Torsion Axle Adjustment - Also, Lifting Trailer

[jimmoore13]

I've searched the archives, and I didn't see an answer to my first question.

Question 1:
I climbed under the trailer to grease the cable mechanism, and I noticed the front, adjustable mount for my torsion axle seems to have slipped about 1/4" to 3/8". One side is "sagged" slightly more than the other. See photos.
This causes the trailer to sit a bit lower - a problem because I always boondock, and every bit of ground clearance matters. I've dragged my steps over the "whoops" many times...more so this year than in the past three years...so often that I carry a 6# sledge to straighten them. They've taken a real beating, but I'm more concerned about the black tank dump plumbing at the back corner of the trailer.
My trailer tows level (3" drop on the hitch and airbags to take the sag out of the truck suspension).

The question is, is it OK to loosen the locking bolt in the slotted mount and jack the front of the axle mount up against the frame? That would give me back about 1/2" or so of ground clearance. Or could this position be associated with some sort of alignment?

Question 2:
I know Forest River offers "off road" "lift" packages on new trailers. Is there a "kit" I can buy to raise the trailer on the suspension a bit...say 2" to 4"?
I've seen several options, but most require bolting to the frame. Note the box-section spacer above my axle mount. There is no reasonable way to get a nut and washer in there and then hold the roll.
I could also drop the axle, sandwich in a filler with square stock, and drill holes in the end-mounting plate a couple inches higher than the factory holes, but I'm not sure if dropping the axle so far down the mounting plate would weaken the connection.
This kit from eTrailer is for a double axle, but it looks promising. I might be able to make a single-axle version of it work.
I've seen some forum posts on DIY "lifts", but I'd be happier to go with an "engineered" lift kit...ideally bolt on.
I'd appreciate your thoughts...especially about durability of these mods in primarily off-road applications.

Thanks,

[Bama Rambler]

Question #1; Yes it's ok to jack against the bracket and loosen the bolt so that it raises the bracket back against the support. It also looks like there's a hole in the top of that bracket. If so, then I'd drill and tap into the spacer at least on that end and bolt to it for added insurance.

[PhoneDude 8289]

Originally Posted by jimmoore13

I've searched the archives, and I didn't see an answer to my first question.

Question 1:
I climbed under the trailer to grease the cable mechanism, and I noticed the front, adjustable mount for my torsion axle seems to have slipped about 1/4" to 3/8". One side is "sagged" slightly more than the other. See photos.
This causes the trailer to sit a bit lower - a problem because I always boondock, and every bit of ground clearance matters. I've dragged my steps over the "whoops" many times...more so this year than in the past three years...so often that I carry a 6# sledge to straighten them. They've taken a real beating, but I'm more concerned about the black tank dump plumbing at the back corner of the trailer.
My trailer tows level (3" drop on the hitch and airbags to take the sag out of the truck suspension).

The question is, is it OK to loosen the locking bolt in the slotted mount and jack the front of the axle mount up against the frame? That would give me back about 1/2" or so of ground clearance. Or could this position be associated with some sort of alignment?

Question 2:
I know Forest River offers "off road" "lift" packages on new trailers. Is there a "kit" I can buy to raise the trailer on the suspension a bit...say 2" to 4"?
I've seen several options, but most require bolting to the frame. Note the box-section spacer above my axle mount. There is no reasonable way to get a nut and washer in there and then hold the roll.
I could also drop the axle, sandwich in a filler with square stock, and drill holes in the end-mounting plate a couple inches higher than the factory holes, but I'm not sure if dropping the axle so far down the mounting plate would weaken the connection.
This kit from eTrailer is for a double axle, but it looks promising. I might be able to make a single-axle version of it work.
I've seen some forum posts on DIY "lifts", but I'd be happier to go with an "engineered" lift kit...ideally bolt on.
I'd appreciate your thoughts...especially about durability of these mods in primarily off-road applications.

Thanks,

Why is the bracket slotted?

[jimmoore13]

Originally Posted by PhoneDude 8289

Why is the bracket slotted?

No idea other than to accommodate ease of installation. Perhaps it enables lowering the ride height or fine tuning alignment.

Either way, I need all the ground clearance I can get, especially because the steps are so far from the axle. Many trailer designs place the steps/door very close to the axle, and this ensures the maximum possible clearance over undulating terrain.

[TitanMike]

Those slots could well be there to adjust ride height just like the screws on the end of torsion bars on old chrysler products.

Before doing anything with those adjustments I'd first make sure the load in the trailer is evenly distributed, as much as possible, then find a nice flat/level surface. Park on this surface and then measure from ground to frame, comparing readings from side to side at each axle. Front to rear level is a function of the WD hitch.

I'm going to guess that this was done at the factory to make sure the trailer didn't ride "Lopsided" when it left.

In an ideal world the adjustments would be made with a scale under each wheel so each tire would be carrying the same load. Whether or not the trailer would look level might be questionable.

[jimmoore13]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Those slots could well be there to adjust ride height just like the screws on the end of torsion bars on old chrysler products.<<SNIP>>
I'm going to guess that this was done at the factory to make sure the trailer didn't ride "Lopsided" when it left.<<SNIP>>

You may be right, but I suspect "slippage", because the trailer is dragging the stairs more and more often. In fact, maneuvering in my driveway, there's a point where the steps are prone to drag, and I must adjust my line to prevent this. Stair dragging in this situation is harder to avoid, so I think the trailer has settled a bit.

No WD hitch on this rig...it's light (<4000# ready to roll). I use air bags on my TV, and I pressurize them to the same amount for each trip (30# +/-) so the trailer is level.

I can't guarantee my observations, but I've been under the trailer a number of times....most notably to repair a puncture in my fresh tank fill pipe from a screw driven through the floor into the pipe. A fairly big job requiring that I be under the trailer for a while. This pipe is right in front of the axle. At that time, I didn't notice these gaps.

Also, since I mostly boondock far in on gravel roads, the rig has seen a LOT of washboard. The vibration is crazy, and I've spent a LOT of time replacing, tightening, gluing, and so on...all the fasteners in the trailer. I suspect the vibration could easily have move the axle slightly.

I do plan to install a lift kit. When I do, that will resolve the problem once and for all. I'll have to change the hitch from its current 3" drop to 1" or straight depending on the kit.

[PhoneDude 8289]

Had the wheels off of the RV a few days ago and again the gap was there on the axle mount between it and and frame. A 1/2" gap on the front axle and 1/4" or so on the rear axle. Last year I installed new 5/8" gr8 fine thread bolts nuts & washers torquing them to 135#'. I inspected the welds on the axles where the mount are welded to the axles and found two areas where the welds were cracked, nothing bent or out of shape just cracked. Not sure how long it was like this, didn't take that good a look at the welds last year when I repacked the bearings. I located a certified welder and had him repair the cracked welds and inspect all other welds on the axles. While he was there I had him weld the bracket to the frame, there will be no more slipping and separating in that area. The welder charged me $150.00, well worth it for the piece of mind.

[bigmurph]

I don't think you should have welded on the axle. There is rubber inside the tube. That heat wouldn't be good for it.

[PhoneDude 8289]

Originally Posted by bigmurph

I don't think you should have welded on the axle. There is rubber inside the tube. That heat wouldn't be good for it.

With the weld cracked where the axle tube is welded to the mounting bracket I don't think there would be another way to repair it. Took it for a 50 mile test run when finished and the wheels put back on, all is well.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by PhoneDude 8289

With the weld cracked where the axle tube is welded to the mounting bracket I don't think there would be another way to repair it. Took it for a 50 mile test run when finished and the wheels put back on, all is well.

One method that comes to mind would be to disassemble the axle tube, remove rubber and internal parts THEN weld. (the welding was done before the axle was assembled in the beginning).

Hopefully you lucked out and the rubber inserts weren't damaged badly enough to cause you bigger grief down the road.

[jimmoore13]

Originally Posted by PhoneDude 8289

<<SNIP>>I inspected the welds on the axles where the mount are welded to the axles and found two areas where the welds were cracked, nothing bent or out of shape just cracked. <<SNIP>>

HOLY CRAP!!
I didn't check the welds, but I sure as hell will now!!
Since I'm planning to drop the axle, insert a lift spacer, then replace, checking the welds will be all the more important. Given this, if I find fractured welds, I'll call in someone with a portable welder to do the job in my driveway while the axle is removed. I saw a guy with a first class rig at a nearby gas station and had a chat with him. My dad was a welder, so we shared war stories. I took a photo of the sign on his truck so I'd know how to find him.

[PhoneDude 8289]

Originally Posted by jimmoore13

HOLY CRAP!!
I didn't check the welds, but I sure as hell will now!!
Since I'm planning to drop the axle, insert a lift spacer, then replace, checking the welds will be all the more important. Given this, if I find fractured welds, I'll call in someone with a portable welder to do the job in my driveway while the axle is removed. I saw a guy with a first class rig at a nearby gas station and had a chat with him. My dad was a welder, so we shared war stories. I took a photo of the sign on his truck so I'd know how to find him.

If you have torsion axles I would recommend wrapping the axle tube with an ice packs within 10" or so before, after and under the area to be welded. I don't think it would be necessary on sprung axles.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by PhoneDude 8289

If you have torsion axles I would recommend wrapping the axle tube with an ice packs within 10" or so before, after and under the area to be welded. I don't think it would be necessary on sprung axles.

I think I'd be making a call to the axle manufacturer first. If welds are cracking in this area I'd wager that it's not just one or two and the mfr (Dexter?) may have a fix (or a new axle).

If you look at how this axle is put together, there is a lot of rubber inside and just wrapping the axle with ice packs would be wasted effort. If the welder isn't getting the inside of the axle tube hot enough to melt rubber he's not getting full penetration with his weld.

The question is "What hidden damage have you done that will end up a bigger problem later".

[PhoneDude 8289]

Pulled a little more than 200 miles today, so far so good. If anything does develop I'll report back. Made two stops to re-torque lug nuts & ck bearing & tire temps. Pressures all within 6 psi and temps within 10º.

[jimmoore13]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

I think I'd be making a call to the axle manufacturer first. If welds are cracking in this area I'd wager that it's not just one or two and the mfr (Dexter?) may have a fix (or a new axle). <<SNIP>>

I'm curious. Were the fractured welds on the trailer frame or on the axle?

If the frame or frame mounts are cracking, and given the way these axles tend to mount...at least mine...another tactic might be to fish-plate the mounts to the frame. This involves re-welding the original joints and then adding a "scab" plate over the frame and the mounting plate. This reinforces both the joint and the stiffness of the mounting plate.

To respect weight concerns, the fish-plate can be fairly thin - 1/8" plate should be enough - because most of the forces are vertical (not lateral).

If the axle welds are failing, that's probably a warranty issue. This is the kind of thing that might justify a recall investigation because it's a serious safety issue.

Fish-plate:

[PhoneDude 8289]

[QUOTE=jimmoore13;1728242]I'm curious. Were the fractured welds on the trailer frame or on the axle?

If the frame or frame mounts are cracking, and given the way these axles tend to mount...at least mine...another tactic might be to fish-plate the mounts to the frame. This involves re-welding the original joints and then adding a "scab" plate over the frame and the mounting plate. This reinforces both the joint and the stiffness of the mounting plate.

To respect weight concerns, the fish-plate can be fairly thin - 1/8" plate should be enough - because most of the forces are vertical (not lateral).

If the axle welds are failing, that's probably a warranty issue. This is the kind of thing that might justify a recall investigation because it's a serious safety issue.

Fish-plate:[/QUOTE
Cracks were at the bracket that was welded to the axle. Looked like the weld did not penetrate the bracket top part of the weld at the bracket. The welder caped the old weld at that point. Warranty issue I don't think so. The unit is coming up on 5 yrs old. We are at So. Padre Island for a week. About 500 miles or so in the last two days. Everything under the RV still looks good like it did before we left home but I will be keeping a close eye on it.

[rsdata]

Question 2:
I know Forest River offers "off road" "lift" packages on new trailers. Is there a "kit" I can buy to raise the trailer on the suspension a bit...say 2" to 4"?

cracked welds aside...

I don't suppose there is enough room between the two axles to just move up a tire size or two to increase the height of the trailer?... that would be too easy...

if dragging stairs are the only problem, why not remove the stairs entirely and fashion something to replace them that does not include them being fastened to the trailer underneath

[jimmoore13]

[QUOTE=PhoneDude 8289;
Cracks were at the bracket that was welded to the axle. Looked like the weld did not penetrate the bracket top part of the weld at the bracket. The welder caped the old weld at that point. Warranty issue I don't think so. The unit is coming up on 5 yrs old. We are at So. Padre Island for a week. About 500 miles or so in the last two days. Everything under the RV still looks good like it did before we left home but I will be keeping a close eye on it.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the response. I'll be inspecting my axles very carefully before I raise the trailer.

It might be worth contacting Dexter (I presume they are the manufacturer). They might be amenable to a "goodwill adjustment" for the failure.
Why? This is the kind of safety issue that might warrant a recall if it's prevalent. This kind of failure transcends normal warranty limits, and NHTSA would take a dim view of road vehicle axles falling apart.

I'm not suggesting getting nasty...or a lawyer. But give them a chance to make it right. On the one hand, they might pay the welder's fee and note the possibility of future problems with the rubber in the torsion tube due to heat. Clearly, welding was the answer. So they shouldn't blame you. As a long shot, they might replace the axle.

It might be worth a phone call. Based on many complaint resolutions reported in Trailer Life, there are quite a few cases that get settled in favor of the owner as a gesture of good will.

[jimmoore13]

Originally Posted by rsdata

cracked welds aside...

I don't suppose there is enough room between the two axles to just move up a tire size or two to increase the height of the trailer?... that would be too easy...

if dragging stairs are the only problem, why not remove the stairs entirely and fashion something to replace them that does not include them being fastened to the trailer underneath

We're single axle, so tire/wheel size might be an option, but since new, there's not a lot of clearance between the 14" tires and the wheel wells. I suspect this is an accommodation for a HighWall (HW). I'm 6'6" and the joint between the tub and the roof is already at eye level for me. My wife, who is much shorter, can barely reach the roof latches, and she can do precious little when setting up. As it is, she can just about walk under the beds without ducking. I'm tall, so raising the rig won't be a problem, but I already carry a 3-step ladder to deal with things like the awning, weather flaps on the lift posts, and so on.

To use a larger wheel/tire, I'd need more clearance. But once I have more clearance - typically the kits lift the Dexter axle about 3" - I won't need the extra height from a 15" wheel/tire combo.

As for the stairs, if I remove them, you're right. One problem solved. But the black tank dump is right in front of the rear bumper...far enough from the axle to make it very vulnerable to the kinds of pitching up and down going through the badly undulating roads where I boondock most often. I definitely can recapture the lost clearance (perhaps 1") by returning the axle to its original position, but I'm eager to get more clearance ...more like the purpose built "off-road" PUPS. Then we get to keep our stairs and not have to tote a substitute separately. And we can tackle some boondocking sites we won't currently try because of rocks, ruts, and other clearance challenges our PUP can't handle.

Plus I'm stubborn.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by jimmoore13

I won't need the extra height from a 15" wheel/tire combo.

Just remember, for every inch you increase the wheel size, you only gain 1/2" in additional height. You might gain some more from the tire as the sidewall height is a function of section width. With a larger wheel you can often get a wider tire and then you gain the 70, 75, 85% of that width in height (due to the aspect ratio used for sizing tires).

Lift kits will raise unit inch for inch. Increasing wheel size only gains you a little more than 1/2" for each inch increase.