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08-14-2018, 07:07 PM
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#1
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I'm Lost
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario
Posts: 1,341
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Stabilizer Jacks for stabilizing
Hi all, my first Thread!
I have a 2013 Rockwood 8310SS.
Has anyone experience in using tongue jacks for your corner stabilizers.
What issues do you foresee?
Will they wobble more than the existing power stabilizers?
Frame issues?
Have you done it, your experienced thoughts on how it worked.
There is room in existing cabinets for the power heads. There are possibly other spots to mount them just abaft of the bed slide (slightly staggered) using the WR vanity and rear section of the right side dresser, this would spread the stabilized load better between wheels and tongue jack.
I'd weld the mounts into the main and ladder frame corners, beef up so as to be stable, etc.
Pull up a camp chair, grab a Molson Canadian and let the fur fly!
Thanks,
Geoff
PS Reason for title is it may get more reads than using "Tongue jack for stabilizing".
__________________
Geoff, Francesca and Lucy the Golden holy terror (I mean retriever, BD Nov. 2018)
2023 F150 Screw, 3.5L, HDPP, LT tyres.
2013 Rockwood Signature 8310SS
2023 F150 Lariat 502A (After all rebates, price protection and dealer discounts, I saved $12,600Cdn. (Cavalcade Ford). If pays to shop dealers! (April 2023)
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08-14-2018, 07:37 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 9,865
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Ok I'll bite........... Why?????
You mentioned power jacks....... a lot of work and big $ for something that would probably be less stable...... cutting fairly large holes in the floor too ????
It probably could be done but they make power stabilizers for that.
__________________
2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
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08-14-2018, 09:08 PM
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#3
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I'm Lost
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario
Posts: 1,341
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As my post says, I already have Lippert electric stabilizers factory installed, current Amazon price $700+Cdn each, $1400 total.
Power stabilizers are not meant to take any real weight, check their instructions, FR in my manual says firm contact on ground plus no more than 2 seconds extra lift (hell, my stabilizers are stalling the motors by that time.
Motor homes for decades have had jack style stabilizers as an option or aftermarket add-on, they literally lift the chassis off the ground. All I am trying to do is take some of the weight off the axles which should stop most it not all the wobbling if the jacks don't have too much play in the lift tubes.
Costs:
On Amazon you can buy 3000# tongue jacks from $130 (no-name Jack Quick) to $330 for a Husky. So $800+ to $1300 for 4 jacks.
Our local welder will charge $150 to $250 to fabricate and weld on plates.
2 1/2" holes through floor, disassemble power heads, insert jack tube from below and reattach drives. Wire to a pendant in one of the storage bins.
Carpentry and wiring by self.
I dropped off the significant other yesterday with the grand-daughter for several days at Two Rivers, I counted 4 TTs in the immediate area with extra scissor jacks added temporarily or permanently to their TTs between existing stabilizers and the axles. As I drove out back to work I saw a 30+ foot fiver with bottle jacks under his/her back corners, one of the nearside wheels looked to be off the ground too.
My BIL has a 2016 Rockwood 8325SS, two years ago he added 2 more Lippert electric stabilizers mid way between the corners and axles for a total of 4 pairs, it has greatly improved his stability but still has some wobble.
We both use BAL 28005 Deluxe Tire Chocks (a tight wiggle fit but do just fit).
I am not looking at leveling the TT, that is done when I park it, just trying to improve the wiggle and bounce.
History, no newbie here, 35 years of TTs and according to trip logs, over 75,000km of RVing.
__________________
Geoff, Francesca and Lucy the Golden holy terror (I mean retriever, BD Nov. 2018)
2023 F150 Screw, 3.5L, HDPP, LT tyres.
2013 Rockwood Signature 8310SS
2023 F150 Lariat 502A (After all rebates, price protection and dealer discounts, I saved $12,600Cdn. (Cavalcade Ford). If pays to shop dealers! (April 2023)
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08-14-2018, 09:13 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 9,559
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And after all that time and experience, the bounce/wobble still bothers you? It is on wheels, it will always have movement.
__________________
Scott and Liz - Southern NM
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL - w/level up (best option ever)
2007 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Reese Fifth Airborne Sidewinder
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08-14-2018, 10:12 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lodi CA
Posts: 1,211
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Best mod I did to mine was put two scissor jacks just behind the rear axle got rid of all the bounce from the axles. Hardly ever use my electric stabilizers. They are permanently attached and are rated 10000lbs I use my battery powered drill and they are down in a matter of a few seconds and only cost $20 each and using them with the Jt's it is rock solid now. I have several trailers with different style tongue jacks and none of them are steady when extended as there is slop in the extension tubes in all of them I would think it would make your movement worse.
__________________
2001 Ford F-350 DRW 7.3
2011 25 RL Wildcat
former fiver 1976 Fourwinds had for 35 years
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08-14-2018, 11:28 PM
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#6
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I'm Lost
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario
Posts: 1,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMWildcat
And after all that time and experience, the bounce/wobble still bothers you? It is on wheels, it will always have movement.
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See we're all different, it obviously from your remark the shake and wobble doesn't bother you but it does me (I'm a persnickety arsehole according to my staff), 2 of those TTs I owned were nearly as steady as rocks, different heavy duty stabs.
Now I am beginning to have a bit more time available I want to minimize the motion especially with young grandkids running around.
My next neighbour 3 clicks down the road has a 38' MH, with the hydraulic gear down it is solid, so depending on various things it can be done. Oh, by the way his MH is on wheels.
Geoff
__________________
Geoff, Francesca and Lucy the Golden holy terror (I mean retriever, BD Nov. 2018)
2023 F150 Screw, 3.5L, HDPP, LT tyres.
2013 Rockwood Signature 8310SS
2023 F150 Lariat 502A (After all rebates, price protection and dealer discounts, I saved $12,600Cdn. (Cavalcade Ford). If pays to shop dealers! (April 2023)
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08-14-2018, 11:38 PM
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#7
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I'm Lost
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario
Posts: 1,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onetonford
Best mod I did to mine was put two scissor jacks just behind the rear axle got rid of all the bounce from the axles. Hardly ever use my electric stabilizers. They are permanently attached and are rated 10000lbs I use my battery powered drill and they are down in a matter of a few seconds and only cost $20 each and using them with the Jt's it is rock solid now. I have several trailers with different style tongue jacks and none of them are steady when extended as there is slop in the extension tubes in all of them I would think it would make your movement worse.
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Thanks for the reply.
That slop in the tubes is what bothers me too and I'm assuming it wouldn't negate the motion.
I was hoping using inexpensive power jacks would be a poor man's hydraulic stabilizer solution.
Again this forum will give me answers like yours to form a reasonable fix.
In 2 years I hope to be back to boondocking across Northern Canada and the northwestern US all summer/fall as I was able to up to 15 years ago.
Thanks,
Geoff
__________________
Geoff, Francesca and Lucy the Golden holy terror (I mean retriever, BD Nov. 2018)
2023 F150 Screw, 3.5L, HDPP, LT tyres.
2013 Rockwood Signature 8310SS
2023 F150 Lariat 502A (After all rebates, price protection and dealer discounts, I saved $12,600Cdn. (Cavalcade Ford). If pays to shop dealers! (April 2023)
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08-15-2018, 04:55 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 9,865
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Personally I think a combination of X chocks and JT Strong arms (or similar) would give you the same result without knowing more about your current set up.
__________________
2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
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08-15-2018, 11:19 AM
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#9
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I'm Lost
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario
Posts: 1,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaklevel
Personally I think a combination of X chocks and JT Strong arms (or similar) would give you the same result without knowing more about your current set up.
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Hi Oaklevel,
Have enjoyed your many posts.
I have a set of BAL 28005 Deluxe Tire Chocks (note, on my TT the wheels are so close the chocks only just fit when compressed so check your spacing before you buy)
The strong arms are a possibility too but they add in several more pivot points that may still allow the wiggle. Both last year and this year I was invited into strangers rigs with these installed and did notice some motion, enough I would say to make a drink vibrate; remember I am too persnickety!
One of my past TTs had the crank down stabs mounted 45 degrees to the longitudinal axis, this 27' Jayco trailer was very stable, just a slight bounce over the axles.
When I've viewed my stabs with people walking inside they wobble side to side just as the wheels do slightly with the chocks fitted. Also the way FR mounted them was rather poorly thought out, maybe I can add more iron to the mounts to beef them up. But again, these things are very flimsy.
Maybe the ideal set-up would be have the end stabs in line with the frame then 2 more set 90 or 45 degrees to the trailer axis between the wheels and end stabilizers (at both ends, so 4 in total side stabs and the 4 end units)?
Geoff
__________________
Geoff, Francesca and Lucy the Golden holy terror (I mean retriever, BD Nov. 2018)
2023 F150 Screw, 3.5L, HDPP, LT tyres.
2013 Rockwood Signature 8310SS
2023 F150 Lariat 502A (After all rebates, price protection and dealer discounts, I saved $12,600Cdn. (Cavalcade Ford). If pays to shop dealers! (April 2023)
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08-15-2018, 01:29 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Stockdale Texas
Posts: 448
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.
My next neighbour 3 clicks down the road has a 38' MH, with the hydraulic gear down it is solid, so depending on various things it can be done. Oh, by the way his MH is on wheels.
Comparing Apples to Oranges here. MH's have totally different suspension than a TT. The last thing I would do is cut holes in my TT floor for stabilizers. Then you will be posting about rodents in your camper. We have a 38' TT and has the tongue jack, 2 stabilizers about 3' behind the front of the camper, 2 leveler jacks behind the axles and 2 more stabilizers about 6' behind them. No bounce or wiggle in our camper.
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08-15-2018, 02:12 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lodi CA
Posts: 1,211
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Right now I have used the scissor jacks to lift up the trailer to remove all four tires for replacement. I have also put two jack stands on frame just in case and also have four jack stands on axles to keep them from letting the spring equalizers from flipping over the shackles (they are a bear to get back to normal). The trailer as it now sits is rock solid if I were just using the axles stands then it would have a bounce from the springs.
__________________
2001 Ford F-350 DRW 7.3
2011 25 RL Wildcat
former fiver 1976 Fourwinds had for 35 years
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08-15-2018, 02:15 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 161
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These homemade stabilizers work great And cost around $12! I strive for a motionless RV and pretty much achieved it. I put one pair on the front tucked into the frame and one pair on the rear. Only difference from the drawing is that I didn't have to notch the 2x4's as the frame is shaped like this: ] so it tucks into the top corner of the frame.
-Rich
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08-15-2018, 02:15 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Waukee, IA
Posts: 566
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The OP is right in that Lippert power stabilizers are not to be used to level a trailer. To each his own, but I just don't find it that hard to level up first and then drop the stabs. For me it would be too much money, too much added weight, to many new holes in the floor and just too mush work.
__________________
'19 Chevy Colorado Z71 4x4 Crew Cab
'17 Salem Cruise Lite 232RBXL
Mickey the Rescue Project Schnauzer
Days Camped: '17-39, '18-61, '19-64, '20-38
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08-15-2018, 02:43 PM
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#14
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,173
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If you're going to go through that much expense, why not just invest in an auto-levelling system? There was a vendor at the rally a couple of years ago I was talking to, at that time (2016?) they wanted like $1200 for an auto levelling system to be installed on my TT. Too rich for me then, so I didn't follow through, but they are out there. The only thing I'm sure about is it wasn't Lippert. Lippert makes the Ground Control unit that's on my current rig, but these were somebody else I was talking to back then.
__________________
There's no use crying over spilt milk... unless it's on your keyboard.
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08-15-2018, 03:45 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Athens
Posts: 685
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Totally off topic but oh how I wish I was at Two Rivers for the next two days! Just setting up at Santa's Village for two days. Give me strength lol
__________________
Phil, Heather & Olaf the Boxer
Ontario Canada
Lexington 283GTS
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08-15-2018, 04:41 PM
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#16
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Pickin', Campin', Mason
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Western PA
Posts: 19,142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaadk
If you're going to go through that much expense, why not just invest in an auto-levelling system? There was a vendor at the rally a couple of years ago I was talking to, at that time (2016?) they wanted like $1200 for an auto levelling system to be installed on my TT. Too rich for me then, so I didn't follow through, but they are out there. The only thing I'm sure about is it wasn't Lippert. Lippert makes the Ground Control unit that's on my current rig, but these were somebody else I was talking to back then.
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^^This^^ is what I'd do if wanting what the OP described. Level your rig and stability all in the same system. No holes to cut in the floor either. Electric auto-leveling systems can be added to most anything.
__________________
2022 Cedar Creek 345IK 5th Wheel•Solar & Inverter•2024 Ford F-Series SCREW•7.3L•4x4•Factory Puck•B&W Companion•TST Tire Monitor w/Repeater•Sinemate 3500w Gen.
F&AM Lodge 358 Somerset, PA - JAFFA Shrine - Altoona, PA
Days Camped ☼ '19=118 ☼ '20=116 ☼ '21=123 ☼ '22=134 ☼ '23=118☼ '24=90
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08-15-2018, 06:35 PM
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#17
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I'm Lost
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario
Posts: 1,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onetonford
Right now I have used the scissor jacks to lift up the trailer to remove all four tires for replacement. I have also put two jack stands on frame just in case and also have four jack stands on axles to keep them from letting the spring equalizers from flipping over the shackles (they are a bear to get back to normal). The trailer as it now sits is rock solid if I were just using the axles stands then it would have a bounce from the springs.
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Thanks for the input.
The common problem as discussed in multiple other threads and other manufacturers owners groups is the wheels and their alignment with the longitudinal axis of the TT, this inherently causes wobble fore and aft.
Strong arms on the stabs and X chocks on the wheels are only patching the root problem; your scissor jacks are lifting some/all of the weight from the wheels and removing the wobble.
The scissor jacks will hang too low for my trips along the power line goat trails that Ontario Hydro calls roads, and again, I am installing the Dexter lift kits to gain another 2+" of ride height.
Basically I'm looking for a cheap, well thought out lazy man's way to do what you're doing with a pendant and it's 4 rocker switches.
Thanks again, food for thought.
Geoff
__________________
Geoff, Francesca and Lucy the Golden holy terror (I mean retriever, BD Nov. 2018)
2023 F150 Screw, 3.5L, HDPP, LT tyres.
2013 Rockwood Signature 8310SS
2023 F150 Lariat 502A (After all rebates, price protection and dealer discounts, I saved $12,600Cdn. (Cavalcade Ford). If pays to shop dealers! (April 2023)
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08-15-2018, 07:16 PM
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#18
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I'm Lost
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario
Posts: 1,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard58
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My next neighbour 3 clicks down the road has a 38' MH, with the hydraulic gear down it is solid, so depending on various things it can be done. Oh, by the way his MH is on wheels.
Comparing Apples to Oranges here. MH's have totally different suspension than a TT. The last thing I would do is cut holes in my TT floor for stabilizers. Then you will be posting about rodents in your camper. We have a 38' TT and has the tongue jack, 2 stabilizers about 3' behind the front of the camper, 2 leveler jacks behind the axles and 2 more stabilizers about 6' behind them. No bounce or wiggle in our camper.
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Firstly I was being mildly sarcastic to NMWildcat's remark that anything with wheels will always have movement (we arsehole Brits are like that, being mildly anything, refer to post #6). In no way was I comparing the frame structure of a truck chassis to a TT.
#2
Look at the last para in post #9, it is somewhat similar to what you do on your trailer, now I have someone else's experienced input (yours) with a similar set-up that actually works, this is the input I am looking for.
#3
No I am not going to wine about "rodents" in this forum as it has been a problem since I bought this TT new. I was very disappointed and disillusioned that a $40,000cdn TT would have a mouse problem. I live and work in a remote bush area, we have multiple staff and guest cabins ranging from brand new to 70 years old, the majority over 40 years; some built of logs, all on "pad on grade" foundations aka no footings and we are 95% mouse free, our guests pay up to $900 per couple per night, they don't want deer mice in their beds.
I find that a modern trailer manufacturer like FR building our mobile homes should and can build mouse proof boxes in their climate controlled buildings, if not then hire some people with bush country experience. I have so far found 14 possible and or actual ingress points for rodents to enter my Signature 8310SS, 2 of them were 2" diameter holes with a 1/2" PEX pipe going through as a drain, hidden back in under the fridge area. I believe I have found another in the back of the wheel well, I'll check this weekend.
So no if I cut any holes, as I have when I relocated my twin golf cart batteries to the rear compartment, I will professionally finish the job to much higher standards than FR ever has.
OK my one and only rant about mice and FR products.
Geoff
__________________
Geoff, Francesca and Lucy the Golden holy terror (I mean retriever, BD Nov. 2018)
2023 F150 Screw, 3.5L, HDPP, LT tyres.
2013 Rockwood Signature 8310SS
2023 F150 Lariat 502A (After all rebates, price protection and dealer discounts, I saved $12,600Cdn. (Cavalcade Ford). If pays to shop dealers! (April 2023)
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08-15-2018, 10:41 PM
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#19
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I'm Lost
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario
Posts: 1,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedubya
The OP is right in that Lippert power stabilizers are not to be used to level a trailer. To each his own, but I just don't find it that hard to level up first and then drop the stabs. For me it would be too much money, too much added weight, to many new holes in the floor and just too mush work.
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To me it's an engineering problem screaming out to me to fix!
You're right about the weight issue, not sure what the diff is between four jacks verses 2 Lipperts. cost for the jacks and mounting plates are about the same up here in the Great White North. So body mods are by me during my paid winter layoff.
Geoff
__________________
Geoff, Francesca and Lucy the Golden holy terror (I mean retriever, BD Nov. 2018)
2023 F150 Screw, 3.5L, HDPP, LT tyres.
2013 Rockwood Signature 8310SS
2023 F150 Lariat 502A (After all rebates, price protection and dealer discounts, I saved $12,600Cdn. (Cavalcade Ford). If pays to shop dealers! (April 2023)
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08-15-2018, 11:13 PM
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#20
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I'm Lost
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Algonquin Provincial Park, Ontario
Posts: 1,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsmasma
Totally off topic but oh how I wish I was at Two Rivers for the next two days! Just setting up at Santa's Village for two days. Give me strength lol
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Hi Phil, Heather,
My sig other is there with the youngest (3yr) grandchild. She booked way back in the spring and could only get a site at Rock Lake, so Monday at 8am she hit Mew then Two Rivers and got a cancellation at Two R. called me as I was inbound with the TT so I diverted to there, she called Rock Lake and cancelled and received all money back except processing fee.
Two Rivers/Mew are close to Arowhon Rd so I can scoot down a couple of evenings after work. Come Monday I pull TT out (day off) and put back into storage.
There are 5 to 10% first come first served sites in each of the CGs but you need to be there at 8am. Another spot there usually is sites is Brent (near Mattawa, 2 hours north of Bracebridge then another 30 minutes in on a 39km gravel road), but they have no hook-ups, great quiet site with great fishing and moose watching.
Enjoy your stay in Bracebridge,
Geoff & Francesca
__________________
Geoff, Francesca and Lucy the Golden holy terror (I mean retriever, BD Nov. 2018)
2023 F150 Screw, 3.5L, HDPP, LT tyres.
2013 Rockwood Signature 8310SS
2023 F150 Lariat 502A (After all rebates, price protection and dealer discounts, I saved $12,600Cdn. (Cavalcade Ford). If pays to shop dealers! (April 2023)
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