Castlerock tire issues-not safe

[Rammer Jammer]

This happened 1 day prior to a 2400 mile trip up the east coast. I was on my way to the tire store to have Endurance tires put on.

[frank4711]

Originally Posted by Rammer Jammer

This happened 1 day prior to a 2400 mile trip up the east coast. I was on my way to the tire store to have Endurance tires put on.

at least you were headed in the right direction

[Rammer Jammer]

Without a doubt, and had everything in the rv to change it

[frank4711]

Originally Posted by Rammer Jammer

Without a doubt, and had everything in the rv to change it

Just put my Goodyear's on last week

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Airdale

That's because of a RVIA recommendation to its members - about 98% of all RV trailer manufacturers - to provide 10% in load capacity reserves with all OEM tires.

And 10% isn't near enough margin since there are times one tire may carry more then the others and well over the 10% .

[Rammer Jammer]

I put the Endurance tires all the way around on the RV and changed my truck tires to the Goodyear Wrangler All Terrains with the Kevlar sidewalls. I’ve taken a 2400 mile trip and a 1500 mile trip since and absolutely enjoy both sets. And added bonus my mpg went up about 2 mpg

[frank4711]

Originally Posted by MR.M

And 10% isn't near enough margin since there are times one tire may carry more then the others and well over the 10% .

I mentioned this before my new 2020 Rockwood came with ST235 80 R16 E rated instead of ST 225 75 R15 E rated tires that came with my first camper which was longer and heaver than the new camper .... maybe there are starting to upgrade the load capacity on some new production?? 580 lbs more load capacity 3420 vs 2840 .... camper weights 10,100 with pin of 1550 = 8550 div by 4 = 2137 per tire if I have the math correct ?? Please let me know .... way over 10% margin ... Thanks Frank

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by frank4711

I mentioned this before my new 2020 Rockwood came with ST235 80 R16 E rated instead of ST 225 75 R15 E rated tires that came with my first camper which was longer and heaver than the new camper .... maybe there are starting to upgrade the load capacity on some new production?? 580 lbs more load capacity 3420 vs 2840 .... camper weights 10,100 with pin of 1550 = 8550 div by 4 = 2137 per tire if I have the math correct ?? Please let me know .... way over 10% margin ... Thanks Frank

Hope so ! i've seen to many come with not near enough margin . my TH came with lrd on a 9800 lbs TH which is just a hair above 10% . Now remember not all tires on a tt carry equal amounts of weight . some a bit more some a bit less . i went to lre within the first 1000 miles and before i ever loaded anything in the unit . 10% is not enough .

[Brother Les]

I can not get my mind off the concrete block wedged in between the tires. This may not be very good on the tires to distort the tire belts like this. weakening the rubber and the belts... I would have denied the claim on that picture alone....

[tworootrain]

Originally Posted by captjackSH

GREAT UPDATE!!!!
LionHead (distributor of Castle Rock) tires provided a refund of 100 dollars per tire, based upon our photos and claim information. They did agree that this claim deserved approval. More evidence you must file a claim for issues with Castle Rock tires.
Warranty

If Lionshead(distributor for Castlerock tires) is not refusing to acknowledge that the RV tire is defective by providing cash returns, then can't we conclude that they possess information that we consumers don't have. My father-in-law, for example, a research scientist/engineer for Goodyear developed a tire-testing machine for the company's(Goodyear) tire division(1950/60's). One of my colleagues was assigned to monitor the machine in which tires were subject to various tests including spinning at high speed and continually operated until the tire went into failure. Tires were tested randomly to create specific failures based on given sets of conditions(e.g. underinflation or operating speed). This poses the question about whether tires are still being tested like this today? Does Goodyear still have a tire-testing protocol? Does Castlerock? Are data available to consumers that show test results? In today's data-rich environment why don't we have specific variable test comparisons among products, e.g., tires, that impact consumer safety? Why are we still relying on the experience of other RV'ers to enable the consumer to make important safety decisions? (Yes, I am more persuaded by empirical data than experience and also an admirer of Ralph Nadar).

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by MR.M

And 10% isn't near enough margin since there are times one tire may carry more then the others and well over the 10% .

That's the owner's fault. The trailer manufacturers provided all the basic weights and their limits. The owner is responsible for their trailer's weight and balance conditions.

That 10% load capacity reserve is 10% higher than the FMVSS requirement of ZERO which was often practiced by the RV trailer manufacturers.

Here is a reference from a trailer where the GAWR's had been reduced to a value of 5080# by the trailer's manufacturer for the sole purpose to install tires with a maximum load capacity of 2540# ea..

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...pictureid=6489

As far back as 2007, load capacity reserves for RV trailer tire applications were strongly recommended but always benched by NHTSA. At the time, the tire industry giant (USTMA formally RMA) recommendation was 15%. Personally I use 15%+ but 10% will work well on a well balanced trailer. Anything is better than ZERO.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by tworootrain

If Lionshead(distributor for Castlerock tires) is not refusing to acknowledge that the RV tire is defective by providing cash returns, then can't we conclude that they possess information that we consumers don't have. My father-in-law, for example, a research scientist/engineer for Goodyear developed a tire-testing machine for the company's(Goodyear) tire division(1950/60's). One of my colleagues was assigned to monitor the machine in which tires were subject to various tests including spinning at high speed and continually operated until the tire went into failure. Tires were tested randomly to create specific failures based on given sets of conditions(e.g. underinflation or operating speed). This poses the question about whether tires are still being tested like this today? Does Goodyear still have a tire-testing protocol? Does Castlerock? Are data available to consumers that show test results? In today's data-rich environment why don't we have specific variable test comparisons among products, e.g., tires, that impact consumer safety? Why are we still relying on the experience of other RV'ers to enable the consumer to make important safety decisions? (Yes, I am more persuaded by empirical data than experience and also an admirer of Ralph Nadar).

Your questions are valid but mostly unanswerable. In the past, GY often provided cost free replacements and paid for trailer damages without explanations. The big picture for that was probably GY avoiding a tire recall situation which is very expensive for the tire manufacturer.

LionsHead is not a tire manufacturer. They are wholesaler providing tires imported from another country. As such, they would be responsible for the cost of a tire recall for tires they provided to our market place. Therefore, they may just want to do some more testing to insure their product - Castle Rock - have the performance capability married to their specifications. Tires are normally tested by a 3rd party and only in a spot check fashion. Because I'm not formally trained in tire manufacturing I cannot get into the process as I don't have access to all of the material needed to explain the testing processes of tire materials. There are numerous references to those materials but the PDFs are costly and in some instances not complete because of confidentiality clauses. What most of us know is each tire designated size is tested somewhere, sometime before being introduced to the market place. The performance testing methods are available in FMVSS (standards) under the reading 571.

NOTE: When the tire builder molds the DOT symbol into the tire sidewall they have confirmed the tire meets all DOT requirements of safety including testing.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Airdale;2188576[COLOR=Red

]That's the owner's fault. The trailer manufacturers provided all the basic weights and their limits. The owner is responsible for their trailer's weight and balance conditions.[/COLOR]

That 10% load capacity reserve is 10% higher than the FMVSS requirement of ZERO which was often practiced by the RV trailer manufacturers.

Here is a reference from a trailer where the GAWR's had been reduced to a value of 5080# by the trailer's manufacturer for the sole purpose to install tires with a maximum load capacity of 2540# ea..

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...pictureid=6489

As far back as 2007, load capacity reserves for RV trailer tire applications were strongly recommended but always benched by NHTSA. At the time, the tire industry giant (USTMA formally RMA) recommendation was 15%. Personally I use 15%+ but 10% will work well on a well balanced trailer. Anything is better than ZERO.

Hardly the owners fault if one tires sees more weight then the others . your assuming that TT's come balanced from the factory and loading is what makes one tire carry more then another . wish it was that simple but it's not . Even a perfectly balanced TT with equal amount of weight on each tire will experience more weight on one or more tires just driving down the road . This boils down to educating the buying public that 0 to 10% margin is not enough . No one can count on riva, or manufactures to build in a better margin . it's up to the buyers to know the differences . I'm sure this forum and many others are educating people to this as it seems many go up in load rating from what they get from the factory and not hearing many blow outs from people that have upgraded the load ratings .

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by MR.M

Hardly the owners fault if one tires sees more weight then the others . your assuming that TT's come balanced from the factory and loading is what makes one tire carry more then another . wish it was that simple but it's not . Even a perfectly balanced TT with equal amount of weight on each tire will experience more weight on one or more tires just driving down the road . This boils down to educating the buying public that 0 to 10% margin is not enough . No one can count on riva, or manufactures to build in a better margin . it's up to the buyers to know the differences . I'm sure this forum and many others are educating people to this as it seems many go up in load rating from what they get from the factory and not hearing many blow outs from people that have upgraded the load ratings .

Since the owner is responsible for loading it really is their fault.

Just like with commercial trucks, regardless of who built or loaded the truck it's the driver's responsibility to insure that they aren't overloaded and the load is properly secured.

FWIW, going up in load rating isn't going to increase load capacity of axles so in many cases doing so is merely a waste of money. Staying within the load limits of the axles often is all that's necessary (along with proper tire maintenance and operation).

[Iwannacamp]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Since the owner is responsible for loading it really is their fault.



Just like with commercial trucks, regardless of who built or loaded the truck it's the driver's responsibility to insure that they aren't overloaded and the load is properly secured.



FWIW, going up in load rating isn't going to increase load capacity of axles so in many cases doing so is merely a waste of money. Staying within the load limits of the axles often is all that's necessary (along with proper tire maintenance and operation).

True, but a few hundred pounds over the load rating on the metal components SHOULD NOT cause catastrophic failure whereas cheaply made tires need a 20-30% safety margin to “go down the road”.

[Dodge Guy]

Originally Posted by Airdale

That's the owner's fault. The trailer manufacturers provided all the basic weights and their limits. The owner is responsible for their trailer's weight and balance conditions.

That 10% load capacity reserve is 10% higher than the FMVSS requirement of ZERO which was often practiced by the RV trailer manufacturers.

Here is a reference from a trailer where the GAWR's had been reduced to a value of 5080# by the trailer's manufacturer for the sole purpose to install tires with a maximum load capacity of 2540# ea..

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...pictureid=6489

As far back as 2007, load capacity reserves for RV trailer tire applications were strongly recommended but always benched by NHTSA. At the time, the tire industry giant (USTMA formally RMA) recommendation was 15%. Personally I use 15%+ but 10% will work well on a well balanced trailer. Anything is better than ZERO.

My 07 TT with an 11,200lb GVWR was equipped with LR D tires. I always thought that was marginal at best. Gen when they started failing after 500 miles
I knew I was correct. Replaced them with E rate tires and it actually handled much better, probably due to the stiffer sidewalls.

[frank4711]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Since the owner is responsible for loading it really is their fault.

Just like with commercial trucks, regardless of who built or loaded the truck it's the driver's responsibility to insure that they aren't overloaded and the load is properly secured.

FWIW, going up in load rating isn't going to increase load capacity of axles so in many cases doing so is merely a waste of money. Staying within the load limits of the axles often is all that's necessary (along with proper tire maintenance and operation).

OK Mike ... made me look at my axles I knew but checked anyway and they are good 5000 lbs ... I agree it is all about loading. It is always my fault

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Since the owner is responsible for loading it really is their fault.

Just like with commercial trucks, regardless of who built or loaded the truck it's the driver's responsibility to insure that they aren't overloaded and the load is properly secured.

FWIW, going up in load rating isn't going to increase load capacity of axles so in many cases doing so is merely a waste of money. Staying within the load limits of the axles often is all that's necessary (along with proper tire maintenance and operation).

Not talking about overloading here . going up in load range increases the safety margin not the load carrying capabilities . saying it's the owners responsibility to make sure the load is completely balance so each tire carries the same weight when the empty units from the factory are not balanced is a bit over the top . So unless you go to the scales every trip and to scales that can tell you the weight of every tire no one will have a balanced rig with equal weight on each tire .

[cbcg710]

I went to nhtsa.gov ; they have Lionshead listed but no Castle Rock. I too have had blowouts with their tires...the last time, it cost me approximately $1500.00 in body and propane line repairs.