Torsion axles causing blowouts?

bakken · 07-09-2013, 11:11 AM

While checking my axle bearings after our trip to Wyoming, I noticed that when I jacked up the driver's side of the camper, the rear tire came off the ground long before the front. There ended up to be about an inch difference.

Now I wonder, does this mean that the front tire is taking more of the load than the back? Once loaded, these rubber torsion axles don't move a heck of a lot, and an inch is a big difference.

I suppose the only way to check for sure is to go to a scale, and weigh each tire individually.
But if the "weak" axle is transferring weight to the other, that could mean that tire is over-loaded which might result in a failure at some point.

That is one thing that always bothered me about rubber torsion axles, the inability to share the load like a regular spring suspension does.

TURBS · 07-09-2013, 11:15 AM

Bakken I think the issue of one raising before the other attributes to more weight for of axles then aft. Imo respectively.
Thoughts.

Turbs

bakken · 07-09-2013, 11:40 AM

turbo, I jacked the camper up on the axle subframe, which lits both axles at the same time. What I noticed is that the rear tire sits higher when right off the ground, completely unloaded.
What I am wondering about is if this equates to a difference in what load that tire carries when back down on the ground.
JFYI, the passenger side is not like this, with both tires coming off the ground at the same time. And I don't remember this issue before, so I am wondering if that one axle end is failing?

You know, if I didn't do any maintenance, I would never notice these things!
Doh!

TURBS · 07-09-2013, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakken

turbo, I jacked the camper up on the axle subframe, which lits both axles at the same time. What I noticed is that the rear tire sits higher when right off the ground, completely unloaded.
What I am wondering about is if this equates to a difference in what load that tire carries when back down on the ground.
JFYI, the passenger side is not like this, with both tires coming off the ground at the same time. And I don't remember this issue before, so I am wondering if that one axle end is failing?

You know, if I didn't do any maintenance, I would never notice these things!
Doh!

Can u see the torsion rubbers?
I'm wondering if one is noticeably mushe'd or fallng out.

Dave_Monica · 07-09-2013, 12:31 PM

You don't have this happening on one of the axles do you?

Dave

TURBS · 07-09-2013, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_Monica

You don't have this happening on one of the axles do you?

Dave

Interesting.

Dave_Monica · 07-09-2013, 12:42 PM

Member Daisy Boykin brought this up a couple of years ago. Here's the link... http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...les-11992.html

Alko or FR never answered why there's a slotted hole/mounting which would allow the axles to rotate. I fixed my front axle...the rear was OK.

Dave

MtnGuy · 07-09-2013, 12:58 PM

When Sidney (Daisy Boykin) posted that, I put an extra bolt in my axles, and made sure they were plenty tight. My axles are Lipperts with a bit of a different mounting bracket which allowed me to install the backup bolt.

bakken · 07-09-2013, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_Monica

You don't have this happening on one of the axles do you?

Dave

That was fixed as soon as we got the camper home, bolted it up vertically through the camper frame. They ain't goin nowhere after that!
But I will have to check the rubbers as turbo suggested.

acadianbob · 07-09-2013, 05:18 PM

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Now I gotta crawl under mine and check it out.

bakken · 07-09-2013, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acadianbob

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Now I gotta crawl under mine and check it out.

Don't let my paranoia get to you, I am just gunshy after what I found during my after-purchase inspection. Now I check everything on a regular basis, and probably worry too much!

gooiebob · 07-10-2013, 09:16 PM

Was under my 2013 2703ws tonight and noticed the passenger side slotted bolt was in the near the top. The driver side was in the middle. Is it some kind of pre load for weight distribution? Noticed in an earlier thread FR never responded why there is a slotted hole. Might have to give them a call.
Bob

OldCoot · 07-10-2013, 09:25 PM

Both sides should be at the top against the mounting tube. I had the dealer bolt the front and back of all 4 with gr 8 1/2" bolts before we took the 5er off the lot. I had to do it on my Flagstaff 831RLSS and it took me 4 hrs and a lot of sweat and a few choice words. It takes a little work to get the inner bolts inside the tube, but with a pc of safety wire fed thru the hole and wrapped around the threads, you can pull the bolts down thru the hole.

lbrjet · 07-11-2013, 08:24 AM

An inch seems like a big difference. I would call that diligent, not paranoid. The tires on both sides of my trailer are very close when jacking up. Something I'm now going to keep a close eye on.

**dcheatwood** · 07-11-2013, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooiebob

Was under my 2013 2703ws tonight and noticed the passenger side slotted bolt was in the near the top. The driver side was in the middle. Is it some kind of pre load for weight distribution? Noticed in an earlier thread FR never responded why there is a slotted hole. Might have to give them a call.
Bob

Ive been thinking that way also. Your 2703 is like my 8282. And it seems this floorplan puts way more weight on thr drivers side of the unit. Closet slide, bath, kitchen appliances, tv, super slide, all on small side. The curb side is hallway and small slide with loveseat. Seems a little driver-side-heavy to me. Could the torsion bars be adjusted to compensate?

DDC · 07-11-2013, 08:50 AM

Springs have shackles to equalize them or they would be hanging at different heights too, if there is no sign of the rubber deteriorating and coming out the sides I would not be to concerned.

Dave_Monica · 07-11-2013, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcheatwood

And it seems this floorplan puts way more weight on thr drivers side of the unit. Closet slide, bath, kitchen appliances, tv, super slide, all on small side. The curb side is hallway and small slide with loveseat. Seems a little driver-side-heavy to me. Could the torsion bars be adjusted to compensate?

The torsion axles are non-adjustable...here's more info on Al-ko axles... http://www.al-ko.us/download/4000-4400IbRubber(2).pdf

It would be interesting to check the height of the camper on level ground at all 4 corners and see if there's any difference. I believe that the weight of the slides on one slide or the other is somewhat negated when the slides are fully in/travel position.

Dave

OldCoot · 07-11-2013, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcheatwood

...Could the torsion bars be adjusted to compensate?

Short answer is NO the type of torsion used on trailers does not permit adjustment. The old Chrysler products did allow for adjustment, don't know about the new ones if anyone even uses them any more.

The torsion axles on trailers have the benefit of being as close to independent suspension as possible, whereas the spring suspension does not as the wheel that encounters a bump automatically transfers some load to the other wheel via the center walking beam.

bakken · 07-11-2013, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDC

Springs have shackles to equalize them or they would be hanging at different heights too.

??????????
If you jacked up a camper with spring suspension, the axles would probably always hang at different heights, and you could move them up and down with no difficulty. So that has nothing to do with what is going on with my rubber torsion axles.
Because rubber torsion axles are mounted independently, the load they carry is never shared equally between the two axles, and is completely dependant on how much the rubber "spring" is compressed. If one "spring" is already compressed before the other even begins to carry any load, that tire will carry more weight. And that is my concern.
And as dcheatwood said, this is also the heavy side of the camper, which means it could conceivably overload that one tire and maybe cause a failure in the future.
I will have to keep an eye on it, and if the difference in height gets any worse, then I probably have an axle failing.
Just something else to watch.

DDC · 07-11-2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakken

??????????
If you jacked up a camper with spring suspension, the axles would probably always hang at different heights, and you could move them up and down with no difficulty. So that has nothing to do with what is going on with my rubber torsion axles.
Because rubber torsion axles are mounted independently, the load they carry is never shared equally between the two axles, and is completely dependant on how much the rubber "spring" is compressed. If one "spring" is already compressed before the other even begins to carry any load, that tire will carry more weight. And that is my concern.
And as dcheatwood said, this is also the heavy side of the camper, which means it could conceivably overload that one tire and maybe cause a failure in the future.
I will have to keep an eye on it, and if the difference in height gets any worse, then I probably have an axle failing.
Just something else to watch.

Try reading it again!!

Springs have shackles to equalize them or they would be hanging at different heights too, if there is no sign of the rubber deteriorating and coming out the sides I would not be to concerned.

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