Nitrogen in tires, again!

[jackhartjr]

Hi folks, a couple of years ago got into a discussion about nitrogen in tires. Someone wanted to get technical on me.
I will say this, we put the Michelin 10-ply's on at 81,000 miles and just replaced them at 176,000. That's 95,000 on that set and they were still just barely legal. I run nitrogen and 50PSI in them.
They were more than 5 years old with no cracking!
Jack

[riversedge]

Jack, I am currently in the process of upgrading to Michelin 10 ply tires and was wondering about the best air pressure to use both towing, trailer weighs 9500 lbs with a pin weight of 1700 lbs, and when empty. You state that you run 50 PSI, is that towing, empty or both.
Thanks

[jeeplj8]

I think the type of driving, proper inflation, and rotation have much more to do with tire longevity than what they are filled with.

I have gotten 80K plus from BFG's, Hankooks and even a set of Kunmho's. Some of those were standard passenger tires on my cars.

[jackhartjr]

I run 50PSI year round.
Make sure they put the high pressure stems in the wheel, I had two of the regular ones fail during the five years they were on the truck.
Jack

[jackhartjr]

Jeepij8, big difference in cars and a 6,000 pound pick up.
And I drive city, highway, mountains, the whole thing.
Which begs the question from the diesel owners, how many miles average on a set of tires?
Jack

[jeeplj8]

Originally Posted by jackhartjr

Jeepij8, big difference in cars and a 6,000 pound pick up.
And I drive city, highway, mountains, the whole thing.
Which begs the question from the diesel owners, how many miles average on a set of tires?
Jack

first set of BFG long trails on my 05 Ram 2500 CTD were replaced at 98k. I generally find that load range e tries will wear better than passenger tires. However got 84K out of a set of Hankook's on a Magnum.

My current diesel only has 40K on the current set of Hankooks, but I expect they will make at least 80K.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

I think the type of driving, proper inflation, and rotation have much more to do with tire longevity than what they are filled with...

X2, makes absolutely no difference what is inside the tire as far as air or nitrogen. Keeping the correct pressure and alignment is what counts.

[lindy]

Normal air is about 70% nitrogen anyway so why pay all that extra for a couple of % more???

[fishman]

Nitrogen is an inert gas whereas oxygen is a reactive gas, specifically it is an oxidizer and can cause compounds to change into something other than the original compound with its original properties. Iron oxide (a.k.a. rust) is a prime example.
I would also think the nitrogen used to fill tires is much drier than ambient air compressed and pump into tires. There are water separators on most good pump systems but they do little to extract water vapor from the ambient air.
I don't know how much longer the inside of a tire will last being filled with dry nitrogen vice wet oxygen, but I have to agree with the folks that say this has no effect on the wear and tear on the outside. Proper pressure, alignment, balance, rotation, and avoiding UV and curb damage to the sidewalls is the key.

[great white]

Originally Posted by dunnnc

X2, makes absolutely no difference what is inside the tire as far as air or nitrogen. Keeping the correct pressure and alignment is what counts.

Well, I'll agree and disagree.

I will agree that nitrogen or air makes no difference to the rubber itself.

Where nitrogen makes a difference in how many miles is in that it keeps the pressure longer and is more consistent.

Given most drivers penchant to ignore tire pressures for long periods of time (if they ever check it at all), nitrogen enable the tire to run longer by maintaining pressure and reducing under-inflation tire wear and heat build up....

Nitrogen in tires is kind of like "fool proofing" them against under inflation. Well, for a longer time that is....

We use nitrogen in aircraft tires but that is because it is an inert gas and if you have a brake fire all you have to worry about is the pressure blow out instead of adding a jet of combustible air from the blow out plugs....

[B47]

Originally Posted by jackhartjr

Hi folks, a couple of years ago got into a discussion about nitrogen in tires. Someone wanted to get technical on me.
I will say this, we put the Michelin 10-ply's on at 81,000 miles and just replaced them at 176,000. That's 95,000 on that set and they were still just barely legal. I run nitrogen and 50PSI in them.
They were more than 5 years old with no cracking!
Jack

There are a couple threads regarding the pros and cons of using nitrogen in RV tires and looking at it might save everyone sometime and effort.

One thread started 03-07-12 in the General Tech & Repair Forum under the Running Gear, Axles, Brakes, Tires and Frame sub forum and contains 56 posts.

[joshuajim]

Last time I checked, when the tire was put on the rim it was full of plain old air with moisture in it. Adding nitrogen to pressurize it will NOT make the oxygen or moisture go away.

Hmmm...

[fishman]

Originally Posted by joshuajim

Last time I checked, when the tire was put on the rim it was full of plain old air with moisture in it. Adding nitrogen to pressurize it will NOT make the oxygen or moisture go away.

Hmmm...

Hmmm...... Good point. I guess they don't mount them in a vacuum. Still, the percentages of O2 and H2O must be much lower.

[SaskCampers]

Originally Posted by joshuajim

Last time I checked, when the tire was put on the rim it was full of plain old air with moisture in it. Adding nitrogen to pressurize it will NOT make the oxygen or moisture go away.

Hmmm...

There is a special machine that exchanges the O2 for nitrogen in any tire shop I have had it done at.

[comfun1]

Mine are filled with air and I like being able to top them off at exactly 50 psi before each trip. I had some filled with nitrogen but when checking and finding some variation the only way to maintain the nitrogen level is to haul the camper to the goodyear dealer and pay them to inflate them. I think nitrogen is nothing more than a gimmick promoted by the tire industry as a way for the tire dealers to make more money.

[whj77372]

Air is 78% N, 21% O and < 1% of other. I would wonder how much difference the 21% O makes? Mine came with N in both the truck and the fiver, but I just add air when filling them.

[Cajun Po-Boy]

Originally Posted by whj77372

Air is 78% N, 21% O and < 1% of other. I would wonder how much difference the 21% O makes? Mine came with N in both the truck and the fiver, but I just add air when filling them.

X2

[joshuajim]

Originally Posted by TheSasks

There is a special machine that exchanges the O2 for nitrogen in any tire shop I have had it done at.

I think you are confusing the "special machine" that generates (separates) nitrogen from the oxygen in air. Otherwise they would have to have tanks of nitrogen. They would have to vacuum the air out of the tire to achieve pure nitrogen.

Actually, NASCAR does this to racing tires, but it takes 3 complete fill and vacuum sequences to achieve it. Been there done that.

NO tire shop does that.

[bakken]

I run 80 psi in my Michelins, and plain old air.
Nitrogen has been proven to be a waste of money.
I have 3 nitrogen-filled tires, and one air-filled because of repair, on my new(er) 1/2 ton, and there is no difference in warm/cold weather pressure, nor loss of air pressure over time.
I just switched the tires on my wife's truck for winter, and those tires that are filled with plain air didn't lose 1 psi over the summer.
I'll take the nitrogen if it is free, but will never pay for it.

[crasher]

This is another subject that keeps coming up and we all prattle on about. It's been a scam since the 50's. I was surprised to see Costco doing it recently - thought they were above that kind of thing, but I guess not.

You see this repeatedly in scams - a morsel of science used to con people out of their money.