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Old 12-20-2015, 01:42 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Slight clarification on the ST - LT tire change topic.
As a tire engineer, I see no reason for an owner to not be allowed to change type tire i.e. P to ST or LT or change ST to LT as long as the new tire at its inflation has equal or greater load capacity to the OE tire at its inflation and the max inflation capability as identified by the wheel manufacturer is not exceeded.
If there is no reason to not be allowed to use other typed tires, why rate them at all, unless they have different characteristics built in to address different needs? If this is true, couldn't you just run ST tires on your car of truck? Just curious?
Have you ever known of a wheel [rim] failing do to over inflation? I've yet to find anyone that has FIRSTHAND knowledge of such and not "I've heard of it happening". My humble tire guy [been in the tire business over 50 years with his family] said he never heard of it happening. My wheels aren't marked with psi rating either front or backside.
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Old 12-20-2015, 03:21 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Slight clarification on the ST - LT tire change topic.
As a tire engineer, I see no reason for an owner to not be allowed to change type tire i.e. P to ST or LT or change ST to LT as long as the new tire at its inflation has equal or greater load capacity to the OE tire at its inflation and the max inflation capability as identified by the wheel manufacturer is not exceeded.
I also share that opinion. But, it’s an opinion not supported by tire industry standards. The vehicle certification process is binding for the vehicle builders.

Lets get hypothetical along that line. The trailer builder certifies that ST225/75R15D tires are appropriate as original equipment. Putting that information on the certification label sets a minimum standard for that trailer. Because the ST tire is a completely different design, LT or P tires used as replacements for the OE ST tires become a misapplication. To compound that problem is wording in the owners manual saying replacement tires should be the same type and size as the OE tires. (Anything to do with vehicle safety found in the owner’s manual is mandated to be there by the DOT).Tire industry standards written by every major tire manufacturer agree that replacement tires must have an equal or greater load capacity when compared to the OE tires. And compound the problem by saying to use tires like the ones on the certification label/tire placard. Another compounding problem is the size tire I used to start this off has no equal in load capacity with other designed tires. Another compounding factor is the vehicle owner’s manual. Its not going to recommend anything other than the OE sized tires as replacements, or vehicle manufacturer recommendations for optional sizes listed in the owner’s manual. The tire retailer’s hands are tied as there is no document to go to for suitable replacements.

We can talk around it all day, but, the bottom line is still going to be decided without official approval, unless the vehicle manufacturer gives their approval. It’s not the automotive industry folks, it’s the RV trailer industry without the foresight to develop a system for replacement tires comparable to - the one we are familiar with - the automotive industry.

How many trailer owners are out there riding around on unauthorized replacement tires that are also on the wrong rims with inadequate valve stems????

I cant leave this without saying something about tire warranties. They all view misapplication of their tires seriously and have made provisions in their warranty documents disallowing them. If they are that serious about it maybe we should take the time to read the warranty on all of our replacement tires. This is a common term used in most LT tire warranty documents as unacceptable for replacement tires: Improper application of tire size and/or specification.
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Old 12-20-2015, 04:23 PM   #193
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I think the main thing is the ST tires will work but they are built in China which has a bad track record. The ST tires are a lot cheaper and manufacturers look at the bottom line.


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Old 12-20-2015, 04:58 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhat6mike View Post
If there is no reason to not be allowed to use other typed tires, why rate them at all, unless they have different characteristics built in to address different needs? If this is true, couldn't you just run ST tires on your car of truck? Just curious?
Have you ever known of a wheel [rim] failing do to over inflation? I've yet to find anyone that has FIRSTHAND knowledge of such and not "I've heard of it happening". My humble tire guy [been in the tire business over 50 years with his family] said he never heard of it happening. My wheels aren't marked with psi rating either front or backside.
Well Mike check the Box that you Now Know someone 1st hand that had a Rim Failure! I wanted to put WIDE BF Goodrich TA Radial Snow Tires! In order to install on my Suburban they needed to be mounted on Offset Special Rims! Had special rims made through a Race Car Rim Mfg. they were Steel Rims,man did they look good mounted up and on the Truck! Off we go (8) guys inside and pulling a Double Deck Snowmobile trailer with (9) sleds! Snow and Ice covered roads northbound on I-75 for (580 miles)! 100 miles into the trip the Left rear Rim splits where the tire bead meets the rim,the tire Leaves the Rim,we are on what is left of the Rim! The Tire was not damaged at all? The Reese W/D helped save the Night! We pulled over and put on the Little spare! Then I went and bought (2 New Rims and Tires) to finish the Trip! Rim Mfg said I was Overloaded! Youroo!!
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Old 12-20-2015, 05:23 PM   #195
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I was going to buy a Cedar Creek 36CKTS, I have a 32RL now and I have Goodyear G614 on the camper now. What I was going to do was trade out the tires when I brought the bigger camper but I know I can't do that now. My tires are rated at 110lbs of pressure, is 3750lbs. That is 15,000lbs and that is great for my camper, GVWR, I think. My camper total weight of everything is 15,000lbs which will never happen. That's with all tanks full. The new camper is total weight 16,000lbs, so I will have to put Goodyear H rated tires on new camper and 17.5 tires. I think the new Cedar Creeks come with 17.5 ST tires made in China. I plan to stick with Goodyear tires that's made in America


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The 36ckts came with 16" Goodyear G614 tires as standard equipment until the 2016 models came out which is when they changed to the Chinese made Westlake tire, same size, same load range. There is no reason not to use the Goodyears on your your new trailer. It will have at least 20% of the total Gross weight carried by the pin just like other trailers. In the case of the 36CKTS that would be about 3200# Leaving 12,800 to be carried by the tires. All manufacturers do the same thing...
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:05 PM   #196
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The 36ckts came with 16" Goodyear G614 tires as standard equipment until the 2016 models came out which is when they changed to the Chinese made Westlake tire, same size, same load range. There is no reason not to use the Goodyears on your your new trailer. It will have at least 20% of the total Gross weight carried by the pin just like other trailers. In the case of the 36CKTS that would be about 3200# Leaving 12,800 to be carried by the tires. All manufacturers do the same thing...

The Cedar Creek 36CKTS now come with 17.5 tires, my Goodyear G614 are 16 tires.


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Old 12-20-2015, 08:15 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by GOTTOYS View Post
The 36ckts came with 16" Goodyear G614 tires as standard equipment until the 2016 models came out which is when they changed to the Chinese made Westlake tire, same size, same load range. There is no reason not to use the Goodyears on your your new trailer. It will have at least 20% of the total Gross weight carried by the pin just like other trailers. In the case of the 36CKTS that would be about 3200# Leaving 12,800 to be carried by the tires. All manufacturers do the same thing...
What manufacturers are you speaking for? All RV trailer manufacturers must fit tires to a specific figure. It’s called the GAWR and each axle has one. The amount of load for each one of them is found on the certification label.

Attached is a spec sheet for Westlake provided tires. I don't see one like the G614. They do have the new ST235/85R16G rated at 4080# at 110 psi.

http://lionshead.digitalhill.com/med...lake-Specs.pdf

Hmm, green valve caps. Lionshead must be using 100% nitrogen. And, red and yellow dots for optimum tire weight distribution to the rim.
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Old 12-20-2015, 11:08 PM   #198
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I would have to move up to the H 17.5 Goodyear on the Cedar Creek. I'll not put China tires on another camper


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Old 12-22-2015, 01:00 PM   #199
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Will try and answer question posed in Posts 191 - 193

The different types of tires do have different requirements and as such that is why you end up with different load & inflation characteristics for tires with the same physical dimensions.
The key part of my post #190 pointed out "as long as the new tire at its inflation has equal or greater load capacity to the OE tire at its inflation and the max inflation capability as identified by the wheel manufacturer is not exceeded"

RE Rim failure due to over-inflation. While I was not present in the test chamber at the moment of failure, I have seen a few rims that did fail due to running higher pressure. Wonder if Youroo can tell us what state the Rim Mfg was from so we can all avoid any rimes made in that state.

RE Federal regulations
These apply to the manufacturer and in the US not to the owner. The issue of the standard is primarily based on the load capability of the tires being equal or greater than the GAWR. This is seen in the TT where a 7,000# axle is rated with GAWR of 6,500# because that is all the tires the RV MFG has selected will support. The reason for the wording in the owners manual is because telling owners to use the same as original is easier than offering instructions that need to be followed to learn what alternatives may also be acceptable. Just because you found no tire with identical load capability does not mean there are not tires with greater capacity. While some may also require a wheel change, I can easily identify dozens of tire options.

RE China made
I have written extensively on this in my blog on RV Tire Safety. We need to remember it is the consumer that is pushing the purchase decision on the RV MFG to get the lowest cost and to meet that goal the RV MFG buys the lowest cost option available to them.
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:13 PM   #200
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I’m going to present this from what I consider a typical manufacturer does when building a model trailer to a specific marketing tool. In this case the market target is for one half ton trucks.

The plans are drawn-up for 17 travel trailers and 6 fifth wheel trailers with the same brand name, all targeted for the ˝ ton truck. The travel trailers start with a GVWR of 6400# and work their way up to 9000#. Every one of them are fitted with ST225/75R15D tires. The fifth wheels start with a GVWR of 9662# and work up to 10370# all with ST225/75R15D tires.

That production line can order all wheel/tire assemblies the same size for every unit. Setting GVWR, GAWR and selecting appropriate tire and rim sizes with recommended inflation pressures suitable for each fitment is part of vehicle certification. The minimum values and measurements are a product of NHTSA standards and regulations.

Consumers unhappy with minimum product values and specifications often point their finger in the wrong direction. When the value and measurements of things certified to be appropriate produce unacceptable results the standards which produced the results must first be scrutinized.
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