Fifth Wheel frame flex

[kandl]

Originally Posted by DJalbertacanada

I got a response from Forest river this AM, the Service spokesman has stated that some movement is normal, I then sent him a link to the video, I am interested to see what he says.

Yikes! 0:17 of your vid. That ain't right. That much flex does not look like a poorly fitted panel. Many TTs are no better when it comes to flex and stuff (trim) coming apart or falling off. But that? I think some of the posters here may be on to something.

[RubberNail]

My experience was similar to 05CrewDually. Looking back on it, there was movement for likely over a year before but I dismissed it as normal, or visual distortion in the rear view mirror cause I was moving. Just FYI. I am a retired structural engineer and have designed petrochemical modules for transport to erection sites. When they cut out my fractured beam I measured the beam with calipers to see what it was. Then measured the pin box dimensions, put it into my structural software and ran an analysis. What I found was that the beam size was barely adequate for the advertised UVW pin load, FS=1.5. When I added the design impact we that is usual for transport modules (100% vertical) - well it failed. Also, having weighed my unit before I knew that the operating pin weight was about 50% more than the advertised UVW load (I have a factory installed 5.5 Onan in the front), so I was at the beam capacity before even moving. As with 05CrewDually, absolutely NO HELP from the manufacturer, either Keystone or Lippert.
AS SAID by others, I would highly recommend having the nose skin dropped and looking at the pin box connection plateds to the beams. $1k is much less than the $5k I spent. Look for hairline fractures. I was LUCKY to have not been stranded in the boondocks - no cell phone, no nothing for 200 miles - met one (1) other RV going the other way. Drove over 8 hours at 20-30 mph with wife watching the nose to be sure it wasn't hitting the bed as we went over the bumps. ALL BAD. Oh, just occurred to me, I had the same kind of panel flex, ultimately rupture, at the closet over the nose.
Get it checked!!

[DJalbertacanada]

Originally Posted by RubberNail

My experience was similar to 05CrewDually. Looking back on it, there was movement for likely over a year before but I dismissed it as normal, or visual distortion in the rear view mirror cause I was moving. Just FYI. I am a retired structural engineer and have designed petrochemical modules for transport to erection sites. When they cut out my fractured beam I measured the beam with calipers to see what it was. Then measured the pin box dimensions, put it into my structural software and ran an analysis. What I found was that the beam size was barely adequate for the advertised UVW pin load, FS=1.5. When I added the design impact we that is usual for transport modules (100% vertical) - well it failed. Also, having weighed my unit before I knew that the operating pin weight was about 50% more than the advertised UVW load (I have a factory installed 5.5 Onan in the front), so I was at the beam capacity before even moving. As with 05CrewDually, absolutely NO HELP from the manufacturer, either Keystone or Lippert.
AS SAID by others, I would highly recommend having the nose skin dropped and looking at the pin box connection plateds to the beams. $1k is much less than the $5k I spent. Look for hairline fractures. I was LUCKY to have not been stranded in the boondocks - no cell phone, no nothing for 200 miles - met one (1) other RV going the other way. Drove over 8 hours at 20-30 mph with wife watching the nose to be sure it wasn't hitting the bed as we went over the bumps. ALL BAD. Oh, just occurred to me, I had the same kind of panel flex, ultimately rupture, at the closet over the nose.
Get it checked!!

If I pull the skin from the Cap to front storage, this should give me access to at least the bottom side of all the critical structure correct? I think that skin should drop very easy (screws/trim and silicone etc)

[18CrewDually]

Since your coach is newer and possibly under warranty, I'd request your dealer to work with Forest River/Lippert and inspect it. Just make sure you stress to them that when they take down the fascia that you want to see the frame for yourself too. You want to closely inspect for fractures around the pinbox mounting side plates. Also, once apart hold a straight edge across (left to right) the front beam to make sure it's not bent up (like a rainbow).
Keep us posted.

[DDC]

The biggest failing here is in not reporting these failures to Home | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) This is a highway vehicle and must meet safety standards and if this type of structural DEFECTS are not reported how on earth do we ever expect things to get done, corporate US is not regulation friendly and must be prodded to do things right.

[DJalbertacanada]

Originally Posted by 05CrewDually

Since your coach is newer and possibly under warranty, I'd request your dealer to work with Forest River/Lippert and inspect it. Just make sure you stress to them that when they take down the fascia that you want to see the frame for yourself too. You want to closely inspect for fractures around the pinbox mounting side plates. Also, once apart hold a straight edge across (left to right) the front beam to make sure it's not bent up (like a rainbow).
Keep us posted.

Our trailer is 3 weeks old problem is I do not trust RV service techs, im sure there are good ones out there but...I can drop the skin, pull the floor and send to a welder faster than I can book an appointment. And If I do this before major damage occurs it could save me huge in the long run.

So I will give them a chance to inspect, if I am unsatisfied with their findings I will most likely take matters into my own hands.

Still have not heard back from FR rep in regards to the video link I sent them.

Will definitely keep you all posted.

[RubberNail]

Again, 05CrewDually beat me to the response, and he is spot on. On my unit (Montana) the skin tucks under the front cap. There's a little more to do than meets the eye. The shop that repaired mine (Fireweed, in Whitehorse, Yukon) said they did about 5 a year on average. It was obvious that they knew what they were doing. If you have it done, you need to be sure they have someone who has seen a nose beam failure before and knows what they are looking for.
As for DDC and my failures, I admit to being far more concerned about how I was going to come up with $5k for repairs while several thousand miles from home, and would I make it home. Insofar as NHTSA is concerned, these agencies have been largely useless since Reagan gutted the regulatory agencies. I've owned RVs of all types and descriptions since 1970 and know that from the moment you drive, tow or haul it away from the dealership, YOU ARE ON YOUR
OWN. I sent dozens of pictures to Keystone, eventually exchanged several dozen e-mails, all to no result.

[DJalbertacanada]

Originally Posted by RubberNail

Again, 05CrewDually beat me to the response, and he is spot on. On my unit (Montana) the skin tucks under the front cap. There's a little more to do than meets the eye. The shop that repaired mine (Fireweed, in Whitehorse, Yukon) said they did about 5 a year on average. It was obvious that they knew what they were doing. If you have it done, you need to be sure they have someone who has seen a nose beam failure before and knows what they are looking for.
As for DDC and my failures, I admit to being far more concerned about how I was going to come up with $5k for repairs while several thousand miles from home, and would I make it home. Insofar as NHTSA is concerned, these agencies have been largely useless since Reagan gutted the regulatory agencies. I've owned RVs of all types and descriptions since 1970 and know that from the moment you drive, tow or haul it away from the dealership, YOU ARE ON YOUR
OWN. I sent dozens of pictures to Keystone, eventually exchanged several dozen e-mails, all to no result.

Just off the phone with a local welding shop (the welding shop in Calgary Alberta), they have repaired lots (he couldn't even guess at a number) of lippert frames during what sounded like a recall in 2005-2009, he even mentioned there was a procedure sent to them by lippert. So it sounds like they know the drill. Over the phone site unseen, if all skin/floor is removed I am looking at approx. 1000$ to reinforce the kingpin crossmembers.

The RV place we purchased from sends all welding there, I am hoping that they agree there is a problem and help with the repair.

Will keep you posted

[18CrewDually]

Originally Posted by DJalbertacanada

Our trailer is 3 weeks old problem is I do not trust RV service techs, im sure there are good ones out there but...I can drop the skin, pull the floor and send to a welder faster than I can book an appointment. And If I do this before major damage occurs it could save me huge in the long run.

So I will give them a chance to inspect, if I am unsatisfied with their findings I will most likely take matters into my own hands.

Still have not heard back from FR rep in regards to the video link I sent them.

Will definitely keep you all posted.

The advantage you have is your unit is so new and is covered by Lippert's 2 year warranty.
If your dealer gives you some BS go straight to Forest River and keep every email transaction in order in a reply format. Also take our pictures with you to show them what to look for. Dealers can be lazy and may fight you on taking down the fascia. They'll more than likely want to get "permission" first from Forest River to disassemble. Just stress to them once apart you want to visually inspect it for yourself. Don't settle for "We inspected it with an inspection camera and everything is fine." Not good enough. I have a 8mm bore scope 1 meter rwach camera and I couldn't see the breaks. It wasn't until I took down the panel when I found it.

[RubberNail]

Again, good advice from 05CrewDually. Mine was a 2008 Montana 2955 that I ordered from the factory. Breakdown in 2011. No recall here in the states. Still have the unit. When we rebuilt the front I added some steel, but options are limited due to the geometry underneath. If you have to replace the front beam(s), they are likely steel tubes (mine were 6x2x0.18 thk) use the same size tubing in 50 ksi grade (ASTM A500) but increase the thickness by at least 50%. You will have to measure the thickness with calipers, and remember that the actual thickness is generally about 90% of the nominal thickness. I had limited alternatives. To have what I wanted would have required a 800 mile one way trucking and another week in Whitehorse. Will say that excepting the breakdown, we enjoyed the stay in Whitehorse. Good folks in Western Canada.

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by DJalbertacanada

Just off the phone with a local welding shop (the welding shop in Calgary Alberta), they have repaired lots (he couldn't even guess at a number) of lippert frames during what sounded like a recall in 2005-2009, he even mentioned there was a procedure sent to them by lippert. So it sounds like they know the drill. Over the phone site unseen, if all skin/floor is removed I am looking at approx. 1000$ to reinforce the kingpin crossmembers.

The RV place we purchased from sends all welding there, I am hoping that they agree there is a problem and help with the repair.

Will keep you posted

Best news of this thread! A repair not a patch.... This problem continues for years, best of luck.


Sent from my iPad using Forest River Forums

[18CrewDually]

Originally Posted by DJalbertacanada

Just off the phone with a local welding shop (the welding shop in Calgary Alberta), they have repaired lots (he couldn't even guess at a number) of lippert frames during what sounded like a recall in 2005-2009, he even mentioned there was a procedure sent to them by lippert. So it sounds like they know the drill. Over the phone site unseen, if all skin/floor is removed I am looking at approx. 1000$ to reinforce the kingpin crossmembers.

The RV place we purchased from sends all welding there, I am hoping that they agree there is a problem and help with the repair.

Will keep you posted

Sounds like you're on track. This all should be NO cost to you. The dealer would remove the fascia and have the welder come to them and do the repair. Then the dealer reinstalls and foots the bill. Then the dealer will submit total cost to Forest River for reimbursement covered under warranty. All that only if Forest River agrees.
You still have a hurtle but I see no reason for them to deny unless there's proof of negligence such as a jack knife for example.

[B and B]

I bet the welder is busy fixing chuck wagons right now. Maybe in a week or two!

[Jamesbluke]

I have a forest river sierra 375qbq and the skin is coming apart just under the drivers side slide. Also, there is a crack in the skin on the top of the slide. Both are on the same side of the rv. From what I'm reading here I think my rig is flexing in the structure causing this damage. Am I correct? Also I'm having issues with the drivers side drooping once I drop the landing gear. Could this be related?

[DJalbertacanada]

First off I should update the current status of our rig. Since posting my last comment we have put 5500Kms on the trailer.


1) Our dealer went to lippert with my concerns, their reply was, some road flex is normal.
2) Dealer went to FR and FR stated that the wardrobe side panel needed more glue and some road flex was normal.


SOLUTION....MORE GLUE.


It was basically confirmed to me that unless obvious failure occurred no manufacturer will do anything. So with the added glue the wardrobe has indeed stayed put for now.


Now my personal opinion, this whole situation was made worse by a solid lippert 1621 pinbox, I have since swapped for a Reese 5th airborne and the road shock has been drastically reduced, this will no doubt prolong the life of the frame. IMHO no 5th wheel should be on the road without some form of isolation between the truck and trailer.

[DJalbertacanada]

James,


Can you post a picture of the drivers side cracks?


Also, try the below for a quick reference of how much movement you are getting, sounds like you have reason to be concerned about the front end.


1) With the Trailers full weight on the landing gear Take a pencil hold it flat to the underside of your front cap and trace a line along your pinbox
2) Now lower your trailer onto the hitch until the landing gear are off the ground, trace the same line.


The result should give you an idea of how much movement you have between the "non structural" body work and your frame. More than a 1/2" and you have reason to be concerned.

[Jamesbluke]

I will do that tomorrow. It flexes quite a bit. Enough to separate the joint seam on the skin and the seam along the bottom.