This may be a good question for you,but anyone is free to jump in also.
The question is:
Reading on another RV forum that the owner of a FW brought a LT tire into a Walmart in GA for a repair. The Walmart refused to repair it saying it was against the law to repair LT tires.
The owner then took the tire to a Sears and they repaired it without citing any law forbidding repairing LT tires.
It is illegal to plug some tires so this may be what he asked for, just a thought!
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I have had LT e rated tires repaired many times, as long as the hole is not in the side wall, but the patch has to be on the inside and then plugged. But i take mine to a local very very small used tire shop and he does not even have a spin balancer, just a bubble balancer.
It is illegal to plug some tires so this may be what he asked for, just a thought!
Seems mixed by states. Some posters said that's illegal to repair trailer tires and others say they never heard of any such law.
One guy in Ohio said he had the same experience (didn't say it was Walmart) and another guy in Ohio said he had a "trailer tire" repaired by the same chain with no problem.
I've had dozens of trailer and Lt truck tires patched over the years. I won't let anybody plug them, unless its an emergency or on the farm repair, as ive always had plugs start leaking within a month.
Of course no sidewall patches, I dont think they would stay with the sidewall flex anyway, have plugged a couple trailer tires that were on the corner and patch questionable, on my own on equipment trailers
Your good for fixin' 'em here in OK!
I've had dozens of trailer and Lt truck tires patched over the years. I won't let anybody plug them, unless its an emergency or on the farm repair, as ive always had plugs start leaking within a month.
Of course no sidewall patches, I dont think they would stay with the sidewall flex anyway, have plugged a couple trailer tires that were on the corner and patch questionable, on my own on equipment trailers
Your good for fixin' 'em here in OK!
MillerTime- Future Sabre Handler!!
The thing that caught my attention and prompted me to start this thread was him mentioning that Walmart cited a law (at least a GA law) that prohibited them from repairing a LT tire.
I can understand and appreciate any business decision or policy to do or not do anything they don't want to - but the law thing is what I was really asking about.
This may be a good question for you,but anyone is free to jump in also.
The question is:
Reading on another RV forum that the owner of a FW brought a LT tire into a Walmart in GA for a repair. The Walmart refused to repair it saying it was against the law to repair LT tires.
The owner then took the tire to a Sears and they repaired it without citing any law forbidding repairing LT tires.
What's your take on this?
I actually encounter this fairly frequently, and have even caught a former manager of mine stating something along similar lines.
There are actual specific laws where some things are concerned..... and then there is liability laws, which aren't as specific, but are generally broad in what constitutes liability from a business standpoint.
Many people say the term 'illegal', when they really should state it's a liability issue.
Most tire shops conform to tire repair procedures outlined by the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA). The RMA, as the name states, is made up by members of many tire manufacturers, etc. States can also have lawful procedures that must be adhered to......as well as the National Highway Traffic Safety Association.(NHTSA)
The RMA tire repair procedures can be found on the internet, and here:
You will encounter tire people/shops that don't necessarily have the best trained or informed technicians. This is unfortunately an all too common occurance in my business.
They may have different repair policies than other tire shops... and it may be because they are ignorant to how to do it correct, don't want to do it and would rather sell a tire (commission sales), don't want the liability that it may entail, are not allowed to do it because of a previous liability/legal problem.
It's really hard for me to access the total situation, since I don't know the full details. I can say from many previous experiences, that customers will try to get you to do all kind of illegal (or liable) things to save themselves money. I have PO'd many a person, because I wouldn't help them commit suicide or kill other people with their tire problems.
I always take the position that it may be my daughter who is the one they crash into when their improper tire goes out and they lose control of their vehicle. They also will conveniently lose any memory of telling you to do it wrong, when they are facing lawsuits or damages. It is ALWAYS the tire professional fault if something goes wrong that can be traced back to them.......cause they are just that, the professional who should know better.
We learned at a tire seminar to NEVER get a customer to sign a waiver form, for a procedure that shouldn't be done. This is basically putting it in writing that the tire professional knew it shouldn't be done, and did it anyway. Waivers are signing your definite liability for a tire shop.
As I said, what some tire techs may say is "illegal', is really in actuality a "legal liability" thing.....and is just worded wrong.
You will find different tire shops, will do different things. They all should adhere to RMA tire repair guidelines, but this is not the case. Any tire shop that will insert a "plug" into a tire from the outside....is definitely one to stay way from. If they don't dismount the tire to observe the damage that the tire may possibly have on the inside, they are not your friend...and may even kill you.
We had a woman this morning who came into the shop to get a tire, because she had it plugged the other day and didn't feel good about it. When we dismounted it, it was shredded on the inside from where she had driven it low/flat. Her guardian angel was looking out for her and her child, and she liked to have passed out when we showed it to her. We still don't know why it hadn't exploded. You can only see this kind of damage when a tire is dismounted, which you should ALWAYS have done when repairing ANY tire. I cannot stress this enough.
__________________ 2011 Flagstaff 831 RLBSS
A 72 hour hold in a psych unit is beginning to intrigue me as a potential vacation opportunity.
Wntire - Thanks for your knowledgeable reply. I definitely learned somethings about tires and the repair of them that I didn't know before.
I am just guessing that your 7th paragraph ( wanting to get the commission,etc.) pretty well sums it up for a lot of tire stores.
Question - if a tire store or chain is a member of the RMA, are they required to or can they display a piece of paper on the wall stating such? Might be something to look for next time.
B, thats what I meant. There isn't a law in oklahoma. I work in a dealership that fixes them, and I would have heard about it if there was a law. Besides 2 of my buddys having tire shops.
B, thats what I meant. There isn't a law in oklahoma. I work in a dealership that fixes them, and I would have heard about it if there was a law. Besides 2 of my buddys having tire shops.
MillerTime- Future Sabre Handler!!
Yep - that's what I'm seeing here. Thanks to all for their input.
Plug patches are great for larger holes, but aren't a cure all as a large projectile will damage the belts and open the door for a possible belt failure. My rule of thumb, if when the object was removed if the hole closed on it's own then it got a regular flat patch but if it was open at all I'd plug patch it to seal off moisture from the belt area. If I could see through the hole I wouldn't fix it.
So they're very good things, problem is you need a trained repair tech to recognize when to stop. I've seen a couple of plugs in a hole, trimmed off flush inside and then patched. Not a quality repair at all.
As for the OP, people looking to get something fixed won't take liability or unsafe as an answer. But illegal? They'll swallow that usually. Even if it's incorrect terminology it removes the situation and washes your hands. What the shop down the street does you can't help, but at least you tried to do the right thing and at least protected yourself and your shop.
I know that some manufacturers of these combo repair units do indeed call them patch/plug combination units...........I always try to refer to them (especially in talking to customers) as a patch/insert unit. I avoid the word "plug" in all my conversations, as that word brings up a different connotation in customers mind and can confuse them to what it is you are doing.
I know this is really taking the subject matter deeper than the OP intended. but this is something that our members may need to educate themselves on. If you have a warranty claim on a tire, the absolute FIRST thing the manufacturer looks for, is an improperly repaired tire (Not fixed to RMA standards). If they find a "plug" only in the tire, that's usually where they will stop and then deny a warranty claim. So in essence, if you repair a tire with a "plug" only...you just voided your manufacturer warranty on that tire.
You wouldn't believe how many customers come in, asking for a plug. They are under the false illusion, that this is how you properly repair a tire. You basically have to hold their hand, and explain the PROPER repair sequence to them.................or give them a tire education 101. This can be time consuming on a repair that doesn't make a tire shop money, but you do as a profit-loss service.
Besides showing the customer, the RMA chart for tire repair procedures (we have one in the front customer area), I use the following visual:
1. I take a newspaper or a magazine that may be handy on the counter. I then take an ink pen, and then jab it thru several pages (that I'm holding the pages tight together and the pages are the belts of the tire) to represent a plug going thru the belts of the tire.
2. I then show the customer, where the plug is sticking thru the inside of the represented tire, and how the paper has places for air to try and go back up the plug and escape. The paper will be all jagged around the pen(plug).
3. Now I show the customer, that if the air cannot escape back straight thru the pen/plug hole, it will start trying to go horizontal, and actually separate the belts (as I pull the pages apart a little on the pen). I show them how air will go between the belts, separating them from the encased rubber. This is what is called a "separated" tire. A separated tire is junk and must be thrown away.
4. I then push the paper pages back together, and remove the pen/plug. I show the customer how the paper lays back smooth, and then you place a patch on the inside, thus blocking the air from being able to try and separate the pages/belts.
5. I tell them the insert is used to keep dirt and water from working on the patch.
This visual representation is usually enough to educate them, and we repair the tire correctly.
However, we encounter several customers each week, who can't be educated.......nor care for the cost of properly repairing a tire ($15 is our standard rate). They will neither believe us, nor want to pay that....and leave in search of a tire shop that will do a non RMA approved repair. Unfortunately, there are tire places that will do just that, which is possibly helping the customer commit suicide or hurt others in my eyes.
It's just like that woman, we had this morning. Whomever plugged her tire without dismounting it to see the tire was destroyed internally, could have been responsible for her tire blowing apart and hurting her, her small child...or an innocent person who this woman may have crashed into when the tire exploded.
Those kind of people have no business being in the tire industry, and should be shunned. It is exactly this kind of person, that some states may have laws to try and regulate.........or not.
__________________ 2011 Flagstaff 831 RLBSS
A 72 hour hold in a psych unit is beginning to intrigue me as a potential vacation opportunity.
There is one more reason for a car repair garage/dealership (not so much a high volume tire shop) not to repair a flat.
They happen to have a set of near overage tires that will fit and need to move them. ALWAYS ask to see the date code when you buy tires and (IMO) never accept a tire with a manufacture date over a year old.
While those tires may have been stored properly (and not up in the attic of "Joe's Car Repair" who got them during a warehouse overage flush), why spend good money buying a tire with reduced service life for new?
Buying a "new" tire that is 3 or 4 years old is a total waste of money and you can BET that "Good Ole' Joe" won't tell you.
If you care, many manufacturers have plants that make similar size/models in different countries. If you prefer one over another, you can ask about the plant codes too. Goodyear Marathons for example are made overseas but are also made in the Gadsden, Alabama plant (code MD).
2011 Flagstaff 831 RLBSS
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