Cracks and Frame - Page 2

jeff64 · 05-26-2019, 10:42 AM

Is there any more instances of this on a tt with leaf spring suspension vs. a torqueflex axle system? I recognize these are fabricated I beam constructed.

whj469 · 05-26-2019, 10:48 AM

Yes you are one hundred % correct. They, older RVs, where heavier and you do need bigger trucks to pull them. My current fiver, 2018 Cardinal 3825 FL, is fulltime rated and much heavier. The frame is heavier. I can only hope that it is up to the task?

myredracer · 05-26-2019, 11:39 AM

Yes, some of the frames they use are way too weak for the weight and length of the trailer "box" sitting on them. Some frames are made from 3 pieces of 1/8" mild steel welded lengthwise and look like a "regular" cold-rolled I-beam. The 3-piece I-beams flex a LOT. We had one on the TT I mentioned above and it was returned to the manufacturer because it was too weak and had excessive flex.

Some claim it's the TT manufacturer's fault because they spec. the type of frame they want. But Lippert manufactures and designs them so I say it's Lippert's fault for making weak substandard frames. Lippert continues to manufacture weak frames knowing full well they are inadequate.

Torsion axles create more stress on a frame because there are two points that transfer the weight of the trailer to the ground (in a dual axle setup). A spring axle setup in comparison, transfers the load to the ground via 3 points under the frame (at each spring hanger). A good explanation can be found here: [URL="https://mechanicalelements.com/trailer-axle-springs-torsion-axle/"]https://mechanicalelements.com/trailer-axle-springs-torsion-axle/[/URL ] A weak frame, torsion axles and a heavy/long TT would not be a good mix.

Bigruh36 · 05-26-2019, 04:37 PM

I have a 2014 Sabre that has also has frame issues. Mine frame lost is camber and had a bunch of failed welds on outriggers. Lippert attempted to repair and reinforce the frame but it is still not fixed. Be very wary of their repair and verify it independently .

babock · 05-26-2019, 07:15 PM

Trailers that have spread axles are the worst for possible frame damage.

Daycruiser · 05-26-2019, 07:31 PM

When it comes to Lippert frames, anything you can do to minimize the stress on the frame or in the case of a 5th wheel reduce the stress on the overhang will work to your advantage. I go to CAT scales regularly for just this reason, Lippert will go directly to overloading as a cause for frame failure, I already have a certified CAT scales weight on my new Cedar Creek that I've had a week. About every 90 days I take my rv and weigh it, I defy them to try and prove overweight with me. I also use an energy absorbing hitch so they can't blame over stress on the overhang from a ridged hitch configuration. Lippert will have a hell of a battle on their hands if I have a frame issue. They build junk and they know it.

TravellinLibrarian · 05-27-2019, 06:42 AM

Just makes me wonder if the camper went other places like RV shows before it went to dealer.

**ependydad** · 05-28-2019, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

We had a member on here that their Sabre had a cracked frame issue but he said it was from the trailer being overloaded.

Yep, that was my 2013 36QBOK. I most definitely was overloaded AND I had jumped from load range E to load range J tires.

Not only was I overloaded from my GVWR (15,825), but Sabre downgraded the GVWR to 14,466 or something like that in the next (or maybe just later in the) model year after my trailer was built. I ran at about 16,500-16,800 lbs give or take. So I was either 1,000 lbs or 2,000 lbs overweight.

I was never overweight on the axles' weight rating. I was over on a single tire, but that's what prompted the upgrade to LR J wheels + tires.

Here are pictures from the week of work we put into getting the trailer back on the road. None of them are incredibly helpful, but I do have some cute shots of my son while we sat on the side of the road for 6+ hours in 100+ degree weather as I fought the blown tire and slide bar that was rubbing it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dougse...57688928974555

I have a thread on here about it, but I can't seem to find it easily.

First and foremost- my trailer insurance company wouldn't touch it since there was no "impact". My extended warranty wouldn't touch it since they said that frame damage was mostly caused by accidents and that trailer insurance should cover it.

I never reached out to Lippert. I figured I had no ground to stand on as I was knowingly overloaded. I still don't feel like a trailer's frame should fail so catastrophically being overloaded by 1,000 lbs. and that there should be more of a safety margin; but I also should't have been overloading the rig.

I lucked into another Fulltime Family came to my rescue. People I had never met before. First they came to a campsite where he removed the slide bar for me that I failed miserably at, cleaned it up so that I could put it on and remove it as needed, and lined up his work's yard for me to take it over and he + I to work on it.

(Mind you, I use "+ I" and "we" very loosely in all of this. I'm about as handy as a drunken 5 year old with play tools.)

We dropped the underbelly and the cross members and outriggers were a hot mess. I had one cross member that literally pulled itself through the wall of the I-beam. 3 or 4 were just twisted and mangled.

We used a hydraulic Porto-Power and some steel to push out the side that buckled inward. Then he welded a hook onto the steel and we used a come along winch to pull in the side that buckled outward. I'll be honest that we just eyeballed the straight & true-ness.

He placed an order with a local metal supply shop for 6 or 8" C-channel beams cut to length. He welded caps on each one. We used a jack to lift them into place and then drilled + bolted them into place.

I pulled into the shop yard on Labor Day Monday and was at the RV parking at the local fairgrounds by Thursday evening. I paid for the steel but he wouldn't accept any money for the work (though, we did "sneak" and gave them a bit in Visa gift cards).

Let me know if you have any questions.

TravellinLibrarian · 07-14-2019, 03:10 PM

Well after all these months, we finally have forward progress. After our insurance company sent more photos and measurements to Lippert, they sent out a technician to inspect our Sabre. Evidently there is one technician that travels from Maine to SC, by the way. He said that the frame can be repaired and attributed it to an overload caused by the blowout, which was all the insurance company needed to hear. So, all repairs will be covered. 2 new axles with new leaf springs, 3 new cross members; 2 days work taking up two service bays of the dealer. Then the dealer has to do the repairs from the blowout that it originally went there for, plus some readjusting of some cabinetry, etc. inside. Oh, and a new underbelly. Hoping to get our rig back the the 2nd weekend of Augusts. Shot the camping season, as our school district goes back to school August 22nd, but have a couple of trips planned around football games. Just relieved the insurance company and Lippert came through on this!

Daycruiser · 07-14-2019, 04:55 PM

"Overload caused by the blowout" sounds like a neat tactic to shift the liability from Lippert to the Insurance Company assuming that by covered the OP means the insurance co is picking up the tab. So if you have a bad tire and it blows your frame explodes and it's on your insurance company to rebuild your frame. What a crock.

TitanMike · 07-14-2019, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daycruiser

"Overload caused by the blowout" sounds like a neat tactic to shift the liability from Lippert to the Insurance Company assuming that by covered the OP means the insurance co is picking up the tab. So if you have a bad tire and it blows your frame explodes and it's on your insurance company to rebuild your frame. What a crock.

A blowout is essentially an accident and any consequential damage would not be the responsibility of the frame manufacturer. Depending on tire size, load rating, and inflation pressure, the energy released by a blowout can equal that of dynamite.

Sounds like it's going exactly like it should. Frame manufacturers build frames to withstand normal loads incurred while transporting the rest of the structure down the road. Forces released by a blowout are no longer normal.

As for who pays? As long as the customer doesn't does it matter? If the customer wasn't negligent chances are his rates won't be affected at all.

Daycruiser · 07-14-2019, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanMike

A blowout is essentially an accident and any consequential damage would not be the responsibility of the frame manufacturer. Depending on tire size, load rating, and inflation pressure, the energy released by a blowout can equal that of dynamite.

Sounds like it's going exactly like it should. Frame manufacturers build frames to withstand normal loads incurred while transporting the rest of the structure down the road. Forces released by a blowout are no longer normal.

As for who pays? As long as the customer doesn't does it matter? If the customer wasn't negligent chances are his rates won't be affected at all.

Sorry Mike, baloney. I've had 11 RVs and two boats over the past 40+ years and not one of them ever experienced frame damage from a blown tire. Tires can blow for a multitude of reasons and under no circumstances should a frame come apart to the level his did. That was a poorly designed and built frame. Period. He's just lucky that his insurance company picked up the tab this time, next time he may not be so lucky.

TitanMike · 07-14-2019, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daycruiser

Sorry Mike, baloney. I've had 11 RVs and two boats over the past 40+ years and not one of them ever experienced frame damage from a blown tire. Tires can blow for a multitude of reasons and under no circumstances should a frame come apart to the level his did. That was a poorly designed and built frame. Period. He's just lucky that his insurance company picked up the tab this time, next time he may not be so lucky.

I'm not disputing how you see it, just how the Insurance Company see's it (as well as the frame mfr).

I too have 40+ years experience with towing RV's and Boats but face it, in this day and age the manufacturers are trying to rid as much weight as possible from their product because people want to tow with lighter duty vehicles. Also so they don't have to buy as much steel which is priced by the pound. Take 10 pounds out of 1,000 trailer frames and that's 5 tons of steel they didn't have to pay for. No argument with what you think the frame should withstand but reality is, they don't make 'em like they used to.

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