TV Tires - PSI Conflicts

[Tonkatoy77]

Originally Posted by silverback 35ts

The tire pressure on the tire HAS noting to do with YOUR vehicle!
The pressure stated on the tire is the MAX pressure that the tire was manufactured for, and has nothing to do with the vehicle it is mounted on, as that tire can be mounted on any vehicle the rim fits correctly on.

The tire pressure that you are suppose to use is what the manufacture has in the door jam, and it is this tire pressure that the National Highway Safety uses for it's testing for safety. So upping the pressure will not give you any more towing capacity, it will not give it any more carrying capacity, as all these numbers have been built in at what is in your door jam and can not be changed.

And the other thing that most people seem to not know or pay attention to is what is the max pressure that the WHEEL is built for, and I will guess that the wheels on your ford will only have a max pressure of may be 40 psi, so putting 44 psi in the tires could create a catastrophic failure of your wheel, meaning it could break the wheel and you could have and accident.

I really wish people would learn all these things and if any one wants to it is all at the web site for the NHS and they would be very happy for all concerned that more people would learn how the be safe with there tires.

So you are saying that if I put 80 psi 10 ply tires on my truck, and the sticker says 35 psi, then I should run 35 psi in my LR E tires? B.S.!!!!!!!!! Go to your local tire store and tell them that. They will laugh you right out of their store. My local tire shop told me to never run 15 psi less than max tire psi. They said that if I do, I run the risk of premature failure of the tire.


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[f5moab]

Originally Posted by silverback 35ts

And the other thing that most people seem to not know or pay attention to is what is the max pressure that the WHEEL is built for, and I will guess that the wheels on your ford will only have a max pressure of may be 40 psi, so putting 44 psi in the tires could create a catastrophic failure of your wheel, meaning it could break the wheel and you could have and accident.

I really wish people would learn all these things and if any one wants to it is all at the web site for the NHS and they would be very happy for all concerned that more people would learn how the be safe with there tires.

Won't debate max vs. sticker pressure cause in most cases that is for ride quality and stopping distances. However, saying that the rims on a truck are maxed out at 40 psi is incorrect!

For one thing, from the factory the tires are usually inflated to MAX tire pressure to help seat them, and for storage purposes on different lots while headed to a dealer, and for when sitting on a dealer's lot. They usually do the exact sticker pressure during PDI.

And if you have a tire sticker that shows 35 psi, and you set that pressure on a cold morning, and the temps go up sixty degrees, that can easily happen between spring and summer, you have just exceeded the 40 psi you stated.

Every set of tire rims I have had, and I have had many, are rated well over 40 psi. Fancy 20" rims rated a bit less than the 16-18" standard for most trucks.

And to think the auto manufacture will ship vehicles with tires stamped with a max rating 4 psi above what the rim is rated for is a big lawsuit in the making.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Tonkatoy77

So you are saying that if I put 80 psi 10 ply tires on my truck, and the sticker says 35 psi, then I should run 35 psi in my LR E tires? B.S.!!!!!!!!! Go to your local tire store and tell them that. They will laugh you right out of their store. My local tire shop told me to never run 15 psi less than max tire psi. They said that if I do, I run the risk of premature failure of the tire.


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I think I would tell someone that put Load Range E tires on a vehicle that came with Passenger type tires was a waist of money as the rest of the suspension was not designed for more capacity than one would get from 35 psi in the OE size tire.

I also think the guy in your tire shop exaggerates a bit about premature failure. The general guideline for the definition of a "Flat tire" ie when damage may occur is a loss of 20% air pressure from what is needed to carry the load. Now if the inflation needed is 75 psi or more then yes loosing 15 psi may result in damage. BUT the MAX load capacity of a tire and the inflation needed to support that load may be greater than what your specific RV needs.

" I think I heard it one said that Generalizations are Generally wrong"

[Tonkatoy77]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I think I would tell someone that put Load Range E tires on a vehicle that came with Passenger type tires was a waist of money as the rest of the suspension was not designed for more capacity than one would get from 35 psi in the OE size tire.

I also think the guy in your tire shop exaggerates a bit about premature failure. The general guideline for the definition of a "Flat tire" ie when damage may occur is a loss of 20% air pressure from what is needed to carry the load. Now if the inflation needed is 75 psi or more then yes loosing 15 psi may result in damage. BUT the MAX load capacity of a tire and the inflation needed to support that load may be greater than what your specific RV needs.

" I think I heard it one said that Generalizations are Generally wrong"

I live in the Pacific Northwest where there are a lot of loggers. A lot of the logging crews are running F-150 crew cabs. They are running 10 ply tires to reduce flats from rock punctures. Carrying capacity isn't the only reason to run a heavier tire.

But whether you run 15% less or 20% less, the above post recommends, what, 55%? That, in my opinion, is a flat tire. And, on an 80 psi tire what's the difference between 15 and 20 percent? 4 psi. So 4 psi difference between your opinion and my tire guys opinion isn't much of an "exaggeration" to me.


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[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Tonkatoy77

I live in the Pacific Northwest where there are a lot of loggers. A lot of the logging crews are running F-150 crew cabs. They are running 10 ply tires to reduce flats from rock punctures. Carrying capacity isn't the only reason to run a heavier tire.

But whether you run 15% less or 20% less, the above post recommends, what, 55%? That, in my opinion, is a flat tire. And, on an 80 psi tire what's the difference between 15 and 20 percent? 4 psi. So 4 psi difference between your opinion and my tire guys opinion isn't much of an "exaggeration" to me.

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It was the 35 psi that caught my eye. If your placard actually says 35 then I figured your OE tires were Passenger tires and wondered why you would buy a P/U that came with PSR and then buy LT LR-E.

Do F150 Crew cabs come with standard load PSR tires? Maybe standard 2 door F150's do.

If an owner changes tires from the OE size, type or LR then it is the owners responsibility to learn the correct minimum inflation for the new tires and IMO to add a new sticker with the new information just as a dealer is suppose to do if they make significant changes to a vehicle and its tires.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I think I would tell someone that put Load Range E tires on a vehicle that came with Passenger type tires was a waist of money as the rest of the suspension was not designed for more capacity than one would get from 35 psi in the OE size tire...

Not true, 1/2 T PU that comes with P tires and they cannot carry the max load of the PU without a lot of squirming, etc.

[donniedu]

I see no conflict. Ford lists a PSI that offers a soft ride. The tire mfg lists a PSI on the side wall for maximum load carrying capacity for their product. BTW, the number Ford lists should equal the vehicles GVWR.

[mark0224]

Mine says on the id inside the door 265 75 17 and it came with OE 245 75 17 and yes unless you specify you want LT tires the come with P tires. The reason is most trucks are used as passenger vehicles not as a truck is meant to be used.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Not true, 1/2 T PU that comes with P tires and they cannot carry the max load of the PU without a lot of squirming, etc.

I'm confused. What did I say that was not true?

I said putting LT LR-E tires on a F150 was a waste of money. You think that is a good idea ?

I said the rest of the suspension in a F150 cannot support the full load that LT LR-E could carry. You seem to think the F150 can carry that loading?


I think the big problem is that a fictitious example was presented when someone tried to make a point and I made the mistake of responding.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by mark0224

Mine says on the id inside the door 265 75 17 and it came with OE 245 75 17 and yes unless you specify you want LT tires the come with P tires. The reason is most trucks are used as passenger vehicles not as a truck is meant to be used.

If your placard says P245/75R17 and you were given P265/75R17 then the dealer is in violation of Federal Regulation as the placard is suppose to match the equipment as sold by the dealer. If the dealer made the change at you8r request they were suppose to change the placard sticker.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by wpgman19

So the sidewalls on my F-150 TV tires (P-rated) state a max PSI of 44, yet the white sticker in the door states max PSI of 35 cold and states the load limits for front and rear axles. Do I get a higher load limit based on the 44 PSI stated on the sidewalls? If so, how do I find that out? I have been towing at the 44 PSI, and even there, I feel like the tries could use a bit more air (based on visual appearance and bounce), not less.

Back to the original question.
This is not a conflict. I do not believe the tires have a statement on them where 44 psi is associated with a load. Of course it would help if we knew the size designation including Load Index and Speed symbol of the tires and the wording on the tire placard.
Lacking that critical information we are all just guessing.

[Tonkatoy77]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

It was the 35 psi that caught my eye. If your placard actually says 35 then I figured your OE tires were Passenger tires and wondered why you would buy a P/U that came with PSR and then buy LT LR-E.

Do F150 Crew cabs come with standard load PSR tires? Maybe standard 2 door F150's do.

If an owner changes tires from the OE size, type or LR then it is the owners responsibility to learn the correct minimum inflation for the new tires and IMO to add a new sticker with the new information just as a dealer is suppose to do if they make significant changes to a vehicle and its tires.

1) it is not my pickup we are talking about. I will never own a 1/2 ton pickup again.

2) almost every 1/2 ton pickup I have looked at come factory with P series tires. You can just search through this forum and figure that out.

3) lol!!! That is the whole reason I posted in this thread in the first place!!! There was a comment earlier stating to ignore the PSI on the side of the tire, and only go by the sticker. That the manufacturer of the truck knows best, not the tire. And you really think the sticker should be changed every time the vehicle gets modified from OEM? Come on, get real!!!! If everybody were to do that, there would be a full time employee at every dealership across America changing stickers!


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[Tonkatoy77]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I think the big problem is that a fictitious example was presented when someone tried to make a point and I made the mistake of responding.

So because I gave you a perfect example of why LR E tires would be on and F-150, it is a fictitious example? I'd like to see you tell a logger they need to run P series tires on their crummies. That would be great. I'm starting to wonder what your name comes from. Do you mount bicycle tires?


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[Airdale]

Originally Posted by donniedu

I see no conflict. Ford lists a PSI that offers a soft ride. The tire mfg lists a PSI on the side wall for maximum load carrying capacity for their product. BTW, the number Ford lists should equal the vehicles GVWR.

Tire selections are determined by the vehicle's total GAWR. It supports the GVWR.

With trailers it's the total GAWR added to the manufacturer's hitch/pin weight.

Airdale

[Airdale]

Tire inflation pressures are found on every vehicle's certification label, tire placard and in it’s owner’s manual. They are not arbitrary. They are set in accordance with the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards that all vehicle manufacturer’s must abide.

Here are a couple of excerpts from those regulations.

“The vehicle normal load on the tire shall not be greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.”

“The size designation and recommended cold inflation pressure for those tires is such that the sum of the load ratings of the tires on each axle is appropriate for the GAWR.”

Those two out of context statements are found in two different regulations. So, you have to do a total research of the applicable regulations to find the correctness of statements.

It must be remembered that tire manufacturer’s are just that. Tire manufacturers. They build tires to the specifications needed by vehicle manufacturer’s. They have nothing to do with tire fitment selections or recommended tire pressures. They provide the necessary specifications for the manufacturers to make selections. In their specifications are the maximum load capacity value of the tire and the amount of inflation pressure needed to produce that maximum load capacity. The inflation pressures between maximum and minimum load capacities are provided mainly to assist vehicle manufacturers determine the appropriate recommended inflation pressures to be established for each tire fitment.

The bottom line is VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS are solely responsible for setting all recommended (correct) inflation pressures.

Vehicle manufacturer recommended inflation pressures are minimum requirements. And, those minimums are transferred to replacement tires that are not the same size as the vehicle’s original equipment tires. In short, the load capacity of the OE tires must be maintained with the replacement tires. How do you maintain load capacity? With inflation pressure.


Airdale

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Tonkatoy77

1) it is not my pickup we are talking about. I will never own a 1/2 ton pickup again.

2) almost every 1/2 ton pickup I have looked at come factory with P series tires. You can just search through this forum and figure that out.

3) lol!!! That is the whole reason I posted in this thread in the first place!!! There was a comment earlier stating to ignore the PSI on the side of the tire, and only go by the sticker. That the manufacturer of the truck knows best, not the tire. And you really think the sticker should be changed every time the vehicle gets modified from OEM? Come on, get real!!!! If everybody were to do that, there would be a full time employee at every dealership across America changing stickers!

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1. OK, Your decision is fine by me.
2. Don't need to search, I believe that almost all if not all 1/2 ton pick-ups made today come with P type tires.

3. As I understand it you were confused about the P tires on
a P/U that said "44 psi max" but the placard said inflate to 35.

I believe that if you read the load & inflation statement on your PSR you will see a statement of MAX Load associated with an inflation. As I covered in my blog on Sat.

"PSR & LTR Tires (load range E or less): Since FMVSS 139, these tires have sidewall markings indicating maximum load AND maximum pressure. Maximum load means max [static] load, and maximum pressure means max [operating] pressure (cold). With respect to the minimum pressure that carries the maximum load there is a difference:


· Passenger Tires: These tires are usually marked with a maximum pressure that exceeds the pressure necessary to carry the maximum load marked on the sidewall. For example, the tire may be marked with 44 psi max pressure, but only requires 35 psi to carry the max load.

· Light Truck Tires (load range E or less): These tires are usually marked with a maximum pressure that is also the pressure required to carry the maximum load. For example, a load range E tire marked with max 80 psi would need that same pressure to carry the max load."


I believe if you review the complete wording on your PSR tires your original question was answered with the works molded on the tire concerning what it's Max load capability was and the inflation needed to carry that load. The 44 psi statement was not associated with a statement on load capacity. If it was, it would be really helpful if you could provide a picture as yours would be a very unusual tire indeed.


Finally having the placard updated by the selling dealer is a federal regulation. If a dealership chooses to ignore the law that is up to them but ignorance of the law or choosing to ignore the law doesn't change the facts that the information on the placard is suppose to reflect the condition of the vehicle at the time of it's first retail sale.

Hope you had a nuce 4th.

[Tonkatoy77]

Man, you are hard to keep up with on this thread!!!!

I think you are confusing me with the OP. I DO NOT have a 1/2 ton pickup. I DO NOT have P series tires on my pickup. I am NOT confused by what my sticker says and what my tire says.

Earlier you stated that only a base model two door would come with P series tires. Now you're saying that you think ALL 1/2 tons have p series tires.

Earlier you said that in your opinion it's the owner of the trucks responsibility to change their white sticker if they have modded their vehicle in any way. Now you are saying it is the dealers that is selling the vehicles responsibility to change the sticker.

If you don't believe me, just go back and reread what you have typed. Back and forth through this entire thread! I don't get it.


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[Tonkatoy77]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I'm confused. What did I say that was not true?

I said putting LT LR-E tires on a F150 was a waste of money. You think that is a good idea ?

I said the rest of the suspension in a F150 cannot support the full load that LT LR-E could carry. You seem to think the F150 can carry that loading?


I think the big problem is that a fictitious example was presented when someone tried to make a point and I made the mistake of responding.

And, while I'm at it, I might as well speak up for Old Coot. He is saying not true about LR E tires being a waste of money on a 1/2 pickup that came with P series tires. He stated that they are NOT a waste of money because of the stability it gives the TV.


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[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Tonkatoy77

There was a comment earlier stating to ignore the PSI on the side of the tire, and only go by the sticker. That the manufacturer of the truck knows best, not the tire. And you really think the sticker should be changed every time the vehicle gets modified from OEM? Come on, get real!!!! If everybody were to do that, there would be a full time employee at every dealership across America changing stickers!

It's called an auxiliary tire information label and it's the responsibility of the tire installer at a retailer to provide the information to the vehicle owner and attach the auxiliary label.

A little research on your part would clear up the confusion. Here is a reference that follows industry standards for replacement tires. Just use the information that is applicable to the tires being installed. Appendix #4 depicts the Auxiliary tire info label.

http://www.tiresafety.com/images/Tir...t%20Manual.pdf

FastEagle

[B and B]

[QUOTE=Tonkatoy77;914548]And, while I'm at it, I might as well speak up for Old Coot. He is saying not true about LR E tires being a waste of money on a 1/2 pickup that came with P series tires. He stated that they are NOT a waste of money because of the stability it gives the TV.


I agree with both OC and Tonkatoy;

I did inflate my stock tires to 44 PSI as the MANUFACTURE of the tire in their spec sheet said to to increase load and stability. Stickers aside. Ford did not make the the tires they installed them made by Perrelli. It did get me a less squishy ride and better stability.

I was not happy with I had and upgraded to Load E tires. I purchased from a licensed tire dealer that the provincial government inspects for following the rules. I inflated these to 65 psi. The stability of the truck improved considerably from P series tires. No where did anyone say the sticker had to be changed.
This did not change the stated rating Ford did while testing the truck with P series. It did give me a tire that was not near the top of it loaded range and brought me to just less than half. Lots of good things here, tire life, heating from overload, stability and less sway etc.

I had a 1987 Ford Bronco I replaced the GY Wranglers P Series with Goodrich AT TA's LT tires (something not made any longer) because I did not like how it handled. What a difference and the stability was much better.

To make blanket statements that no one knows what the difference is is not fair to the many that have changed and have successful results. Same a CCC stickers, some go by the once others just use it as guideline and load up the truck. Give people a bit of break on what they know.

When i started towing in the 80's we had no stickers or lawyers or anything like that. Concerns with rear axle load, towing level with the right hitch and brake controller , making sure your tires were inflated correctly and a transmission cooler. A visit to the dealer and have a Service guy look on the microfiche for the specs on how your truck is equipped. Times have changed for sure.

I have a F 250 now and I am out of the 1/2 ton classification now.