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Old 10-29-2015, 12:09 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by gectisme View Post
MilCop4523,
Let preface this by saying I am new to TT's so I am in a heavy learning curve.

My WindJammer has ST225/75R15 tires and they have a speed rating of 75mph, why do you say all ST tires have a max speed rating of 65? Maybe I am missing some info?

Nope you are not missing anything.

The Speed rating of ST tires is very new. Started in early 2015
You are one of the lucky ones that have tires from a company that stepped up to the challenge. This means your tires are made more like latest technology as used in most other P type and LT type tires and not technology from 1970
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:26 PM   #162
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Tires are an interesting subject as I have no idea when ST tires started being used I suspect in the grand scheme is has not been that long. Maybe in the 1990s....... My 1988 Terry came with "P" rated tires but it only weighed 4500 lbs . The first trailer I owned with STs was the 1994 box trailer but not sure if they were the originals.

As far as why Cunningham will only use ST tires on a trailer I too suspect its liability but do not know he stays so busy he opened the 2 other stores. But his prices are hard to beat.... at least in our area......

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Old 10-29-2015, 12:27 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Oaklevel View Post
Tires are an interesting subject as I have no idea when ST tires started being used I suspect in the grand scheme is has not been that long. Maybe in the 1990s....... My 1988 Terry came with "P" rated tires but it only weighed 4500 lbs . The first trailer I owned with STs was the 1994 box trailer but not sure if they were the originals.

As far as why Cunningham will only use ST tires on a trailer I too suspect its liability but do not know he stays so busy he opened the 2 other stores. But his prices are hard to beat.... at least in our area......

I had an 1988 terry as well with p tires.
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Old 10-29-2015, 01:32 PM   #164
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On my 30RL the tire pressure was max 80lb, with the Goodyear LT the max tire pressure is 110lb


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Old 10-29-2015, 01:43 PM   #165
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My rims are not stamped anywhere ST only. My situation was that Black tire in NC just refused to put on anything except ST. That could be there policy, they also said that, I have the opportunity to have another shop put on LT. But they refused by there policy and I guess what they think is a liability issue. Is there one I doubt it, but that is there policy. They also read the pressure rated stamped inside, and said the most I could move up was from "C" to "D". So I bought Marathon ST "D" rated....

I have let Blacks balance my tires before but if I buy tires now the first place I look is Walmart online. Walmart will sell a road hazard warranty on LT tires and Blacks will not. If I can't buy the tires at Walmart then I know someone that just sells tires and he will beat Blacks price.


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Old 10-29-2015, 02:22 PM   #166
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there are triple axle toy haulers and other large 5th wheels....now i don't know what tires are on there...i had a triple axle gooseneck trailer [six tires not 12]...i was amazed at seeing the flexing and scuffing going on at slow speed turns....with news of blowouts and people getting killed i can see tire dealers being weary about right application [on account of lawyers]... but 2 axle trailers ...guess you still have to strive for right application....18000lb gw to 4500 gross weight.
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Old 10-29-2015, 02:53 PM   #167
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What I don't understand is how RV companies can claim the tires they select are the only ones appropriate for use on the RV given that they are not willing to stand behind their choice and offer a meaningful warranty on the tires they have selected. Can you provide a list of RV companies that offer multi-year warranties on these special tires that were so carefully selected by the RV company?

Itís not so much the selection process that counts. Itís the fact that the vehicle manufacturer has certified their use on the federal certification label. All P=passenger, LT=light truck an ST=special trailer tires are authorized for use on RV trailers. But because one manufacturer uses LT tires does not open the door for their use on other brands or models.

IMO the "misapplication" is not much more than a back door escape clause to be used when a company does not want to stand behind their product or when they can point to the fact that the change from OE size resulted in a decrease in load capacity or lower speed capabilities or perhaps the use of a highway tire in off-road application or summer tire in winter driving.

There are loopholes in all regulations and standards. But, without the basic regulations and standards for replacing OE tires the process would be haphazard at best.

Could you provide links to warranty literature that says that the use of an LT tire in any application where an LT was not the OE application would void the warranty?

http://media.michelinman.com/content/dam/master/Michelin/pdf/Owners_Manual_Post_Promise_Plan.pdf - page 3

http://www.keystonerv.com/media/728922/owners_manual_final_4-25-13.pdf - page 18

Given your apparent position, I trust that you would consider it a misapplication if an owner wanted to use LT type tires on small pick-up trucks that were delivered with passenger type tires. Maybe you could ask one of those knowledgeable people to contact me so they can educate me as to the design features in an LT tire that would make it deficient for application on a trailer or make it somehow deficient if ever used on a small pick-up that was delivered with passenger type tires.

The automotive fitments have other rules that provide listings of acceptable replacements. The process is not compatible with the RV trailer tire fitment rules. And, what you have presented above is a plus sizing situation. The industry has clear steps of procedures for such fitments.

The concept that an LT type tire that exceeds both the load capacity and speed rating and warranty time of the ST tire it was replacing is somehow deficient seems like a long stretch considering the fact that the RV company can not demonstrate having done any technical evaluation for the selection of tires for use on the RV other than meeting the needed load capacity published in some letter of booklet.

Somewhere in the tire manufacturing process the parties building tires and RV trailers met to determine the needs of the trailer builders. In that process the TRA must have got involved and produced tire sizes and inflation charts for those sizes. itís a no brainier selecting the correct tire from such listings. RV trailer manufacturers build to a GVWR.

I have never heard the term "LT Hybrid" before. It is not recognized in US Tire & Rim Association spec book. Where can I learn about this new type of tire?


I used the word hybrid (composed of mixed parts) because I feel itís a needed term for such tires as the GY G614s that are LT235/85R16G tires with ďfor trailer use onlyĒ printed right on their sidewalls.

The strict rule that only the replacement of the OE tire with an exact replacement creates significant problems for a few trailer owners. I have identified a few applications when the tire selected and provided by the RV company does not follow the published load and inflation tables and in fact is only allowed because that specific tire importer submitted a letter to NHTSA claiming that the tire was capable of carrying the load that would allow the tires to meet the load capacity requirements in federal regulations. I got this information directly from NHTSA when questioning how it was legal for a tire to be supplied when the load capacity molded on the tire did not meet the GAWR. Nowhere in the literature from the RV company was the manufacturer of that brand tire identified as the only acceptable replacements.

As I understand it such letters would be necessary for tires of the same size and load range that have more than one published load capacity. That would be the ST235/80R16E which has published load capacities of 3420#, 3500# and 3520# all at 80 psi. Without documentation they would all default to the lowest published load capacity making the 3420# tires unsuitable for use on GAWRs of 6840# or more.

As a side note. In all that RV literature that you read have you ever seen a mention of the max speed rating of the tires the RV company has selected as appropriate? I would think that this is an important bit of information for them to provide the prospective owner of the RV.

As it would also be for cars and pick-up trucks.
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Old 10-29-2015, 03:17 PM   #168
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I just checked with my insurance carrier and was advised in Canada at least if i were to install LT tires (which in the same size and inflation limits) have a lighter carrying of weight ratio and had an accident - my insurance would be voided.

That being said the ST tires have a max continuious spped rating of 65 miles per hour - which most highway haulers exceed for sustained periods causing temp breakdown.
I had switched out our biasply Chineese tires and put Kumho Eurometrics on in the LT format on our 2012 Salem when we had it becasue they were still over the capabilities of the weight being loaded.

I'd rather be safe than dead or sorry that my installing LT's on my 5th wheel which is heavier could cause a slim margin of being acceptable.
we went with the Maxxis 8008's instead.
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Old 10-29-2015, 08:25 PM   #169
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I just checked with my insurance carrier and was advised in Canada at least if i were to install LT tires (which in the same size and inflation limits) have a lighter carrying of weight ratio and had an accident - my insurance would be voided.

That being said the ST tires have a max continuious spped rating of 65 miles per hour - which most highway haulers exceed for sustained periods causing temp breakdown.
I had switched out our biasply Chineese tires and put Kumho Eurometrics on in the LT format on our 2012 Salem when we had it becasue they were still over the capabilities of the weight being loaded.

I'd rather be safe than dead or sorry that my installing LT's on my 5th wheel which is heavier could cause a slim margin of being acceptable.
we went with the Maxxis 8008's instead.
Did you ask if your coverage would be void if the replacement tires had equal or greater load capacity plus higher speed capability than the tires being replaced?
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:20 AM   #170
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Did you ask if your coverage would be void if the replacement tires had equal or greater load capacity plus higher speed capability than the tires being replaced?
To answer your specific questions above:

Yes this was asked
their answer was I would be insured however,
and there always seems to be a however...

"The specific design of the ST trailer tires side wall is such that it will withstand flexion and side wall impacts to a greater degree than LT's.
Curb scuffing plus up to 90 degree spot turns aka scrubbing twists ST tires core design - something which P and LT truck tires would not be exposed to on a repeated basis...."

"Whereas ST tires are industry designed for Travel Trailers and LT truck tires are designed for trucks and not trailers- there is no manner in which we the underwriter can insure that if you have LT tires on your trailer that they have not met with a degree of normal use that would not have caused the failure to which an ST trailer tire would have withstood."

In our remembering that the tires replacing the originals must meet the
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) limits specified by the manufacturer (found on a decal on the trailer) made up of the unit itself plus the actual weight of the items used to fully load the trailer, including all cargo, fluids, and optional equipment, as measured by a scale.

for instance:
on the 2012 Salem we had the original tires were a bias ply -
swithed to radials but in a Eurometric "E" rated tire which surpassed the original tires in both weight and speed capabilities.

Another thing that was mentioned by 3 tire businesses here was that
a one spec size wider on the rimsize would add stability to the trailer. As a result 2 dealers spec'ed my original rims out to see if they would support for air pressure increase with that different tire config.

I was also reminded that increasing air pressure does not increase load carrying ability of the tire...

Whereas the replacement tires exceeded the manufacturers minimum specs for both weight distribution and speed capabilities and the rims were capable of sustaining the air pressure increase - if we had an accident - we would be covered. The eurometric tires are used overseas for trailer towing and commercial applications. They are different than LT truck tires.

For the 2009 Sundance - heavier trailer
No LT tire would match the weight classification in the 225/R75/15 tire size. Close but with the loaded amount - just short.

so we had to settle for ST's.
We tow with a TST monitoring system and watch the readouts as part of my cursory checks while driving.

I've seen no appreciatable increase in tire temp if hauling at 110 kms an hour vs the 104 (65mph). Weight is distrubuted as even as possible.

Insurance claims are one of 3 things you can't cheat on and they will always get the better of you in their favor.

The other 2 are Death and Taxes.

i guess as far as my family is concerned if the tires i am replacing with are a better standard originally used, (and that includes the side wall configuration as well as load capacity and speed rating) then it makes sense.

To merely switch from an ST tire to an LT tire because I can get more speed out of it but loose the sidewall durability - I'll choose my tire wisely for my families sake and the sake of safety to others on the road.

I'm still suprized that some manufacturers are legally permitted to use bias ply tires.
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