Goodyear Marathon vs Carlisle Radial Trail RH

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Herk
Main concern is to not exceed the load rating of the wheels.

I have heard it said that it is possible to exceed the psi rating and probably not get failure but exceeding the load rating is almost certain to fail the wheel.

That was my understanding as well.

[bob caldwell]

65 cold here....80 beats trailer to death

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by johnruff

When I bought my Goodyear UniSteels to replace the TowMasters, I also asked about the Sailuns due to the cost of the Goodyear. My tire dealer did not recommend Sailuns - said they were more of the same if not worse. Look at the weight of the tires, good tires weigh considerably more IMO.
I agree with reporting the failed tires but in most cases, when tire failure happens, you are on the road to somewhere and just want to get back on the road and get rid of the bad memory. After all, this just ruined our vacation or our return trip home. If the NHTSA really cared, they would be testing these tires and seeing them fail at an unacceptable rate without us having to go through all the pain.

Have to wonder if the dealer that said Sailuns were no good sells then. Might he simply be badmouthing a competitor?

NHTSA is under budget constraints thanks to Congress, so they have to prioritize and in general all tires are low on the list of items they try and monitor (air bags, seat belts, child seats and any other "safety related item on motor vehicles.
Due to low failure rates of tires and even lower personal injury rates and further down would be fatality rates of less than 1 in 100,000 or fewer complaints.
NHTSA also knows from previous and ongoing data collection that over half of RV owners have one or more tire in overload with most of those due to poor maintenance and low air pressure.
Another issue is that if they only have a few actionable complaints on file how can they justify spending $$ on testing that specific tire. Which one brand and design and size would you advocate spending $30 to $100 thousand on for the battery of tests?

A couple years ago I some time researching and reviewing complaints on file that might have been from RV owners.
What I found were a lot of "sob stories" but very few facts. Less than half had a proper size i.e. "My 205-15 tire failed".. A smaller percentage had the complete DOT serial. Some said things like "My Firestone Marathon tire exploded while on our trip to visit my mother who was sick". Sorry but trip information is on no value and if the complainant can't be bothered to know the brand and design of the tire how can they trust the rest of the information.

Complaints do not need to be long but they really need one thing it's the COMPLETE DOT serial including date code at end. I have advocated that people collect and write down this information before there is a tire problem and keep that info with the rest of your important RV documents. The DOT serial is also used if/when there is a recall so you would need to know the serial to know if your tires are subject to recall. Yes there have been recalls that involve tires that are on RVs.

I do understand that people want to get back on the road but at a minimum would be to capture a couple pictures of the failed tire (tire filling entire frame is best). NHTSA may or may not ask for the pictures in follow up but if you don't even have a couple of pictures exactly what evidence are tou bringing to the table?
You should also try and carry a trash bag large enough to carry the failed tire back to the dealer if you don't have spare tire rack. In reality the dealer is suppose to file a complaint with his distributor so that information can be sent on to NHTSA but sometimes I wonder if they bother so it really is up to us, the users to file the complaint.

Sorry for long post but wanted to use this as a bit of general education.

[KingFisher]

I've seen more than one person in this thread talking about only putting 65 psi in the E rated 80 psi tires. This confuses me.

Doesn't under inflation lead to failure?

I've got 2 of the new tires on the trailer, the other 2 are in my truck so I can take them to the tire store here in a minute. I'm wore out from pumping the jack handle.

[lbrjet]

Under inflated for the load. Look at a load inflation chart to get the minimum psi required for the given load. Anything above that is not under inflated. Some people may disagree with that, but tire companies publish load inflation charts for a reason.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[KingFisher]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

Under inflated for the load. Look at a load inflation chart to get the minimum psi required for the given load. Anything above that is not under inflated. Some people may disagree with that, but tire companies publish load inflation charts for a reason.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

I haven't found a load inflation chart on Carlisle's website yet, but I did find this there:
What is the proper tire inflation?

Maintain air pressure at the maximum PSI recommended on the tire sidewall. It's best to check tire pressure with a quality tire gauge when tires are cold and in the shade.

Under inflation is the number one cause of trailer tire failure. An underinflated tire creates abnormal tire flexing and excessive heat causing:

• Ride and handling problems
• Decreased fuel efficiency
• Reduction of tire life

Driving on tires with too much air is also not recommended. Over-inflated tires are more likely to cut, puncture or fail by sudden impact.

[KingFisher]

I'll just bump this up by saying I have my other 2 new tires in the back of my truck and need to get out there and put them on.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by KingFisher

I haven't found a load inflation chart on Carlisle's website yet, but I did find this there:
What is the proper tire inflation?

Maintain air pressure at the maximum PSI recommended on the tire sidewall. It's best to check tire pressure with a quality tire gauge when tires are cold and in the shade.

Under inflation is the number one cause of trailer tire failure. An underinflated tire creates abnormal tire flexing and excessive heat causing:

• Ride and handling problems
• Decreased fuel efficiency
• Reduction of tire life

Driving on tires with too much air is also not recommended. Over-inflated tires are more likely to cut, puncture or fail by sudden impact.

From the same web site ...

"How fast can I travel on Carlisle trailer tires?

In the past, most trailer tires were rated at 62 or 65 mph. Today, some of our tires are "rated" (speed symbols) at 87 mph (N), some at 75 mph (L), some at 65 mph (J: ST tires) and some at 62 mph (J: non-metric tires).

Please remember that speed ratings are test speeds and not recommended driving speeds. The ratings apply only to the tire itself, and not a particular vehicle. The speed rating does not mean that the vehicle can be safely operated at the tire's rated speed.

We recommend driving no more than 60 mph when towing a trailer. Please always drive at a safe speed and abide by the posted speed limit."


This is all legal mumbo Jumbo (their C rated tires are notorious for early failures). There are load charts even for Carlisle tires; they just don't choose to publish them any more because most folks don't weigh their campers. You have no idea what the optimum pressure is if you don't weigh your axles.

Because of that fact, they only warrant their tires now if you can PROVE you inflated them to the maximum sidewall pressure. Good luck with that ...

[lbrjet]

All ST tires follow the same load inflation chart. Easy to find one. An 'E' rated tire has the same load rating at 65 psi as a 'D' rated tire at 65. The tire is there to hold the air, and it is the air that supports the load. The tire doesn't care whether it has 8 belts or 10 belts, just that it has enough air to support the load.

Put 80 in your new tires if you think it is necessary.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[KingFisher]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

All ST tires follow the same load inflation chart. Easy to find one. An 'E' rated tire has the same load rating at 65 psi as a 'D' rated tire at 65. The tire is there to hold the air, and it is the air that supports the load. The tire doesn't care whether it has 8 belts or 10 belts, just that it has enough air to support the load.

Put 80 in your new tires if you think it is necessary.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

That makes sense, I can wrap my head around it.

Thanks.

[Tireman9]

You guys seem to have it figured out but let me put the icing on the cake.

Yes it is the air pressure in the tire that carries the load not the tire itself.

The Load/Inflation tables provide the MINIMUM cold pressure to use to support the measured load.

BUT

You really should have a margin on the tire load capacity. By regulation passenger tires require at least 9% above the max load for the vehicle. Since R service is almost always at or real near (or over ) the max load rating of a tire I STRONGLY suggest TT should have at least a 15% margin. in load capacity.

BUT

Again multi-axle TT are a unique animal so there are special considerations if there is a real engineer (not one that plays one on TV)

Whenever you make a turn, gentle or 90 degree backing, you are placing unique and high loads on the TT tires that your TV tires do not get exposed to. This because the tires are not rotating with their center-line pointing to the center of the radius.
This results in high "Interply Shear" You can read this Google on "interply shear tires" to learn more.

You can not eliminate this force unless you made the axles "steer" which is $$$$
You can lower the shear by increasing tire inflation.

So if you are running LR-D tires and only need 55 psi to support the load what should you do?

1. At least increase the inflation to 65. This will give you better load margin and will lower the interply shear.
2. To further decrease the shear you would need higher inflation i.e. 70 or higher.

You will not decrease your chance of Tread Separation by putting on LR-E tires but only running 65 psi. In fact putting on LR-E may cause other problems because the construction in a LR-E tire may be heavier which means more heat which is what accelerates the degradation of the belt rubber.

Back to my reccomendation.

Know your actual tire load. Individual tire info is best as few axles are 50/50 side to side.
Also few TT have 50/50 axle to axle load split.
Select the heavier end of an axle and use that number when consulting the Load tables to learn the MINIMUM inflation needed.

This inflation would be the Warning level on your TPMS.

Add at least 10% with 15% better to the inflation to provide a load capacity margin.

BUT if we really want to lower tire failure probability Increase the inflation to no less than the sidewall inflation. If that doesn't give you a 15% margin then go up in Load Range.

As you can see there are a number of items to be considered and selecting the inflation is a balancing act.

You note I didn't mention wheels. You must have wheels capable of supporting the heavier load. You should also have wheels that are rated for inflation at least equal to your cold inflation level.

All tires on an axle MUST have the same inflation. On multi axle trailers I suggest all tires have the same inflation.


OK so have I overloaded you enough?

[doc73]

Damn this just got deep with diagrams and stuff..

[OldCoot]

Good info, Thanks Tireman9.

[Tireman9]

Some people simply will not do what I tell them to do.

They want to know the "WHY"

So I tell em.

[lbrjet]

In your example you used a D rated tire and then said 70 or higher. This may confuse people and is not recommended.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

In your example you used a D rated tire and then said 70 or higher. This may confuse people and is not recommended.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

You are correct. I failed to type...

3. If you go to 70 you would need to move to LR-E tires as LR-D max out at 65.
4. Once you cross the bridge to LR-E it would be nice to go to 80 to greatly lower the Interply Shear and to greatly increase the margin on load capacity. Again confirming the wheels are OK.



Sometimes, for me, some of the steps are just too obvious if someone reads the entire thread and has been doing research but you are correct that it looks like every post must stand by itself or someone will jump to the wrong conclusion.

[lbrjet]

I agree running 80 when going from D to E. We were really discussing from C to E which many, many people do. I don't think it would hurt any to run 80 if your stock rim can handle 80, but i also think it is not going to hurt running 65. Only C's are needed for max trailer load so 50 psi. If I'm wrong please tell me.

I had planned on D's to replace my C's, my rim is stamped for a D rating max load and although the max psi is not on the rim ETrailer.com lists it at 65. When I needed tires they only had E's so I bought those instead and run 65 and have great success.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[sugarjohnson]

I'm currently shopping 235/80/16 E or higher tires currently for my new Wildcat 5th wheel. FR was kind enough to put Provider 235/80/16 E with a date code of 2013 on my new trailer. I can't find Sailun locally, considering XPS Ribs and the GY are just to pricey.

Since this thread started with Carlisle I'll bring those up. My local discount tire has their new tire model in which is a Radial Trail HD model.

Specs look interesting:
ST 235/80/16 LRE Max 3520 80psi 75MPH
ST 235/85/16 LRE Max 3640 80psi 75MPH
ST 235/85/16 LRF Max 3960 95psi 75MPH

I have 6000# axles and GVW of 12000#

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by sugarjohnson

I'm currently shopping 235/80/16 E or higher tires currently for my new Wildcat 5th wheel. FR was kind enough to put Provider 235/80/16 E with a date code of 2013 on my new trailer. I can't find Sailun locally, considering XPS Ribs and the GY are just to pricey.

Since this thread started with Carlisle I'll bring those up. My local discount tire has their new tire model in which is a Radial Trail HD model.

Specs look interesting:
ST 235/80/16 LRE Max 3520 80psi 75MPH
ST 235/85/16 LRE Max 3640 80psi 75MPH
ST 235/85/16 LRF Max 3960 95psi 75MPH

I have 6000# axles and GVW of 12000#

Assuming your actual loads are below GAWR (confirmed with scale weights and balanced side to side. Any of the options look ok

Sailun do not have a large dealer network so I understand that Internet and shipping tires to a store is needed many locations.

BTW what warranty is on the Carlisle's? Can you get Road Hazzard for reasonable price?

[sugarjohnson]

I'm unsure of the warranty on the new Carlisle but yes the I could get the road hazard very cheap as I have done lots of business with my local DT. My loaded weight last time I weighed in was right around 11,000#. We travel pretty light and never with full tanks etc.

I would really like the XPS ribs but they come in at max load of 3042# and I would like a little more margin then that. I somewhat intrigued with the new Carlisle 235/85/16 LRF. That would be plenty of tire for me assuming the new design is not a time bomb!

Looks like the warranty is 2 years?