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Old 10-30-2015, 07:36 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by spock123 View Post
On my 30RL the tire pressure was max 80lb, with the Goodyear LT the max tire pressure is 110lb


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I'm not a tire SME but I've been urged to be aware that the rims on my 5th wheel may or may not be capable of handling the increased pressure of a different tire as to what you are referring to.

last thing i would want is my rim splitting on one or all 4 rims driving down the I-95.

increasing pressure in the tire apparently by all literature does not increase load carrying ability of the tire itself.
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Old 10-30-2015, 10:15 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by MilCop4523 View Post
I'm not a tire SME but I've been urged to be aware that the rims on my 5th wheel may or may not be capable of handling the increased pressure of a different tire as to what you are referring to.

last thing i would want is my rim splitting on one or all 4 rims driving down the I-95.

increasing pressure in the tire apparently by all literature does not increase load carrying ability of the tire itself.

That's what it says on the tire and also on the side of camper. 110lb, what would do put less?


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Old 10-30-2015, 11:43 AM   #173
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spock123

to answer your last question...
I would question the following:
your original post states "On my 30RL the tire pressure was max 80 lb, with the Goodyear LT the max tire pressure is 110 lb"

then you added

"That's what it says on the tire and also on the side of camper. 110lb, what would do put less?"

Not being familiar with your trailer, I would have to question why the manufacturer posted the MAX cold air pressure is 110 lbs on the trailer and install tires rated for a MAX of 80lbs as you state were on it.

If you followed the vehicle spec label wouldn't you be at risk of having service technicians over pressuring the tires and thereby increase the risk of tire blow out at the 110 lb trailer designation on a max 80 lb tire limitation?

For example I replaced the "P" rated tires on my truck to "LT" tires for hauling the trailer.

If you underinflated the tires you would risk tire damage would you not?


Every time the dealership servicing my truck for air pressure adjustment they look at the vehicle sheet on the door regardless of the type of tires installed. I always have 36 lbs in it when they should be 55 lbs. Excessive Tire wear is probable if the condition persists.

If you've had or know someone who has had even one issue with a trailer (and you know plenty by simply being on the forum here) never put all your faith in the sticker.


Normally Trailer rims are stamped on the back with "max load" and "max pressure"

To answer your question of:


"That's what it says on the tire and also on the side of camper. 110 lb, what would do put less?"

Logic dictates that before I put 110 lbs in as per the Goodyear tire MAX cold air pressure stipulations, I'd be sure the rim to which the tire is attached could hold the 110 lbs for the upgraded tire requirements.

Simply put - I'd check the back side of the rim for specs to be reassured that the manufacturer didn't make a human error.




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Old 10-30-2015, 12:52 PM   #174
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On my 30RL the tires were Westlake st max air on tire 80lb. On my 32RL that I have now, Goodyear LT tires max air 110lb. The Westlake worked for me, I kept them at 80lb and a 507 TPMS on them. I keep the Goodyear tires at 100lb. Should I trade for a Cedar Creek 36CKTS the Goodyear LT tires that I have now will be put on the new camper and the st tires that come on the new camper will be put on the camper that I have now.


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Old 10-30-2015, 01:21 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilCop4523 View Post
To answer your specific questions above:

Yes this was asked
their answer was I would be insured however,
and there always seems to be a however...

"The specific design of the ST trailer tires side wall is such that it will withstand flexion and side wall impacts to a greater degree than LT's.
Curb scuffing plus up to 90 degree spot turns aka scrubbing twists ST tires core design - something which P and LT truck tires would not be exposed to on a repeated basis...."

Have to wonder where that person is getting their information. Can they point to any industry standard of government regulatory test for the above conditions? IMO this sounds like a nice excuse to deny coverage while accepting no responsibility for demonstrating a tire is capable of passing some fictious test criteria.


"Whereas ST tires are industry designed for Travel Trailers and LT truck tires are designed for trucks and not trailers- there is no manner in which we the underwriter can insure that if you have LT tires on your trailer that they have not met with a degree of normal use that would not have caused the failure to which an ST trailer tire would have withstood."

In our remembering that the tires replacing the originals must meet the
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) limits specified by the manufacturer (found on a decal on the trailer) made up of the unit itself plus the actual weight of the items used to fully load the trailer, including all cargo, fluids, and optional equipment, as measured by a scale.

for instance:
on the 2012 Salem we had the original tires were a bias ply -
swithed to radials but in a Eurometric "E" rated tire which surpassed the original tires in both weight and speed capabilities.

Another thing that was mentioned by 3 tire businesses here was that
a one spec size wider on the rimsize would add stability to the trailer. As a result 2 dealers spec'ed my original rims out to see if they would support for air pressure increase with that different tire config.

I was also reminded that increasing air pressure does not increase load carrying ability of the tire...
Have to wonder if the person writing this has informed the US Tire & Rim Association and the equivalent organization in Asia JATMA or in Europe ETRTO or the US DOT that all their references to Load and inflation tables is wrong. I would really enjoy having a discussion with that person.

Whereas the replacement tires exceeded the manufacturers minimum specs for both weight distribution and speed capabilities and the rims were capable of sustaining the air pressure increase - if we had an accident - we would be covered. The eurometric tires are used overseas for trailer towing and commercial applications. They are different than LT truck tires.

For the 2009 Sundance - heavier trailer
No LT tire would match the weight classification in the 225/R75/15 tire size. Close but with the loaded amount - just short.

so we had to settle for ST's.
We tow with a TST monitoring system and watch the readouts as part of my cursory checks while driving.

I've seen no appreciatable increase in tire temp if hauling at 110 kms an hour vs the 104 (65mph). Weight is distrubuted as even as possible.

Insurance claims are one of 3 things you can't cheat on and they will always get the better of you in their favor.

The other 2 are Death and Taxes.

i guess as far as my family is concerned if the tires i am replacing with are a better standard originally used, (and that includes the side wall configuration as well as load capacity and speed rating) then it makes sense.

To merely switch from an ST tire to an LT tire because I can get more speed out of it but loose the sidewall durability - I'll choose my tire wisely for my families sake and the sake of safety to others on the road.

I'm still suprized that some manufacturers are legally permitted to use bias ply tires.
Have to wonder what excuse the person giving this incorrect and un-scientific information would use for a denial for insurance coverage on any ST tire with a belt separation. After all belt separation does not involve road hazard only tire design and tire operating conditions and since they are claiming ST tires meet some special secrete performance criteria, they must have data to support and justify their position.
Maybe you should let the person that made the claims know that you will use their statements as justification for any claim for coverage of any ST tire failure that cannot be proven to involve puncture or road hazard.

Watch em tap dance around that one.
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Old 10-30-2015, 01:24 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilCop4523 View Post
I'm not a tire SME but I've been urged to be aware that the rims on my 5th wheel may or may not be capable of handling the increased pressure of a different tire as to what you are referring to.

last thing i would want is my rim splitting on one or all 4 rims driving down the I-95.

increasing pressure in the tire apparently by all literature does not increase load carrying ability of the tire itself.
Did you mis-state? and intent to say

increasing pressure in the tire apparently by all literature does not increase load carrying ability of the wheel itself.

Your wheel may have a max load capacity number stamped on it. I would contact the wheel company concerning wheel load & inflation capacity which is separate from tire load, inflation and speed capacity.
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Old 10-30-2015, 03:09 PM   #177
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Although it is an across the board fact, Goodyear is the only ST tire manufacturer to take advantage of this procedure outlined in the reference below.

Without vehicle manufacturer approval I doubt it would be valid.

Another thing to note in the PDF is the GY implied approval for using LT tires as replacements as long as they meet the load requirement of the tires they are replacing.

ON Edit: After worrying a bit about what I said above I went and looked at the GY LT tire warranty. There are two disturbing statements that would disallow the use of LT tires to replace original equipment ST tires. One is their statement about what is a comparable tire and the other is their statement about misapplications. Here is a copy of the warranty, you can be the judge.

https://www.goodyear.com/images/PDF/...03.01.2014.pdf

http://www.casitaclub.com/forums/ind...ttach_id=21712
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Old 10-30-2015, 04:20 PM   #178
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My camper came with the Goodyear tires, it was a option. Some camper's still come with the Goodyear tires as a option, not Cedar Creek, not now


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Old 11-02-2015, 11:11 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Have to wonder what excuse the person giving this incorrect and un-scientific information would use for a denial for insurance coverage on any ST tire with a belt separation. After all belt separation does not involve road hazard only tire design and tire operating conditions and since they are claiming ST tires meet some special secrete performance criteria, they must have data to support and justify their position.
Maybe you should let the person that made the claims know that you will use their statements as justification for any claim for coverage of any ST tire failure that cannot be proven to involve puncture or road hazard.

Watch em tap dance around that one.

I merely referred to what my underwriter reflected upon. There is no question here about what excuses the insurance business does or does not do to avoid liabilities.
Similarly one cannot have a vehicle re-certified for carrying extra weight in a trailer by adding a heavier suspension, air bags or extra leaf springs and changing P rated tires to LT tires.

"increasing pressure in the tire apparently by all literature does not increase load carrying ability of the wheel itself.

Your wheel may have a max load capacity number stamped on it. I would contact the wheel company concerning wheel load & inflation capacity which is separate from tire load, inflation and speed capacity"


I'm pretty sure i said tire but it should have perhaps read tire and wheel assembly.

"Special Trailer (ST) Tire Speed Ratings

Industry standards dictate tires with the ST designation are speed rated to 65 MPH (104 km/h) under normal inflation and load conditions.
However Goodyear Marathon and Power King Towmax STR tires featuring the ST size designation may be used at speeds between 66 and 75 mph (106 and 121 km/h) by increasing their cold inflation pressure by 10 psi (69 kPa) above the recommended pressure for the rated maximum load.

Do not exceed the wheel's maximum rated pressure. If the maximum pressure for the wheel prohibits the increase of air pressure, then maximum speed must be restricted to 65 mph (104 km/h).

The cold inflation pressure must not exceed 10 psi (69 kPa) beyond the inflation specified for the maximum load of the tire.

Increasing the inflation pressure by 10 psi (69 kPa) does not provide any additional load carrying capacity."

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=219
one of several sites offering the same information as my agent passed along.

For me this means making the tire stiffer with air will not permit overloading of the max limit of the tire which apparenlty is limited to what the tire is mounted to for air pressure....

for instance i would think that if we had 110 psi max tires and my rims were limited to 80 - we would have to fill those tires carrying the 110 psi max to a max of 80 psi or risk the rim failing.

Would i be correct?


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Old 11-02-2015, 01:38 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by MilCop4523 View Post


For instance I would think that if we had 110 psi max tires and my rims were limited to 80 - we would have to fill those tires carrying the 110 psi max to a max of 80 psi or risk the rim failing.


Would i be correct?


If the rim manufacturer has taken the time to mark the rim with a maximum psi rating of 80 psi - they are not required by regulations to do that - I would not exceed that with a tire's cold inflation pressure.

On the other hand, if the rim is marked with a maximum load capacity and no psi rating, any psi needed to get your tires to the rim's maximum load capacity would be acceptable.
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