|
10-20-2016, 06:18 PM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 263
|
Lug Nut - lug bolt problems
Today I needed to remove one of the 2 of the wheels on my travel trailer to do some frame preservation.. First wheel came off fine BUT the second was and still is a problem.. 4 of the 6 lug nuts came off easily.. the 5th turned about 1 turn and would not budge and the 6th after about 1/2 hour of twisting and turning both with a t-wrench and then an electric impact wrench it came off.. It is pictured below.. I immediately thought of who put it on last and the answer was a local repair shop that repacked the wheel bearings last year.. I went to them and they said that I had cross threaded them and it was my fault.. But when I explained that they were the last one to remove this whee from the hub, they agreed to fix the problem this weekend.. My question is just for my information.. Did they over tighten the lugs when they put them on or what can cause this? I am just happy I didn't have to replace a tire in transit only to find that I couldn't get the flat tire off.. Below is a picture of the damaged lug nut that also ruined the lug bolt as it came off.. Ideas or comments??
__________________
Ted
2010 T25KS Wildwood
2006 F-250 SD
STGCM(SW) USN Ret 30 yrs.
|
|
|
10-20-2016, 07:28 PM
|
#2
|
Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southwest Alabama
Posts: 9,850
|
That does look cross threaded. They just stuck the nut on there and used a big ole air impact to start and hammer it on. They didn't start the threads by hand like they should have.
__________________
Salem 29RKSS Pushing a GMC Sierra 2500HD!
Gotta go campin!
|
|
|
10-20-2016, 07:38 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 443
|
May have been cross threaded or it could have been rusted before removal this time. I have had that happen before. It will make them act like they are cross threaded and it will destroy the thread. If you live in a place where rust is going to be a problem, you can put a little anti-seize on the studs and it will protect them.
|
|
|
10-20-2016, 08:51 PM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 806
|
I'm going out on a limb, that is a steel wheel lug nut, they just run it on with an impact gun, no torque wrench used, would bet on it. Steel wheels with lug nuts on and off multiple times without proper installation techniques cause your problem.
__________________
2006 2500HD CCSB 2WD 2014 Crusader 285RET
Nights camped in 2013 - not enough!, 2014 37, 2015 40, 2016 39, 2017 38, 2018 36, 2019 37, 2020 26, 2021 28
|
|
|
10-20-2016, 08:56 PM
|
#5
|
Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
|
Definitely cross threaded by the service center. No rust on the nut.
|
|
|
10-21-2016, 12:33 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 593
|
I always use anti-seize paste on the threads and make sure that the final torque on each nut is set with a torque wrench not an air wrench. Know the proper torque for your axles and tell the shop to put that on the instructions along with anti-seize and torque wrench. A good shop will have no problem with this procedure.
|
|
|
10-21-2016, 01:59 PM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 182
|
The application of anti-seize compound on the threads is an excellent procedure, rust belt or not. One small caution...take care not to get the compound on the tapered part of the nut or rim. They need this friction to stay in place. I might also suggest that you check the holes in the wheel for damage, after looking at the odd shape of the nut.
Although the probability is fairly low, it is possible that the holes in the wheel are actually stretched from over-tightening. While this is somewhat remote, it looks like the lug nut had bottomed out against the hub, from the appearance of the bottom part of the nut. This is not supposed to ever happen, as it could easily lead to a loose wheel. There are several different versions of lug nuts, with different tapers, etc, although in the past they were all either 7/17-20 threads (GM) or 1/2-20 (everybody else) Now of course, pretty much everything is metric. The point of this is to look carefully at the lug nuts and the wheel and hub, to see what the situation is. I like to use extra caution in these cases! (And yes, I did nearly lose a wheel once because I had not paid enough attention!
|
|
|
10-21-2016, 04:14 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange Texas
Posts: 790
|
Lubrication will change torque values so make sure you torque properly.
__________________
2013 Crusader 330 MKS
2013 Chevrolet Silverado LT 2500 D/A
|
|
|
10-21-2016, 04:25 PM
|
#9
|
ARLO
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: N Chili, NY
Posts: 908
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmurph
May have been cross threaded or it could have been rusted before removal this time. I have had that happen before. It will make them act like they are cross threaded and it will destroy the thread. If you live in a place where rust is going to be a problem, you can put a little anti-seize on the studs and it will protect them.
|
Never put anti seize on a wheel stud. Properly torqued and threaded nuts will come off evey time. You should use a torque stick for proper installation.anti-seize will alter the torque spec.
|
|
|
10-21-2016, 07:19 PM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,058
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerdad
Lubrication will change torque values so make sure you torque properly.
|
If I remember, about 20-25 percent less torque with anti-seize, but I was always told by those how know, never use it. Just make sure the stud and nut threads are clean of rust and use a torque wrench.
__________________
Trailer: Lifted 228BH, heavy duty springs and Yokohama tires DELAMINATED ROOF
TV: 2016 GMC Sierra Z71 4x4 CC, SLT
Spare TV: Two Alaskan Malamutes
Living somewhere in ID; previously lived in Moab UT; previous to that, don't ask!
|
|
|
10-21-2016, 08:17 PM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 182
|
After reading the various positions on this, I started a bit of research to determine if what I learned as a budding young electrical apprentice in the 1960s was no longer valid. Apparently torque values today are assuming threads that are "clean and lightly lubricated" whether that applies to compounds such as "Never Seeze" or not, I do not know. However, that particular class of lubricants are still highly recommended on exhaust system components, as they stand the heat, and still allow the hardware to be taken apart in the future. They help prevent rusting. As mentioned before however, don't get it on the chamfer, as this apparently is what "locks" the fastening.
I've noticed also that many of the newer vehicles with alloy wheels, and even those with steel wheels no longer have the bolt holes counterbored or chamfered but rather use lug nuts with attached washers to (I assume) spread the clamping force over a wider area. Is this also the case here?
|
|
|
10-21-2016, 08:41 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Keller, Texas
Posts: 6,090
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlocicero
Never put anti seize on a wheel stud. Properly torqued and threaded nuts will come off evey time. You should use a torque stick for proper installation.anti-seize will alter the torque spec.
|
Not sure I can agree with your position here unless the appropriate maintenance manual prohibits its use. its used on spark plugs installation and is recommended along with proper torquing. Same thing.
|
|
|
10-21-2016, 09:04 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 263
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Photo Lab
After reading the various positions on this, I started a bit of research to determine if what I learned as a budding young electrical apprentice in the 1960s was no longer valid. Apparently torque values today are assuming threads that are "clean and lightly lubricated" whether that applies to compounds such as "Never Seeze" or not, I do not know. However, that particular class of lubricants are still highly recommended on exhaust system components, as they stand the heat, and still allow the hardware to be taken apart in the future. They help prevent rusting. As mentioned before however, don't get it on the chamfer, as this apparently is what "locks" the fastening.
I've noticed also that many of the newer vehicles with alloy wheels, and even those with steel wheels no longer have the bolt holes counterbored or chamfered but rather use lug nuts with attached washers to (I assume) spread the clamping force over a wider area. Is this also the case here?
|
the steel wheels are chamfered... will see tomorrow when facility repairs the damage and what they say caused it..
__________________
Ted
2010 T25KS Wildwood
2006 F-250 SD
STGCM(SW) USN Ret 30 yrs.
|
|
|
10-24-2016, 08:35 AM
|
#14
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pepperell MA
Posts: 41
|
Despite reading to the contrary, up here in salt territory all my wheel lugs (and pretty much everything else on a vehicle) gets never-seize. Dry, rusty/corroded threads are no fun. I do also put never seize on exhaust system fasteners, but the blue wrench in never far away when working on those. ;-)
|
|
|
10-24-2016, 09:33 AM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Waynesville
Posts: 14,428
|
Wheel studs or lug nuts are Torqued "Dry Fit",No Lube of any type! Same applies to any "High Vibration" fasteners! Youroo!!
__________________
|
|
|
10-24-2016, 09:47 AM
|
#17
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pepperell MA
Posts: 41
|
I've never lost or damaged a wheel due to too loose/too tight lug nuts. And I've always been able to get *mine* off without damage I can't say that is true for all I've had to remove. As my post said "Despite reading to the contrary" - so make your own decision, and if you don't have a good feel for what you're doing, follow the book.
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|