Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-19-2015, 09:56 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by gljurczyk View Post
When I shoot the tire I also shoot the hub. The hub will show if a brake is dragging it has to be hotter then the others. I thought people would grasp what I was doing. Saying tire to me is the tire assy. which to me includes the hub as well.
I read into your statement and, even if that wasn't what you actually did, is what I planned to do. I don't expect the dragging brake to raise the tire temp but any difference in hub temp between different wheels is suspect.

Thanks for your input.
__________________

__________________
- 1969 Coleman Williamsburg (with original canvas!)
- 2000 Coleman Mesa
- 2014 Shamrock 21DK
- 1999 Chevrolet Astro
- 2005 Dodge Durango Limited 4x2 5L V8 Hemi

- 2016 Ford F-150 SCrew Lariat 4x2 3.5L V6 Ecoboost
chriscowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 10:56 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Airdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 734
Anything that is in direct contact with the rim/wheel will transmit heat to the tire. Hot brakes are the most common and most dangerous. Heat dissipation from the brakes into the tires may take 20 minutes or longer to stabilize. Tire temp needs to be checked manually twice (with a heat detecting device). Once upon stopping and again before leaving. Always approach from fore or aft. Just because they are not smoking doesn’t mean they are not hot. If you have a TPMS with heat detection, twice is good for it also.

Airdale
__________________

__________________
Airdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 11:19 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airdale View Post
... Tire temp needs to be checked manually twice (with a heat detecting device). Once upon stopping and again before leaving. Always approach from fore or aft. ...
Can you elaborate on the comment about fore or aft? Does that mean I should measure the temp of the tread, rather than the sidewall? Or are you referring to measuring the wheel temp from behind the tire, rather than pointing the thermometer at the hub? I'm unclear as to what you're advising.



Sent from my phone using Tapatalk.
__________________
- 1969 Coleman Williamsburg (with original canvas!)
- 2000 Coleman Mesa
- 2014 Shamrock 21DK
- 1999 Chevrolet Astro
- 2005 Dodge Durango Limited 4x2 5L V8 Hemi

- 2016 Ford F-150 SCrew Lariat 4x2 3.5L V6 Ecoboost
chriscowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 11:24 PM   #14
Commercial Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,145
Please don't forget that the hottest part of the tire is internal to the structure at the edges of the belts.
Rubber is a good insulator so heat does not travel much, so the sidewall us usually the coolest part of the tire.

If you insist on using an IR gun it is imperative that you shoot into the shoulder slot (the one that is the same size on each tire, not just any slot as there are usually 4 to 6 different size slots on each tire.). You also need to get the temps at the same time from stop and in the same order. You will see a temp drop if you have a long slow down and maneuvering to get to parking space.

When doing tire tests with needle probes we had to get 3 readings on each of 4 tires from car stop in less than 1 minute or the readings were considered suspect.
__________________
.
I write a blog on RV tire application and safety and give seminars on tires at RV events across the US. 40 years experience as tire design & quality engineer for major tire mfg. Freelander 23QB on Chevy chassis is my RV
RV Tire Safety Blog
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 11:34 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsdata View Post
Way before electronics told me any temperatures, when towing, I would stop, get out, feel the tires and the hubs. Any tire or hub that was hotter than any other would make me pause to think about a cause. ... Feeling for the HIGHER temp on any one wheel will give you a clue that something might be wrong. ... Never should anything be so hot as to be terribly uncomfortable to the touch.
Most people have neither a TPMS nor an IR thermometer. The practice you describe is simple, prudent, and probably very effective. Other readers would be well-advised to adopt this, or a similar, practice.

Quote:
Always do this within the first 40 miles, and certainly within the first 20 miles of any interstate driving.
I will admit to not having done that. I will.

Quote:
... The way I go now is to use the electronic point and shoot temp sensor. I also try to shoot the brake drum behind the tires. ...
Now that I have an IR thermometer, I'll do the same. That's why I'm asking.

Thanks for the insight.

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk.
__________________
- 1969 Coleman Williamsburg (with original canvas!)
- 2000 Coleman Mesa
- 2014 Shamrock 21DK
- 1999 Chevrolet Astro
- 2005 Dodge Durango Limited 4x2 5L V8 Hemi

- 2016 Ford F-150 SCrew Lariat 4x2 3.5L V6 Ecoboost
chriscowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2015, 11:50 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Please don't forget that the hottest part of the tire is internal to the structure at the edges of the belts.
Rubber is a good insulator so heat does not travel much, so the sidewall us usually the coolest part of the tire.
I can't forget what I never knew in the first place. While I grasp that rubber is a good insulator I didn't know I was supposed to measure the temperature of a different part of the tire.

Quote:
If you insist on using an IR gun ...
That's all I've got and is a dramatic improvement over my past practice which was little more than occasionally feeling the tires with my hand.

Quote:
it is imperative that you shoot into the shoulder slot ...
By that do you mean the outer slot?

Quote:
You also need to get the temps at the same time from stop and in the same order.
To be honest I'm unlikely to be that exacting in my efforts. I will measure the temp of the same locations on each wheel and the appropriate locations on the tire as advised here by you and others, but I doubt I'll be consistent as to exact timing or sequence. I'm not trying to measure temps for a scientific experiment; I'm trying to prevent disaster. Anything I do with a thermometer is better than what I've done in the past and more than what the vast majority of drivers will ever do.

I do appreciate your expertise.

Thanks

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk.
__________________
- 1969 Coleman Williamsburg (with original canvas!)
- 2000 Coleman Mesa
- 2014 Shamrock 21DK
- 1999 Chevrolet Astro
- 2005 Dodge Durango Limited 4x2 5L V8 Hemi

- 2016 Ford F-150 SCrew Lariat 4x2 3.5L V6 Ecoboost
chriscowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2015, 08:33 AM   #17
Commercial Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,145
Here is a graphic of tire temperature. Red hot blue cool.


This picture shows temperature variation in tread area

Here yellow is hottest. This sequence was done as an inflation test on a passenger tire but the results are similar for all tires. Lower inflation is hotter tire.
The other thing this picture shows (steps 3 & 4) is the large variation between relatively close parts of the tire.

Unlike metak wheels & hubs if you have brake drag the entire metal object will get hot. A tire on the other hand does not transfer heat from hottest location to cooler very well so if you are interested in knowing how hot your tire is and intend on using an IR gun then shooting the same spot becomes very important otherwise you could get a reading of 105 one time and 130 the next which would not be useful information for making a decision when the tire that read 105 could be closer to critical temperature.

My whole point is that IR guns are an unreliable tool to use on non-heat conductive materials such as rubber.

I suggest that investing a couple hundred in a TPMS for the TT could easily pay for itself if you get warning of air loss.

Just because you check the tire in the AM before leaving the campground is no guarantee of not having air loss 50 miles down the road and ending up with a tire like this.

along with $$ TT damage that can easily exceed the cost of a TPM system.
__________________
.
I write a blog on RV tire application and safety and give seminars on tires at RV events across the US. 40 years experience as tire design & quality engineer for major tire mfg. Freelander 23QB on Chevy chassis is my RV
RV Tire Safety Blog
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2015, 09:15 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
kerrlakelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 480
Seeing that my 3rd cousin is Forrest Gump, "I'm not a verah smort mayan." But, aren't we way over thinking this? I totally get all the technical conversation and agree that it would be best to pick up a TPM system. However, if you are using an IR gun, as I do, all I'm looking for is a tire, hub, or brake drum that has a temp that is out of line with the other 3 tires, hubs, or drums. And, I really don't care how hot they are if they are all close in temperature. It will be a very rare instance that all 4 tires, hubs, or drums will be running dangerously hot. (Example is when I had a sticking brake, that drum was way hotter than the other 3 drums.) So, bottom line, with my IR gun, I'm just looking for anything that is out of line with the others. Am I over simplifying this?
__________________
North Carolina born and bred
2010 Sandpiper 345RET
2011 2500 Duramax Silverado
2001 Centurion Elite Bowrider direct drive
"Old water skier"
Jesus Christ my Saviour
kerrlakelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2015, 09:41 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
f5moab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Here is a graphic of tire temperature. Red hot blue cool.


This picture shows temperature variation in tread area

Here yellow is hottest. This sequence was done as an inflation test on a passenger tire but the results are similar for all tires. Lower inflation is hotter tire.
The other thing this picture shows (steps 3 & 4) is the large variation between relatively close parts of the tire.

Unlike metak wheels & hubs if you have brake drag the entire metal object will get hot. A tire on the other hand does not transfer heat from hottest location to cooler very well so if you are interested in knowing how hot your tire is and intend on using an IR gun then shooting the same spot becomes very important otherwise you could get a reading of 105 one time and 130 the next which would not be useful information for making a decision when the tire that read 105 could be closer to critical temperature.

My whole point is that IR guns are an unreliable tool to use on non-heat conductive materials such as rubber.

I suggest that investing a couple hundred in a TPMS for the TT could easily pay for itself if you get warning of air loss.

Just because you check the tire in the AM before leaving the campground is no guarantee of not having air loss 50 miles down the road and ending up with a tire like this.

along with $$ TT damage that can easily exceed the cost of a TPM system.
I knew what you meant, but those photos show it all. Amazing the difference between air pressures. I was always told to shoot the tread and not the sidewalls, and now I see it should be the outer tread.

But I have always traveled with TPMS in the trailer tires.
__________________
Trailer: Lifted 228BH, heavy duty springs and Yokohama tires DELAMINATED ROOF
TV: 2016 GMC Sierra Z71 4x4 CC, SLT
Spare TV: Two Alaskan Malamutes

Living somewhere in ID; previously lived in Moab UT; previous to that, don't ask!
f5moab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2015, 10:01 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Jim34RL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oswego il
Posts: 1,195
I am old school and a retired engineer who has been pulling trails since the 70's when our first trailer was a COX popup.


We would not even be having this discussion if was not for the Ford/Firestone tire fiscal of the late 90's.


I know new things come along but how did we manage without them in the past? I for one do not use nor do I like TPMS it is an electronic device that can easy provide false positives and the end user becomes complacent do to this technology.


I did have a tire failure when pulling a 5er once. We had just left the campground and the tires and lug nut torques where checked before we left. We had just entered the interstate and the tire exploded tire had less than 500 miles on it. TPMS would not have caught this tire failure it was sudden and total. Since than in the last four years I have not had any issues at all with the trailer tires they were Michelins XPS Ribs LT tires on that trailer.


I also use an IR heat gun but I check abnormalities between tires and hubs and brakes. Looking for an out of normal range between them if one tire on the same side is between say 10 and 15 deg's warm than the other I have an issues within +/- 5 than I do not.




__________________

__________________
Jim W.
2016 34RL CC; 2008 Ram Mega Cab 2500HD, 6.7L, 68RFE 6 speed, 4X4, Smarty S67, TDR 112K+miles
Jim34RL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tire

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




ForestRiverForums.com is not in any way associated with Forest River, Inc. or its associated RV manufacturing divisions.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 AM.