Overloading 5th wheel axles

[Hollywoodgt]

So Ive seen on numerous forums the weight police pop in and air their 2 cents about tow vehicles being over weight. So being new to the trailer life just getting a 5th wheel. I happen to look at my trailer axles and notices there 5 lug and skimmy axles compared to even lets say a F150 set up.

So you have 9600 lbs sitting on in my oinion something a lot less stronger than some vehicle set up. I realize there's more to it like braking etc . However a 5th wheel on some of the 1/2 tons have a lot more stable platform than some of these trailers with cheap tires on top of it?

[llr]

what is the weight rating on the axles and tires?

[Hollywoodgt]

Originally Posted by llr

what is the weight rating on the axles and tires?

Yes understood ....just saying for the set up on some trailers. Seems like a weak link is the the axle set up. Just seems skimpy to me incomparison

[67L48]

Most axles are rated for 3,500 lbs each. So, a 2 axle trailer is good for 7,000 lbs in most travel trailer set ups. Toy haulers often have a third axle and larger 5ers and such may have beefier axles. But, even the smaller 25-30' trailers are good for 7,500-8,000 lbs, considering some of that weight will be distributed to the hitch/jack and the weight of tires/wheels aren't actually on the axles.

But, otherwise, you are correct. Most of the GVWRs of the trailers are a function of the axle ... not the frame or other components. The axle is the limiting factor.

[larrytbm]

That F150 probably has a GVWR that is less than 7000 lbs and rear axle rating around 4000 lbs. So, weight is about the same between axles on your TT and truck.

But there are several differences, the truck axle also transmits power with drive shafts inside the tube along with the differential gears and oil. More significant is that the tube is not a single piece, but short tubes pressed into the diff. housing. For these reasons, it needs to be stronger even when expected to carry the same weight as a single trailer axle.

[Murbella7]

Originally Posted by Hollywoodgt

So Ive seen on numerous forums the weight police pop in and air their 2 cents about tow vehicles being over weight. So being new to the trailer life just getting a 5th wheel. I happen to look at my trailer axles and notices there 5 lug and skimmy axles compared to even lets say a F150 set up.

So you have 9600 lbs sitting on in my oinion something a lot less stronger than some vehicle set up. I realize there's more to it like braking etc . However a 5th wheel on some of the 1/2 tons have a lot more stable platform than some of these trailers with cheap tires on top of it?

My axles have a rating sticker on them. Helped a lot. After the original set collapsed within the first 8ooo km (5000m) a new undercarriage set of springs, bigger rims and higher rated tires helped even more.

[Oaklevel]

Not totally sure of what you are trying to say but a TH with two 3500 lbs axles is probably rated for around 8000 lbs a 5th wheel for more, just like any other camper. Most will also give you a max. weight in the garage or toy hauling area.

Our TH had two 6000 lb axles and a pin weight of 2500 lbs so its max hauling weight in the garage was 2500 lbs posted and total cargo was over 4000 lbs. On the scales it weighed approx. 13800 with our cargo. We used the tires that came on it for over 5 years with no issues.

The Gross weight capacity on any camper or any trailer for that matter will be limited on the axles and tires. Just because it has name brand tires does not mean it can haul more.

[Murbella7]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

Not totally sure of what you are trying to say but a TH with two 3500 lbs axles is probably rated for around 8000 lbs a 5th wheel for more, just like any other camper. Most will also give you a max. weight in the garage or toy hauling area.

Our TH had two 6000 lb axles and a pin weight of 2500 lbs so its max hauling weight in the garage was 2500 lbs posted and total cargo was over 4000 lbs. On the scales it weighed approx. 13800 with our cargo. We used the tires that came on it for over 5 years with no issues.

The Gross weight capacity on any camper or any trailer for that matter will be limited on the axles and tires. Just because it has name brand tires does not mean it can haul more.

Just saying that for a semi-ignorant novice 5th wheel hauler like I was at the time (I am very experienced now and know a lot, just ask me), I was glad that even though my springs collapsed, the axles were more than strong enough to support the load, verified by the ratings sticker we found.

Discovering the rating was way above anything we could load the 5'er up to (practically) helped me and the guy who built the new spring set have a level of confidence after discovering just how inappropriate the rest of the original springs and mountings were.

When you couple this with tires that were under rated to what they should have been and the fact that one exploded because of the load, we were happy to see something good. Most likely because the undercarriage and chassis would have been made in a different facility before shipping to FR for the upper works to be completed.

[KFX450RXC]

For what its worth, how often do we hear of truck rear axles breaking due to overloading? Same thing for camper axles. Its almost never heard of.

[szabla]

I have been debating on adding a 3rd drag axle to the rear of mine and adding some 2 in square tubing so I can either tow a small trailer/ boat and add an external box for a generator, fuel and storage. I figure a 5000lbs with a 16 inch 235/80-16E added to a pair of 4400lbs will be enough. I already bought and increased the tires to 16 from 15s.

[KyDan]

My question to the OP is "did you crawl under there and look for a rating sticker".

My axles have stickers that tell the weight rating. What do your stickers say?
What does your trailer weigh?
Have you had it to the truck scales and got an honest weight?

Without that information this thread is all speculation....

As is often the case in weight threads, it's time to get out the popcorn and enjoy the show!

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by KyDan

My question to the OP is "did you crawl under there and look for a rating sticker".

My axles have stickers that tell the weight rating. What do your stickers say?
What does your trailer weigh?
Have you had it to the truck scales and got an honest weight?

Without that information this thread is all speculation....

As is often the case in weight threads, it's time to get out the popcorn and enjoy the show!

x2............ My biggest concern is did you have your set up weighed......... I cringe at people that estimate what the rig weighs, or weighs their gear on a using a small scale without taking the trailer itself into the equation. The only answer is to take the entire set up loaded for camping to the scales.

Knowledge is the key.

[Murbella7]

Originally Posted by KFX450RXC

For what its worth, how often do we hear of truck rear axles breaking due to overloading? Same thing for camper axles. Its almost never heard of.

That's very true. So is the fact that you hear/read far too many stories of blown tires and flattened springs, all due to overloading and the main cause of that is because of over rated running gear. Looking through the various threads you can see numerous accounts of people putting more weight on the trailers than they should because the figures on the label say they can.

The towing vehicles are usually fine, most choices handle the load they are pulling without issue. But on the trailers, wheels, tires and spring sets.... not so. All because of penny pinching during manufacture. We have to foot the bill to upgrade because we expect the thing to do as advertised when it can't, at least not unless we upgrade. What makes it worse and makes me mad is that these issues are manufacturing defects yet if you try to get compensation you discover that the warranty is worthless. It cost me $5500 for new springs, modifications to spring mounts and new rims and tires, plus another $1000 for the repair and rewire job after our accident, because the rims and tires that came with the vehicle were not suitable for the load they were supposed to be able to handle.


The same thing happened when my fresh water tank exploded because its broken mounts allowed the tank to float around rubbing holes through the edges. That cost me another $4000. So while I love my 5er, I hate what it has cost me to make it safe and comfortable.

[Oaklevel]

I guess that I really do not understand but who knows, I have owned 5 campers over the years, have always weighed them and kept within the weight as to capacity posted. (For the trailer).

I have never needed to replace axles, tires, rims, nor had any serious issues. None of our friends have had serious issues either......... I own 5 cargo type trailers as well, probably have overloaded them but have no suspension issues either.

I have 16 China made tires currently on the ground on trailers, never had a blowout or flat........... in 35 years...............

[Murbella7]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

I guess that I really do not understand but who knows, I have owned 5 campers over the years, have always weighed them and kept within the weight as to capacity posted. (For the trailer).

I have never needed to replace axles, tires, rims, nor had any serious issues. None of our friends have had serious issues either......... I own 5 cargo type trailers as well, probably have overloaded them but have no suspension issues either.

I have 16 China made tires currently on the ground on trailers, never had a blowout or flat........... in 35 years...............

I think the big difference is, my unit was modified during construction (according to the dealer) and was imported into Australia. Maybe he changed a few things to save him money?

[Airdale]

On RV trailers, the axle manufacturer’s GAWR rating sticker on each individual axle may not be the true GAWR value for that trailer’s fitment. The Vehicle certification label GAWR values are the limiting values for all RV trailers.

The certification label is located externally on the forward LH side of the trailer.

The RV trailer’s limiting load factor is its GVWR. Because that is so, the axles will almost always be fully loaded when the trailer is fully loaded. The formula for GVWR on RV trailers goes like this; The sum of all vehicle certified axles, when added to the vehicle manufacturer’s recommended tongue weight must equal GVWR.

For cargo load limits look at the CCC label found in the trailer.

At the time of first sale all placards must be correct.

[Murbella7]

Originally Posted by Airdale

On RV trailers, the axle manufacturer’s GAWR rating sticker on each individual axle may not be the true GAWR value for that trailer’s fitment. The Vehicle certification label GAWR values are the limiting values for all RV trailers.

The certification label is located externally on the forward LH side of the trailer.

The RV trailer’s limiting load factor is its GVWR. Because that is so, the axles will almost always be fully loaded when the trailer is fully loaded. The formula for GVWR on RV trailers goes like this; The sum of all vehicle certified axles, when added to the vehicle manufacturer’s recommended tongue weight must equal GVWR.

For cargo load limits look at the CCC label found in the trailer.

At the time of first sale all placards must be correct.

You are right about the label, my unit has one, two actually. The trouble with that is, on its entry into Australia and later during the registration process, it seems no one bothered to weigh the vehicle and check the results against the label. Because around the time we purchased our unit the importer was bringing in 15 units per year, 5 at a time, (not sure what he does now, the sales rules changed with FR), the registration people were familiar with his imports and his paper work, so he gets it right once for the first load and no one has checked it since, they just stamp the papers and send him home.

Turns out the supplied figures on my labels are a fiction. I have since weighed the 5'er and my figures differ quite a bit from the label. I have been thinking about getting a new approved label, but that might make my rig illegal on our roads which in turn would call for major and expensive mods to the braking system and the truck. The 5'er undercarriage will not be a problem any more because I have already upgraded that. But the change in rating would mean I would need to fit air brakes and that is a very expensive upgrade, to both TT and TV.

[spock123]

How in the world is GVWR figured out

[CHICKDOE]

to airdale: in your post you make a statement "at time of first sale the all placards must be correct". I assume this is a law or regulation. yet when we bought our trailer (new) the placards were for load range e tires with a max psi of 80 pis yet the trailer had goodyear g614 load range g 110 psi tires on it and the spare. I contacted fr about this and they said to contact the dealer. I contracted the dealer and they sent a new placard still for the load range e tires and it had a lower gcvr figure on it. i'll try again to get this corrected.


but from what you say the actual tire rating isn't a factor in the gcwr of the trailer. you say it is the axle ratings plus the EXPECTED pin load. the expected pin load is probably the gross weight of the trailer times some factor.


this makes sense but boy are there variables in the real world. how you load the trailer (front to back) would affect pin weight. it would also affect axle loading as would whether the trailer was level or not. side to side loading would also make an impact on axles and tires. and finally tire inflation pressure.


all this screams at the need to go to a scale and verify all these limits. I have and so far we are ok, but we all know stuff seems to accumulate. time to unload everything and reassess what if truly needed before putting it back in. then another series of scale readings.


I only wish they enforced standards for road surfaces (such as absence of potholes) and contractor pickup trucks were not allowed to spill nails out the back.

[acadianbob]

It's interesting that some trailer/manufacturers will put out a trailer with minimal load capacity and tires/axles that are right on the edge. We've been fortunate enough to have bought trailer with plenty of excess load/tire/axle capacity. It is worth looking at when evaluating which trailer to buy. That excess capacity feels good driving down the road; whether it provides any real extra protection could be debatable but it feels good to me.

Our 29RLX has 5,200 pound axles/E-rated 16's. At the scale, I'm at 3,420 per axle semi-loaded. Lots of cushion.