Castle Rock brand trailer tires?

[Airdale]

Vehicle owner manuals are provided by FR for all new purchases. Here's a quote from the FR generic on-line 2016 edition;

"Manufacturers' literature is supplied with the owner's information packet in newly delivered units. Only those products and options, which are installed on your camper, will be included in this packet. If you have questions regarding this literature, discuss them with your dealer during the pre-delivery inspection and report any literature shortage at that time."

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Vehicle owner manuals are provided by FR for all new purchases. Here's a quote from the FR generic on-line 2016 edition;

"Manufacturers' literature is supplied with the owner's information packet in newly delivered units. Only those products and options, which are installed on your camper, will be included in this packet. If you have questions regarding this literature, discuss them with your dealer during the pre-delivery inspection and report any literature shortage at that time."

Nice weasel words there. Wonder how we are suppose to know when some literature is missing when we get the new RV. Kind of a Catch 22 situation.

For example:
I was suppose to receive the special awning strap with the new RV This info was buried in pg 4 of the info on the awning. Because I didn't read every page of every document and apparently missed the word "provided", so following the business model of FR i.e. "Blame the customer whenever possible" my friendly dealer initially told me it was my fault for not knowing that I was suppose to get a strap at delivery and because I was 13 days out of warranty he expected me to pay for the strap.

Not sure if I have ever seen specifications on wheels for any vehicle. If/when tires have warranty coverage, I have often seen a separate booklet with the tire warranty.

So IMO, no literature = no warranty so only option available to owners of FR products is to file complaint with NHTSA whenever a tire fails.

Bottom liner with FR is No literature on tires (including warranty) means there is no warranty on tires>

[Palms]

I just got my '17 mini lite 1905 and in the packet there's a lot of info on the tire warranties. Three or 4 different pieces all talking about the no questions asked guarantee for new replacement tire sent directly to you and flat rate labor allowance. Maybe they heard everyone bot it is guaranteed by Lionshead. All my tires are 16 manufacture which is when this new policy started.

[danjoan]

Castle Rock tire info:

Castle Rock Radial Tire

[DJ_Cobb]

I just wanted to post a positive review of my tires that came with my new 5th Wheel 16 Months ago.

I was skeptical at first of the quality as well, but they have held up great. I recently had my first tread separation, but my tires were running at 60PSI instead of 80 on the third day of my most recent trip. Again, we have already towed at least 16,000 miles in the last 16 months with lots of tight turns and hot summer towing.

My 5th wheel weighs about 12,000 lbs loaded and the tires are ST 235 80 16 load rating E (3,400 lbs per tire). I still have great tread left on all three tires and the one that blew, the belt separated. But theories, there does not seam to be any other unusual wear or cause for concern.

I took a picture of the tread separation and the DOT number from my tires. I am keeping the others in place until this spring, when its time for replacements and the axle bearing job.

Happy Camping!
-DJ Cobb
Alexandria, VA

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by DJ_Cobb

I just wanted to post a positive review of my tires that came with my new 5th Wheel 16 Months ago.

I was skeptical at first of the quality as well, but they have held up great. I recently had my first tread separation, but my tires were running at 60PSI instead of 80 on the third day of my most recent trip. Again, we have already towed at least 16,000 miles in the last 16 months with lots of tight turns and hot summer towing.

My 5th wheel weighs about 12,000 lbs loaded and the tires are ST 235 80 16 load rating E (3,400 lbs per tire). I still have great tread left on all three tires and the one that blew, the belt separated. But theories, there does not seam to be any other unusual wear or cause for concern.

I took a picture of the tread separation and the DOT number from my tires. I am keeping the others in place until this spring, when its time for replacements and the axle bearing job.

Happy Camping!
-DJ Cobb
Alexandria, VA

Not sure how to consider a Tread Separation part of a "Positive Review". Sometimes such a failure can cause thousands of dollars damage. Normally I would suggest you file a complaint with NHTSA but since you know you were not running the proper inflation for the tire I see no reason to blame the tire for the failure.

If the other tires were also at 60 psi then you need to ensure the tires are scrapped and not re-soled to someone else.

[DJ_Cobb]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Not sure how to consider a Tread Separation part of a "Positive Review". Sometimes such a failure can cause thousands of dollars damage. Normally I would suggest you file a complaint with NHTSA but since you know you were not running the proper inflation for the tire I see no reason to blame the tire for the failure.

If the other tires were also at 60 psi then you need to ensure the tires are scrapped and not re-soled to someone else.

Positive in the sense that I have crossed the US a few times with them without incident until my last trip where I did not properly inflate them.

As they are an unknown entity, I thought I'd post a review with substance (which many forums are lacking) instead of conjecture in order to give a qualified opinion to anyone else who might have concerns about them. Usually I am diligent in checking the PSI, but got into a hurry and did not and had a tire failure. But I sure put thousands and thousands of miles on them, before the failure on my last trip at my own fault (all the other tires were at 60, instead of the required 80 psi).

Anyway, for anyone else who may have them, they worked very well for me. 16,000 miles and hard use = not terrible Chinese tires from the manufacturer; not the best, but not terrible.

Thanks for the advice on scrapping them when it become time to replace them before my next trip in two months. However, I am sure anyone who is buying used trailer tires considers the risks involved when making such a purchase.

Please message me if you can recommend a solid replacement?

Stay Safe,
-DJ Cobb

[23dks]

I had high hopes for the ST225/75R15 113L LRD Castle Rock tires on my Wildcat Maxx. Based on scale weights the driver side tires were loaded to 70% of capacity and the passenger side tires were loaded to 50% of capacity so I had some margin. They have the L speed rating (75 mph) so I thought they would be designed with a little more margin than standard ST tires. I have had a TPMS since the trailer was new. As long as I have owned the trailer the tires had never been run under inflated. They had never hit a curb or road hazard. They had never been towed faster than 65 mph. They hadn't shown any sign of separation such as bulging. At 1830 miles and four months of service I lost the driver side rear tire. I changed the tire and stopped at a Discount Tire for a replacement tire. I had the trailer jacked up so we could spin the tires and found bulges on two more tires and the fourth was not round but was not bulging yet. I ended up purchasing four new tires.

When the tires were new I did notice the tread was not flat but concave at full inflation pressure of 65 psig as mentioned previously in this thread. Here is a picture of the spare with the concave tread and a picture of the blowout. Luckily the blowout did no damage to the trailer.




There was a sliver lining. I filed a report with NHTSA as Tireman9 recommends when I returned from camping. Then work had me traveling for a few weeks so I didn't have time to contact Castle Rock about warranty coverage. Castle Rock must have seen my report on the NHTSA website because they contacted me with a warranty package and provided an acceptable warranty settlement.

[RoadNomad]

I have had my 2017 23FBDS Ultra Light since November of 16, I completed a 5k trip in December with no tire incidences.

According to the DOT my 225/75R15 Tires were manufactured the 24 week of 2016 by Hangzhou Zhongce Rubber CO, according to the web the number 1 manufacture of tires in China. These tires are load range D with an 8 ply rating 75mph speed and appear to be in good condition other then the tel tale concave these tires all seem to have.

Now the big question, Should I replace them now or put on a few more miles and watch carefully? Getting ready for another long trip in March and don't want this to be a problem.

What's really bugging me is most trailer tires (ie Carlisle, Goodyear, Towmaster) that are all being manufactured in China with a few exceptions.
Some with speed and other ratings not as good as mine.

Does it make much sense to replace a China tire with another unless your getting something better? I read an previous post about someone who got 16000 miles on his tires before the blew out with some possible connection to a low tire condition. I do find it interesting that being only 20 lbs down would cause that. Would the same situation happen to say a Michelin?

I was looking at the Carlisle Radial Trail HD which has an "E" load rating vs the "D" I have now but again its made in China. Since my GVWR is 6600 and my tires are rated to 9200 I am well under loaded and the E would be overkill (which I have no problem with).

I just purchased a TPMS system, since I need to have the valve stems replaced with metal I was leaning towards having the Castle Rocks balanced and filled with Nitrogen and running them a bit longer.

Is this a waste of money, should I just say the hell with it and by the new China Carlisle's with the E ratings or what? Honestly, if I could buy a Michelin tire the size of what I have this would not even be a topic for discussion. I don't have the clearance needed for a 16" wheel so that's out.

One thing I do want to mention is a phone call to Forest River today did reveal some interesting info. Apparently FR switched over to higher load rated tires the end of last year and have had a drastic decrease in reported tire failures. This makes me wonder if the Castle Rocks were overrated to begin with.

Anyway, suggestion are welcome, I guess I would be unhappy if I had a blowout on the original tires, then again I would be VERY unhappy if I had a blowout on some new tires I dropped 500+ bucks on All because China doesn't know how to make good quality tires. One last thing, I made a call to Lionshead/Castle Rock and left a message for their tech support.
My call was not returned... Not surprised.

Dan

[Judygo]

Dan,

I think the best bet is to install the tire monitoring system, because a friend told us he has blown out 2x while pulling his trailer and never even heard the blowout!! (He really damaged his TT). With a way to see tire pressure at least you have some idea if a tire is getting low.

What hitch do you use? We are seriously looking at the ProPride3 1400. We haven't made our first trip and we have heard some scary storis about "suck and sway" on the road.

Judy in Vegas

[kandl]

Originally Posted by RoadNomad

...All because China doesn't know how to make good quality tires.

Not true. Six seasons and 30K plus kms on tires (Duro) manufactured in the PRC. One of these tires was patched four yrs ago (nail) and is none the worse for wear. Others in this forum have had similar experience with this tire brand.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by RoadNomad

All because China doesn't know how to make good quality tires.
Dan

I'd like to interject a point here. Not defending anyone, but I'm a guy who has had to deal with Chinese manufactured items quite a bit in my career and I can say that the Chinese can build some of the best quality goods you will find on the planet. Your Iphone is considered state of the art as far as quality goes. The image of a couple guys in a dirt-floored hut with a waterwheel as a generator banging out tires is about as far from the truth as you can get. China has some truly impressive manufacturing facilities.

Where the impression that China=Junk comes from is that they will only build in as much quality as the customer pays for. And that is function of cost. China can (and does) make tires as good as any Michelin. However, the cost will be comparable to the Michelin as well. When you are willing to forgo stringent raw material inspection, in-process quality control, and approaching-zero reject rate, then you can make a cheaper tire.

To illustrate the point. A high quality tire might have a specification that it is vulcanized at exactly 177 degrees C. A lower-cost tire might have a range that is allowed 175-180 C. A bottom-feeder may say 170-180. Sometimes temperature control gets tricky, and if they made a batch of the Top-quality tires and found out the press only got to 175 degrees, they would scrap the whole run. But for lower quality tires, they would be like "Eh... good enough. Ship 'em". Like I said, the reject rate approaches zero, not because they make them better, but because they will accept more variation as 'ok'.

I'm not afraid of Chinese products simply because it's Chinese. Its when its when companies use China to forgo quality for price is when things go downhill quickly.

Tim

[SidecarFlip]

My preference is to not ever buy or install Chinese made tires on anything, not even my lawnmower. I don't mind paying a bit more for domestic rubber. It's peace of mind.

Buy cheap and pay the price in the end.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by 23dks

I had high hopes for the ST225/75R15 113L LRD Castle Rock tires on my Wildcat Maxx. Based on scale weights the driver side tires were loaded to 70% of capacity and the passenger side tires were loaded to 50% of capacity so I had some margin. They have the L speed rating (75 mph) so I thought they would be designed with a little more margin than standard ST tires. I have had a TPMS since the trailer was new. As long as I have owned the trailer the tires had never been run under inflated. They had never hit a curb or road hazard. They had never been towed faster than 65 mph. They hadn't shown any sign of separation such as bulging. At 1830 miles and four months of service I lost the driver side rear tire. I changed the tire and stopped at a Discount Tire for a replacement tire. I had the trailer jacked up so we could spin the tires and found bulges on two more tires and the fourth was not round but was not bulging yet. I ended up purchasing four new tires.

When the tires were new I did notice the tread was not flat but concave at full inflation pressure of 65 psig as mentioned previously in this thread. Here is a picture of the spare with the concave tread and a picture of the blowout. Luckily the blowout did no damage to the trailer.




There was a sliver lining. I filed a report with NHTSA as Tireman9 recommends when I returned from camping. Then work had me traveling for a few weeks so I didn't have time to contact Castle Rock about warranty coverage. Castle Rock must have seen my report on the NHTSA website because they contacted me with a warranty package and provided an acceptable warranty settlement.

In general I would suggest that concave tread is not a good sign as in many tires it could indicate a less than robust construction in the shoulder of the tire.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by RoadNomad

I have had my 2017 23FBDS Ultra Light since November of 16, I completed a 5k trip in December with no tire incidences.

According to the DOT my 225/75R15 Tires were manufactured the 24 week of 2016 by Hangzhou Zhongce Rubber CO, according to the web the number 1 manufacture of tires in China. These tires are load range D with an 8 ply rating 75mph speed and appear to be in good condition other then the tel tale concave these tires all seem to have.

Do you mean your tires are ST225/75R15 113/108 L tires? or do they say something else? #1 may be in sales volume. I am not aware of any cross company quality comparison data. The load formula for ST type tires was based on a 65 mph max speed. To run 75 you need to add 10 psi to the table inflation number.

Now the big question, Should I replace them now or put on a few more miles and watch carefully? Getting ready for another long trip in March and don't want this to be a problem.

What's really bugging me is most trailer tires (ie Carlisle, Goodyear, Towmaster) that are all being manufactured in China with a few exceptions.
Some with speed and other ratings not as good as mine.

Does it make much sense to replace a China tire with another unless your getting something better? I read an previous post about someone who got 16000 miles on his tires before the blew out with some possible connection to a low tire condition. Without knowing the actual load on the 16,000 mile tires it is impossible to know if being 20 psi low means the tire was 10% overloaded or 40% overloaded. I do find it interesting that being only 20 lbs down would cause that. Would the same situation happen to say a Michelin? When tires loose 20% of the rated inflation needed for eh load they are considered "flat" for many warranty work. 20 psi on a 65 psi tire is "only" 30% low. Would you be surprised if an engine failed is run 30% low on water or oil?

I was looking at the Carlisle Radial Trail HD which has an "E" load rating vs the "D" I have now but again its made in China. Since my GVWR is 6600 and my tires are rated to 9200 I am well under loaded and the E would be overkill (which I have no problem with). GVWR is not the same as actual measured load. Also very few RV have load balanced 50/50 between axles or even 50/50 end to end on any one axle. Since it is the air pressure that supports the load not the tire you would need to run 80 psi to support the 80 psi load shown in the tables.

I just purchased a TPMS system, GOOD for you since I need to have the valve stems replaced with metal GOOD for you I was leaning towards having the Castle Rocks balanced and filled with Nitrogen Nitrogen is not magic and IMO isn't worth the $ so unless its free I would not waste the money and running them a bit longer.

Is this a waste of money, should I just say the hell with it and by the new China Carlisle's with the E ratings or what? Honestly, if I could buy a Michelin tire the size of what I have this would not even be a topic for discussion. I don't have the clearance needed for a 16" wheel so that's out.

One thing I do want to mention is a phone call to Forest River today did reveal some interesting info. Apparently FR switched over to higher load rated tires the end of last year and have had a drastic decrease in reported tire failures. This makes me wonder if the Castle Rocks were overrated to begin with. Maybe not overrated but over loaded.

Anyway, suggestion are welcome, I guess I would be unhappy if I had a blowout on the original tires, then again I would be VERY unhappy if I had a blowout on some new tires I dropped 500+ bucks on All because China doesn't know how to make good quality tires. One last thing, I made a call to Lionshead/Castle Rock and left a message for their tech support.
My call was not returned... Not surprised.

Dan

Comments in red. I suggest you read the posts on trailer inflation on my blog.

[lbrjet]

I have 16K on my China Hercules tires and they are showing signs of wear, not much tread left. They have taken me to about 30 states. At 16K just about any ST tire is ready or close to ready for replacement.

[DaveSchwartz]

Originally Posted by Cowracer

<<<lot's of excellent stuff deleted for space>>>

I'm not afraid of Chinese products simply because it's Chinese. Its when its when companies use China to forgo quality for price is when things go downhill quickly.

Tim

Hear! Hear! (or is it Here! Here!) I've never seen it put so well.

[SidecarFlip]

Originally Posted by DaveSchwartz

Hear! Hear! (or is it Here! Here!) I've never seen it put so well.

The good, bad and ugly. I guess Harbor Freight is in the ugly column.

I bought a Tanaka chainsaw. It's a Makita (Japanese) Chinese built knockoff and it's a well made very reliable chainsaw, so I agree that so long as quality is paramount over cost, Chinese stuff is okay.

My issues don't lie with products but with trade imbalance which is not discussable on this forum, so I prefer not to buy Chinese or any Pacific Rim products for that matter.

[RoadNomad]

Originally Posted by SidecarFlip

The good, bad and ugly. I guess Harbor Freight is in the ugly column.

I bought a Tanaka chainsaw. It's a Makita (Japanese) Chinese built knockoff and it's a well made very reliable chainsaw, so I agree that so long as quality is paramount over cost, Chinese stuff is okay.

My issues don't lie with products but with trade imbalance which is not discussable on this forum, so I prefer not to buy Chinese or any Pacific Rim products for that matter.

I too have purchased quality products that were made in China (the Iphone is a good example). If the manufacturing facility is held to exacting standards and uses quality materials a good product usually is produced that would be comparable and sometimes better then a similar product produced in the US. Here's the rub, at least in the US there are standards that must be adhered to, ie, quality of the materials used, amount of time a worker can work etc.

With China you have no idea what your getting, Harbor Freight is a great example of this. I have seen tools that have excellent fit and finish just to go back a month later and see the same tool that was made like crap and would probably break the first time you use it. This is an approach I cannot expect when it comes to the life of my family and a tire. It is good that there are charts that can tell you which plant manufactured the tire in China but that falls far short of the information you need to make an educated decision on whether or not to go with one. All you can do is rely on the distributor's reputation. Castle Rock/Lionshead from what I have read has no reputation of producing a good tire.

Honestly, I don't mind paying more for a quality product, though I prefer to buy US to me its not a deal breaker if its made elsewhere. I just need to know that it is quality, safe and will provide good service and was designed and manufactured that way. When I had my Allegro Bus I would run nothing but Michelins that ran about $700.00 a tire. I could have used a chinese tire at 1/4 those costs but again no real info of the manufacture.

I guess the real issue here is there are very few choices for trailer tires in the 14 and 15 inch sizes. All you can do is limit mileage to 16k, nothing older then 3 to 4 years, keep them inflated to recommended pressures and use TPMS systems to keep track of there heat and inflation.

Tireman9, in answer to your question they 225/75R15 ST D113L load range D 75mph at cold 65psi and the DOT code I mentioned before.

Dan

[RoadNomad]

Tireman, I would like your opinion as well as others as to what would be good alert values to set in the TPMS. I need to set high and low pressures and temperature alerts.

I am going to keep the Castle Rocks (or may pops) for my next trip and probably dump them at the end of this year. They should have close to 15k at that point. Before I leave on the next trip I will have them balanced, this should give me the best opportunity to be able to make sure they are round, not developing any flat spots or bulges or cracks. This with the TPMS system is about the best I can do at this point.