I look at coil springs as something to be on a luxury car, not a truck.

CedarCreekWoody · 05-13-2017, 06:20 PM

Yes, the Ram has coil springs. Perhaps heavy duty shocks would help more than the air bags. Interesting thought to consider.

emm-dee · 05-13-2017, 06:23 PM

I put the Airlift 1000 series bags in my Ram 1500. World of difference!! I didn't really notice bouncing prior to the install. The biggest difference is eliminating side to side movement. They only cost under $90 and it takes less than one hour to install. I did the wireless compressor ($290) but that's because I'm lazy. The bags work just as well without the compressor.

If you haven't already done it get rid of the stock Goodyear SRA series tires. Get a good E-load tire. The SRA tires make China bombs look good ( but at least they don't have a blowout reputation). The sidewalls on them induce a lot of stability problems.

woodyrock1 · 05-13-2017, 06:51 PM

I went with Timberins on my 1500 when I was using it for towing. I opted for them fore quick easy install because I knew I was going to upgrade TV.

2Evil4U · 05-13-2017, 07:04 PM

OEM shocks on my RAM were junk at 40k. Replaced with Bilsteins. Much better.

SidecarFlip · 05-13-2017, 08:28 PM

Keep in mind the dynamics of coil springs over leaves. One thing, a coil spring is cheaper to manufacture, not withstanding.

Leaf springs, even with plastic spacers between the leafs have a certain amount of internal friction which equates to dampening suspension movement while coil springs do not.

Consequently, it's more up to the shock absorber to provide the rebound dampening than with leaf springs.

Ever see a car going down the road with the back end bouncing up and down (old clunker)...?? That car has coil springs and shot shocks. Coil spring = pogo stick.

Why you rarely find leaf springs on automobiles today. Coils rid better because there is no 'starting friction', hence the ride better.

Get yourself a set of premiun shocks with extra rebound dampening and be happy.

emm-dee · 05-13-2017, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidecarFlip

Keep in mind the dynamics of coil springs over leaves. One thing, a coil spring is cheaper to manufacture, not withstanding.

Leaf springs, even with plastic spacers between the leafs have a certain amount of internal friction which equates to dampening suspension movement while coil springs do not.

Consequently, it's more up to the shock absorber to provide the rebound dampening than with leaf springs.

Ever see a car going down the road with the back end bouncing up and down (old clunker)...?? That car has coil springs and shot shocks. Coil spring = pogo stick.

Why you rarely find leaf springs on automobiles today. Coils rid better because there is no 'starting friction', hence the ride better.

Get yourself a set of premiun shocks with extra rebound dampening and be happy.

Very true, but you can put a million bucks worth of shocks on the rear end and it won't do a thing to prevent the sway inherent to coil springs. Don't have a clue how they do it but the air bags definitely eliminate that sway.

There is a very, very rough RR crossing near my house. I've closely examined my rear dash cam videos and crossing the tracks at 30 mph with the airbags empty it's very easy to see the left/right sway motion. Same scenario with 10 pounds in the bags shows extremely minor sway. But, once I set them at 15 to 35 pounds there is absolutely no sway to be seen or felt.

As far as the bouncing goes, I've never experienced any of it except under hard acceleration. The hemi engine will definitely cause rear wheel spin if you floor the accelerator from a standing stop. When the rear wheels break loose the rear end of the truck jumps up and down almost to the point of being violent. Again, I don't know how they do it but 15 or more psi in the airbags will completely eliminate that "bounce". My neighbor has a '13 Ram (coils) and he installed Bilstein shocks. His truck has the same hard acceleration wheel spin bounce as mine with the OEM shocks. The OEM shocks now have 45k miles and plan to keep them a little longer.

SidecarFlip · 05-14-2017, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emm-dee

Very true, but you can put a million bucks worth of shocks on the rear end and it won't do a thing to prevent the sway inherent to coil springs. Don't have a clue how they do it but the air bags definitely eliminate that sway.

There is a very, very rough RR crossing near my house. I've closely examined my rear dash cam videos and crossing the tracks at 30 mph with the airbags empty it's very easy to see the left/right sway motion. Same scenario with 10 pounds in the bags shows extremely minor sway. But, once I set them at 15 to 35 pounds there is absolutely no sway to be seen or felt.

As far as the bouncing goes, I've never experienced any of it except under hard acceleration. The hemi engine will definitely cause rear wheel spin if you floor the accelerator from a standing stop. When the rear wheels break loose the rear end of the truck jumps up and down almost to the point of being violent. Again, I don't know how they do it but 15 or more psi in the airbags will completely eliminate that "bounce". My neighbor has a '13 Ram (coils) and he installed Bilstein shocks. His truck has the same hard acceleration wheel spin bounce as mine with the OEM shocks. The OEM shocks now have 45k miles and plan to keep them a little longer.

That is due to the fact that the axle is doing what is referred to as wrapping up (torque induced hop) from hard acceleration, that happens with leaf springs as well. What happens is the axle jumps because there are no physical restraints to keep it from jumping and air bags migh alleviate that to a point, but 'Traction Bars eliminate it. Traction bars keep the fore and aft movement of the axle under control, what drag racers use.

Air bags are quite a bit more expensive than a good set of shocks and harder to install. For casual use, under payload capacity, I'd go with the shocks over bags. Remember, the OEM installs shocks that yield the best ride at the cheapest price, not a shock that will control what is called 'jounce' or what I call the 'pogo stick' effect.

Having said that, I would never consider any pickup truck without leaf springs on the rear. Myself, I'm into load carrying capacity and not ride. I have a cat with coil springs if I want ride comfort, my truck is for hauling, but then I have a 1 ton diesel 4x4.

Coil springs are much less expensive to manufacture that multiple leaf spring packs but leaf spring packs provide better axle control and load carrying capacity plus your shocks will last longer because the leaf packs have inherent starting friction (jounce control) where the coils do not.

I'm not a Mopar person, don't have any desire to own one. FCA and it's prior owners use the buzzword 'Hemi' to describe their engine, which is really a conventional engine with a hemispherical head (valve and combustion chamber design). 'Hemi' is a registered trademark. In reality, a number of manufacturers use a hemispherical head / valve arrangement now, including the Ford Eco-Boost engine but they cannot advertise it as such because FCA owns the trademark rights.

It's all buzzword stuff and really means zip to the consumer. It's all about flame path and gas flow and everyone uses it anyway, just cannot state it on the badge on the side of the vehicle.

Neither here nor there concerning rear suspension dynamics.

emm-dee · 05-14-2017, 07:38 AM

Agreed on all points except cost. A pair of quality shocks will be north of $150 while coil airbags are about $85. Haven't installed any shocks for a few years but the airbag is a very easy install requiring less than an hour.

Brewhedd · 05-14-2017, 07:46 AM

I use the Airlift system with onboard compressor. They come in handy to raise or lower when hooking up. Also nice for adjusting ride or for a load. I can't really use them for towing because they affect the load distribution/sway hitch setup.

SidecarFlip · 05-14-2017, 08:00 AM

My issue with air bags (air bladders) inside a coil spring is the fact that the coils rub on the bag itself (or on the shield) and eventually wear through. Reason is, the steel coils abrade the thin rubber bag or shield, using road grime as a abrasive.

I would NEVER mount an air bladder inside a coil spring. While it may be a simple procedure, it has a definite lifespan, much shorter than a remote mounted bag and stool assembly.

I'm sure it's done everyday (internal mount). I would not do it.

Blackrock · 05-14-2017, 08:12 AM

Just go ahead and install the bags in your coils. I did and it made a world of difference. So far most of the advice you got was just speculation and no personal experience.

Kenny kustom · 05-14-2017, 08:35 AM

When ram first started putting coils in the back of their trucks I was working at a dodge dealer.
We also sold power sports.
The first time we put a quad in the back of one of those new rams... we knew we had a problem.
We did tons of bags while I was there.

emm-dee · 05-14-2017, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidecarFlip

My issue with air bags (air bladders) inside a coil spring is the fact that the coils rub on the bag itself (or on the shield) and eventually wear through. Reason is, the steel coils abrade the thin rubber bag or shield, using road grime as a abrasive.

I would NEVER mount an air bladder inside a coil spring. While it may be a simple procedure, it has a definite lifespan, much shorter than a remote mounted bag and stool assembly.

I'm sure it's done everyday (internal mount). I would not do it.

The Airlift brand comes with a lifetime warranty. I don't plan to keep any vehicle long enough to wear them out.

guyster · 05-14-2017, 08:51 AM

Up grade the shocks and bag it. E rated tires and you will smile all the way to the camp ground.....

SidecarFlip · 05-14-2017, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emm-dee

The Airlift brand comes with a lifetime warranty. I don't plan to keep any vehicle long enough to wear them out.

Unlike most people today, I buy a vehicle for the long term, IOW, I run them until they run no more. One, I don't like payment books and two, if I'm paying thousands of dollars for a vehicle, I want that vehicle to be worth it's salt.

Last truck I bought was in 1997 and I still have it and it's in mint condition because I believe in maintaining any vehicle. Same with my cars. Just bought a 2014 Focus off lease and I plan on running it until it falls apart or I die.

Not about to pay 65 grand for a new pickup truck anyway.

You all can finance the auto companies and lending institutions, I'm not... and I paid cash for my RV last year.

They should rename the 1500 Ram's 'Sheep'....

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