ST vs. LT Tire problems

[TURBS]

10 4 on the towing over 65

[Herk7769]

I commented not to start, or continue, a flame war, but to present some additional information I got from an accredited source.

Anyone wishing to independently confirm this information with the source quoted is free to PM me for his phone number.

[jriddering]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Not all tires made in China are bad; just like all tires made in the USA are not "good." It is a question of price and quality control. Name brand tires, like Goodyear, Pirelli, Goodrich, etc, offer a second level of quality control over and above what is required by DoT.

Here is the web site for manufacturer codes:
DOT Codes

Here is how to "read" a tire:

For example: in the pictured tire, find the molded code MDHH right after the DOT
The first 2 digits are WHO actually made the tire.
In this case: Goodyear Rubber Company in Gadsden Alabama.

Look as well at the 4 numbers 2510
This is the manufacturing date code.
this tire was made in the 25th week of 2010

On the bottom of the DOT CODES is a link to the 2nd 2 digits which is tire size. Mine are DOT 83B4. Looking up for B4 is not my tire size. weird.

[Herk7769]

I will email Walter and see what he has to say...

I found this in the mean time:
DOT Number

All tires sold in Canada must have the "DOT" ((Department of Transportation), or tire identification number, moulded into the sidewall. Our tire has a DOT number of GHYT 4501. The first two characters after DOT indicate the manufacturer; the second two characters indicate the plant where the tire was manufactured.

Next you may see an optional string of three to four characters. Our example does not include this code. Most manufacturers use these to record company specific information about the tire, and, if necessary, use them as a guide when issuing product recalls. Because they are company specific, these codes are not standardized and are meaningful only to the manufacturer.

The last three or four digits give the date the tire was made. For all tires built after 1999, this will be a four-digit number with the first two digits giving the week number, and the last two giving the year. For many tires built previous to 2000, the date indicator will consist of three digits, the first two giving the week number and the last giving the last digit of the year. In our example tire, the last four digits of the DOT code are 4501, so our tire was made during the 45th week of 2001.

[Herk7769]

Walter's response:

"After the location code the codes become mfg. specific, you would have to contact your specific mfg for that. I am at a rally in Phoenix til next week, so I might not be able to get right back to you this week if any other questions come up, but I will try.
Thanks for your interest in Safety."

[TexasBBQ]

Thanks Lou.

For you folks that like to organize by files here's a crazy long a .pdf of the DOT codes.

Bill

[Pkdennis0504]

Ok - I feel so guilty about getting such great info free of charge, I feel like I need to send a payment for technical support. Maybe a beer if we ever meet will do. Thanks Lou and everyone for the research!

[klmurphy]

In addition to the ST vs LT debate, there may be other considerations that caused your blowout. We also have a 2010 Cardinal 3515 and last fall, after 15 months of ownership, had a Goodyear Marathon tire blow causing fenderskirt damage and frustration. To make a long story short, the shackle plates installed on the unit were too thin and the bolts had wallered larger holes (which you could not see) causing the tires to cup and deteriorate quickly. Forest River ended up paying for replacement of much heavier duty shackle plates, the 4 new tires we had to buy and damage to the unit. Will have to say they were very good about it. We did replace our tires with Goodyear Marathons because on previous trailers, including a large toyhauler, they held up well. Can't say whether they were made in China but just wanted to point out that you need to make sure nothing else caused the blowout other than tire failure.

[Herk7769]

For a long time I blamed my OEM Carlisle tires for a damaging blowout on my camper when it was about 13 months old.

When someone mentioned a "curb strike" as the cause of his blow out I remembered I had had one on that tire my second trip out. It most likely took a while for a broken belt wire to eventually cause a tire failure at speed 3 months later.

[Ca Cardinal]

Herk 7769
You can go with the information you get from all the experts you want but I would prefer to listen to the people who tow their trailers fully loaded for hundreds or thousands of miles a year and they all seem to have much better luck with LT tires than ST tires.

[cpaulsen]

Originally Posted by Ca Cardinal

Herk 7769
You can go with the information you get from all the experts you want but I would prefer to listen to the people who tow their trailers fully loaded for hundreds or thousands of miles a year and they all seem to have much better luck with LT tires than ST tires.

Same here....I have always used LT tires on my 5vers. Have BFGoodrich Commercial T/A LT235/85/R16 on it right now.

[Herk7769]

Information is only threatening if it does not agree with preconceived beliefs. Not sure who said that, but he or she deserves a medal.

In science and aviation, hard data is what is used to draw conclusions.
I like to provide that data if I have it (or can find it) so you can decide.
I try to provide free advice when folks ask for it, and I think I have something to add to the debate.
Free advice is worth every penny.

Sounds like you already decided what works for you; so safe camping my friends.

[Ca Cardinal]

I know this debate will probably go on forever but I read the www.cardinalrvclub.org website and it looks like the general concensus is the LT tires have had far far fewer issues than the ST tires.

My own limited personal experince has been I had three issues with the original Kenda Klevar St tires within 3 months and less than 1,000 miles of buying my trailer and no issues with Goodyear LT tires from April 2005 to June 2011 while I towed some where around 45,000 miles and now Michelin LT tires with around 9,000 miles and no issues.

[fonzie]

More info: http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires...plications.pdf

[MilCop4523]

KUMHO 857 tires
The Radial 857 is KUMHO's Euro-metric Commercial-sized special purpose tire designed for use on trailers. Radial 857 tires are not intended to be used on cars or light trucks.
On the outside, the Radial 857 features a 4-rib design to provide constant rubber-to-road contact that delivers dependable highway stability, traction and durability. Internally, the Radial 857 features twin steel belts that stabilize the tread to increase traction, while a 2-ply, polyester cord body helps even out the trailer's ride.
KUMHO Radial 857 tires feature blackwall styling and are available in
Q-speed rated 82-series, Load Range D (65 psi) Euro-metric Commercial sizes .
Special purpose trailer tires are not UTQG rated.
Taken from the Tire Rack site.

I'm confused... no really I am - but thats besides the point.

2 ply polyester cord body? and
Speed rated for 100mph?
I'm looking for 5 new tires for our 2012 Salem with 2000 miles on the originals.
I don't want to have to worry about making the wrong choice loosing the trailer and then having to live with the fact that a married man should forget his mistakes. There is no use in two people remembering the same thing!

[slingarian]

Tire problems plague my 5er. I bought my 39ft Cardinal 2 seasons ago from a couple that had purchased it, moved it 120ish miles parked it and lived in it for a year plus. This model has 4 slides, and was wearing its original set of 235/85/16 lr G tires.

Our first long trip took us from Mobile Al west along I10 as far as it would go, ending in CA. On the way I had 1 blowout ( nowhere Texas ) on the right rear tire on the 5th wheel. I put on the spare and limped to the next town where I played hell trying to find a load range G tire to rearm my spare, and when I did it was some brand I had never heard of. This scenario repeated itself once more while eastbound for home from Hoover dam. I contributed these two tire failures to the fact that they were the original tires and had seen some time just sitting about. There was no damage to the rig other than the loss of the tires. We made many small trips over the next 6 months (200 miles or less one way) with no further incident.

The next summer, we left Mobile headed for a friends in upstate NY. We didn't make it out of Alabama before I had another blowout. RF this time, and # 3 of the original tires. It was a Friday afternoon so we had to spend the weekend there before I could locate another no name spare on Monday when things opened up. We continued north and the same day not 4 hours from where we spend the weekend, boom! the right rear tire exploded. This tire was not one of the originals, but the no name spare that I had bought in Texas from blowout #1. Again we limped to the next town and found a tire shop that had the correct size tires ( unheard of brand again) This time I bought two of them, had one mounted on the spare rim, and carried the extra rubber in the truck.

We made it to my friends house in NY with no more problems where we spent 2 weeks. On the return journey I intercepted the next tire problem (on the last of the original tires) on my morning inspection before we got on the road. I found a large bulge on the sidewall of the tire and changed it out there in the campground. Now I am running with all new tires, all of the original tires have blown out or failed and I am running with only 2 tires of the same manufacture. We made it into Alabama and were only about 2 hours from home when you guessed it, BLAM! The left rear tire let go in a very loud way, and one large hunk of the belt and tire spun around like a weed eater from hell and pounded the surrounding area brutally, damaging the rearmost slide and side and floor of the 5th wheel. We limped the rest of the way back to Mobile, with calling and checking as we went south, trying to find a place that had another tire, and none existed, all the way back to Mobile. We made it home with the damaged camper and no spare. The resulting time in the repair shop yielded a bill of 5k+.

We haven't gone anywhere since the camper was repaired. It sits still on the mostly new but unmatched no name tires. I have been reading and calling around trying to figure the cause, but have come up with nothing. We were not overweight, I even run with all my fluid tanks empty.

My plan as of now is to purchase 4 new Goodyear G614 RST 235/85/16
tires and press on.

Please respond with any helpful suggestions.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by slingarian

My plan as of now is to purchase 4 new Goodyear G614 RST 235/85/16 tires and press on.
Please respond with any helpful suggestions.

Good luck with your new tires.

Nothing helpful except; when you lose a tire, the other tires are stressed by being forced to share the load of the missing tire.

Since most camper tires are already pretty close to their max listed weight, if one goes for an unknown reason (you can't narrow it down to road-trash or a curb strike on that tire for example), most likely the remaining tires have been stressed past their useful life.

While you would never do this on your car (but your car tires are not at their max rated load either), IMO new tires are very cheap insurance compared to the damage a blowout would cause.

This was especially true in your case where the tires were not used for at least two years and were exposed to the elements. By not using them, lubricants put into the rubber to keep them from drying out are not allowed to circulate in the rubber by the flexing of use and the surface was allowed to dry out. Most likely the heavy use you then exposed them to caused cracking between the treads (though they "looked good") which most likely lead to your blowouts.

[acadianbob]

Originally Posted by MilCop4523

KUMHO 857 tires
The Radial 857 is KUMHO's Euro-metric Commercial-sized special purpose tire designed for use on trailers. Radial 857 tires are not intended to be used on cars or light trucks.
On the outside, the Radial 857 features a 4-rib design to provide constant rubber-to-road contact that delivers dependable highway stability, traction and durability. Internally, the Radial 857 features twin steel belts that stabilize the tread to increase traction, while a 2-ply, polyester cord body helps even out the trailer's ride.
KUMHO Radial 857 tires feature blackwall styling and are available in
Q-speed rated 82-series, Load Range D (65 psi) Euro-metric Commercial sizes .
Special purpose trailer tires are not UTQG rated.
Taken from the Tire Rack site.

I'm confused... no really I am - but thats besides the point.

2 ply polyester cord body? and
Speed rated for 100mph?

I have these tires and they work great. They're only available in 14" though. They ARE 8 ply rated; LR D, 65 psi trailer tires. The 99 mph rating is for real. They were just the ticket for me. Went from LR C to LR D for more capacity and also don't need to worry about exceeding 65 mph on occasion; mostly the big downhills out West.

[TexasBBQ]

Not too long ago I purchased 4 Duravis R500s. I really like them due to constuction, design intent, ride, etc. The reviews I was able to find before the purchase was possiive and the tire shops I spoke to was unanimous of their positive comments when used on big trailers.

I ended up finding them at Costco for $177ea. Not the most expensive tire but not the cheapest. Obviously cost is not always an indicator of tire quaility. I plan on keeping these several years so the intended market of these tires was important to me.

I've had ST tires without any bad experience. This time I'm going LT because it just makes sense from construction and durability standpoint - for me anyway. It's personal preference.

I'll keep you posted how these run over the years - good or bad.

Duravis R500 HD: Bridgestone Tires

[MilCop4523]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

I have these tires and they work great. They're only available in 14" though. They ARE 8 ply rated; LR D, 65 psi trailer tires.

I take my trailer in tonight for an upgrade to the KUMHO 857's 235/70D/15's

5 installed and balanced with taxes and tire levy included $714.