Zerc/grease amount

[sail2liv]

Have read it all and still in state of confusion....some say give a couple squirts every 1-2k miles...some say pump the cavity full till if fills up and comes back at you....some say new ones come from factory with cavity empty so take a lot to get it coming back at you....question = how do you know how many pumps???? and when do you get concerned that it may be going somewhere other than the diagramed cavity???? and if you just give it a couple of squirts and it doesn t come back at you are you lubing everything???? why do anything until 6000 miles....since that is what factory recommends....providing you have not immersed them.....
the 6 mo. / 6k miles is for my axles....others may have different time frame....I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PACKING BEARING AND SUCH AS THAT WILL BE DONE ANNUALLY, THIS IS JUST ABOUT PUMPING GREASE INTO ZERC.....one final question, where does the grease go if the system is closed and working properly? I guess if you give it one to two squirts every 1000 miles or so it will eventually fill the cavity and come back at you....????? Oh btw....weight of 5 er is 8000 lbs and speed driven is 56-58 mph twin 4000 lb alko that support about 6600 lbs....at least 4 trips a month ranging from 50 to 250 miles. So trailer is moved about every 7 to 14 days.....when you reply - especially the 1-2 squirts every now and then - do you see the grease coming back at you.....and those of you that pump till it does - does a tube take care of 4 hubs...and how many pumps are required along with type of grease gun......thanks

[youroo]

The cavity is (NOT) full from the Fac. Filling from the (Zerk) fitting will require LOTs of grease. Give the Zerk a few pumps ,then remove the outer brg. and hand pack it. Proper way is dismantel hub assy,clean,inspect,replace worn parts,replace seals,lub brgs.and reassemble. By pumping grease into the Zerk fitting you are only (Guessing) it is your call! Youroo!!

[sail2liv]

Pulled wheel caps and torqued all nuts. Removed dust cover over zerc and found red grease on starboard side and gray grease on port side which of course has the slide and make fitting more difficult to get to if
slide is extended like at dealer.....Since the grease I purchased is red, I am figuring that the dealer squirted the two zerc s on the easy side and did not service the ones on the slide side....hmmmmm so put 5 squirts in the side that had red grease and 10 in side that had the gray....none of the ones serviced had grease come out at me....but two of the had the cotter keys up against the zerc to had to adjust those to get nozzle on them....done for now....thanks to all those who replied and hope this info
might help others that can do simple tasks but are reluctant at time to attempt......good luck to all....remember 32 degrees spells Florida......

[TeJay]

sail2liv,
With 40+ years in the field and having owned 2 MH's and 3 TT's here's my take on the situation. My only goal is to share what I've learned so all have more trouble free miles.

These are reasons why one should not use the grease gun method. My experience tells me to avoid any service method that opens one up to more problems. I believe the gun method was introduced because of boat trailers and to make it easier to inject grease.

The grease gun method filled with problems. The hole in the axle which is designed to allow lube to travel to the inner bearing is small. To make it easier to travel the distance the recommended lube is thinner. Now we all know if we are told to give it 2-3 squirts of grease every 2-3 thousand miles some or many think 4-6 is better. I have read many stories how guys pulled their drums off after the first 6,000 miles or so and the inner seal was blown out and the shoes and hub were covered with grease. What caused the seal to blow??? That seems to happen more than is needed and while some may have success with the gun method it will never happen to me.

Wheel bearings on cars/trucks need repacked every 30,000 to 40,000 miles. Why do we have to re-pack trailers every 12-months or 12,000 miles???? It makes no sense to me and it never will. Here's what I always do. Camper is driven to my house. Within a month new tires are installed. I do that so the old tires can be traded in. The China bearings are removed and Toyo bearings are installed. The hubs are wiped clean and 1/4" of Amzoil bearing grease is placed on the inside surface of the hub to control moisture. New seals installed and bearings hand-packed. Correctly set the bearing clearances and leave it alone for the next 20,000 to 30,000 miles. The grease will last for 100,000 miles. The clearance will never change so why bother it until it's necessary???
JMTCW
TeJay

[jdadoug]

X2 what teejay said! jdadoug

[prairiecamper]

Originally Posted by sail2liv

Have read it all and still in state of confusion....some say give a couple squirts every 1-2k miles...some say pump the cavity full till if fills up and comes back at you....some say new ones come from factory with cavity empty so take a lot to get it coming back at you....question = how do you know how many pumps???? and when do you get concerned that it may be going somewhere other than the diagramed cavity???? and if you just give it a couple of squirts and it doesn t come back at you are you lubing everything???? why do anything until 6000 miles....since that is what factory recommends....providing you have not immersed them.....
the 6 mo. / 6k miles is for my axles....others may have different time frame....I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PACKING BEARING AND SUCH AS THAT WILL BE DONE ANNUALLY, THIS IS JUST ABOUT PUMPING GREASE INTO ZERC.....one final question, where does the grease go if the system is closed and working properly? I guess if you give it one to two squirts every 1000 miles or so it will eventually fill the cavity and come back at you....????? Oh btw....weight of 5 er is 8000 lbs and speed driven is 56-58 mph twin 4000 lb alko that support about 6600 lbs....at least 4 trips a month ranging from 50 to 250 miles. So trailer is moved about every 7 to 14 days.....when you reply - especially the 1-2 squirts every now and then - do you see the grease coming back at you.....and those of you that pump till it does - does a tube take care of 4 hubs...and how many pumps are required along with type of grease gun......thanks

I'm sure I have the knowledge to answer your question, if i could only understand what it is you are trying to ask, maybe its me. I am assuming you are talking about wheel bearings but not being removed from axle? For instance auto/truck steering components and ball/u-joints are lubed until signs of old grease are seen being extruded. The wheel bearings on our new silverback with the dexter E-Z lube axles with zerk in the hub, dexter says to lube until signs of new grease can be seen coming back out the cap rotating the hub or drum during the process. These systems are not totally sealed and as the grease deteriorates and escapes it needs to be replenished at the recommended intervals. Sealed bearings of course never need greasing, not to mention that there are different greases for different applications! Hopes this helps!!

[WestCoastRV'er]

I think the number of squirts of grease depends on your grease gun. I estimate that it would take 5-8 squirts for about 1 teaspoon of grease.

[Nigels]

Sail2liv, there is some useful info posted here but all may not be relevant to your hubs.

You have a 2013 Flagstaff fifth wheel and my bet is that you have AL-KO Ultrulube bearings, check your manuals they gave you, if not ignore this post.

You do not have to disassemble your hubs and bearings unless you have a big problem, or doing an inspection to check to see if your bearings are worn, I guess you don't have either since your rig is new.

These AL-KO hubs with zerks are designed to filled with a grease gun of hand pump type or the pressurized type that work shops use. The number of pumps you do with a hand type grease gun to either top up or refill is irrelevant.

If you suspect that there is not enough grease in the hub simply remove the rubber cap off the Zerk, pump in more grease until excess grease comes out of the assembly in front of you and wipe it off. You cannot overdo this and will not damage the rear seal and fill your drums with grease, it is designed for this.

If you suspect the trailer manufacturer used inferior grease and you want to replace all of it with the correct grease then buy 2 tubes of NLGI Grade 2 lithium Complex grease with a minimum dropping point of 440 deg F and pump each hub Zerk until loads of the old grease comes out followed by the new grease, then pump some more until only new grease comes out. the grease is cheap! replace rubber cap.

You do not need to jack up the wheels to do this, although it will not hurt if you spin the wheels occasionally whilst you do this.

I replaced all the grease in all my bearings using this AL-KO recommended method soon after taking delivery of my rig 18 months ago and I have clocked up 24000 miles. I check hub temperature with my hand (Carefully)almost every time I stop, always cool so no problems.

AL-KO do recommend disassembly to check for "worn and otherwise damaged parts" annually, but IMO I think this is a get out clause. IMO if the bearings are full of grease, run cool, do not leak grease at the Zerk and do not have excessive play when the wheel off the ground is rocked side to side then they are fine.

I also have a boat trailer and this is a whole different story, annual disassembly and repacking by hand, but not with those AL-KO's

Just my 3 pence worth.

[Herk7769]

I have been following Nigel's procedure for 4 years now and my bearings are never even warm to the touch after hours of driving at highway speeds.

Annual inspections have never been a problem.
Never had grease on the brakes.

The only time I had trouble putting grease into a Zerk fitting; I STOPPED.
After replacing the Zerk it took grease just fine.

IMO, NEVER force grease into a slow Zerk. Using that "hammer tool" to open the Zerk or a pressure grease gun is just asking for a blown rear seal.

[WestCoastRV'er]

I totally agree.

[TeJay]

I do have my opinion regarding this issue but I am always open to accept new technology. When that happens I will change my opinion. Here's my concern Is there something about the AL-KO Ultrulube design set up that will prevent the rear seal from blowing out if to much grease is pumped into the axle hub??? When the grease is pumped into the hub it usually passes through a narrow passage way to get to the inner bearing. When that grease is replaced with the new then the grease travels outward and eventually replaces the hub grease and the outer wheel bearing grease. Maybe the AL-KO set up prevents the seals from blowing out. I'll look them up on the net to see.
TeJay

[Nigels]

Originally Posted by TeJay

I do have my opinion regarding this issue but I am always open to accept new technology. When that happens I will change my opinion. Here's my concern Is there something about the AL-KO Ultrulube design set up that will prevent the rear seal from blowing out if to much grease is pumped into the axle hub??? When the grease is pumped into the hub it usually passes through a narrow passage way to get to the inner bearing. When that grease is replaced with the new then the grease travels outward and eventually replaces the hub grease and the outer wheel bearing grease. Maybe the AL-KO set up prevents the seals from blowing out. I'll look them up on the net to see.
TeJay

What you describe is exactly what happens, you could pump gallons of grease in and gallons will come out the front, however (as Herk mentioned) there is a possibility pressure type grease guns could pump in faster than it can make its way so it could exert too much force on the rear seal and blow grease out there too. AL-KO do not mention this possibility at all, not even as a get out clause so maybe this is not an issue to be too concerned about.

Here's another thing, the AL-KO system, unlike conventional type hand packed bearings, displaces all the air, this is a good thing. Air expands when hot and can help force grease past a rear seal, and worse, on a boat trailer when a drum rapidly cools when reversed into the ocean the contracting air pocket can create a partial vacuum and suck sea water past the seal into the bearings for this reason I have fitted Bearing Buddies to my boat trailer bearings, these mimic the AL-KO system by allowing me to pump grease until it flows out the front thus eliminating air pockets.

[caper]

The rear seals can be blow out by just using a hand pump grease gun. I followed the instructions in my info pack I received with the unit. Old grease was exiting from the from but it was also going past the rear seals. I did not know till going down a long hill in northern Ont. It is not a pleasure trying to stop your trailer on a steep hill using the truck brakes. My trailer does not have the grease fittings on the hubs any longer. I only grease the bearing the old way. I do not want to have the rear seals leak again. I know that many people have good luck with the greasing of the hub. But if a rear seal is leaking you do not know until it it too late and you have no brakes on the trailer.

[Nigels]

Originally Posted by caper

The rear seals can be blow out by just using a hand pump grease gun. I followed the instructions in my info pack I received with the unit. Old grease was exiting from the from but it was also going past the rear seals. I did not know till going down a long hill in northern Ont. It is not a pleasure trying to stop your trailer on a steep hill using the truck brakes. My trailer does not have the grease fittings on the hubs any longer. I only grease the bearing the old way. I do not want to have the rear seals leak again. I know that many people have good luck with the greasing of the hub. But if a rear seal is leaking you do not know until it it too late and you have no brakes on the trailer.

Were these AL-KO bearings or conventional bearings with Bearing Buddies?

[prairiecamper]

Originally Posted by caper

The rear seals can be blow out by just using a hand pump grease gun. I followed the instructions in my info pack I received with the unit. Old grease was exiting from the from but it was also going past the rear seals. I did not know till going down a long hill in northern Ont. It is not a pleasure trying to stop your trailer on a steep hill using the truck brakes. My trailer does not have the grease fittings on the hubs any longer. I only grease the bearing the old way. I do not want to have the rear seals leak again. I know that many people have good luck with the greasing of the hub. But if a rear seal is leaking you do not know until it it too late and you have no brakes on the trailer.

There are other reasons your rear seals where blown out and it had little to do with using a hand grease gun! The seal could have faulty, or excessive heat on the hub could have weakened it? The rate at which the grease is inserted, the type of grease, or perhaps even a slight blockage in the passages where it exits out the cap could all contribute to allowing it pass the rear seal!

[caper]

They were AL-KO hubs. I agree that the seals could have been faulty. I used the grease recommended by AL-KO. The seals could have been faulty. But when going down a 8% grade hill and no brakes on the TT makes for a white knuckle ride. Because of the experience I will no longer be using the grease fittings on the hub to apply grease. Plus after talking to 4 different RV repair facilities and having all the repairs tech. say that the AL-KO fitting should not be used I will be greasing my bearing the old way.

[TeJay]

OK, I taught High School for 35 years. Since I started in 1971 we had a lot of wheel bearings to pack & adjust. We had no front wheel drive & the rear axle bearings were lubed by the 70-90 WT axle lube from the differential.
In all my years I never had a seal fail on any student, faculty, or personnel vehicle. I did discover some failed seals upon initial inspection. I have often re-used the same seal. All bearings were hand packed. I also never advocated packing the hub full of grease. A 1/4" layer of grease inside the hub to control moisture build up was all I ever recommended. When the hub is filled with grease it prevents or slows down the release of the bearing and brake heat. All heat must escape & or be transferred to the hub & then the drum or rotor. The extra grease will affect that transfer or easy flow of heat.

I am out on the Eastern shore in MD visiting my Son & his family. There are tons of big & small boat trailers here. I've observed & most don't have suspensions or shocks. They probably have brakes, either hydraulic or electric. If boat trailers, as I suspect, were the forerunners of TT frames I see why they are what they are. Brake buddies, Never-Lube, short cut methods to lubing wheel bearings that don't really need to be done as recommend because they are not immersed into the lake weekly. This is why, I believe we have this system that allows the consumer to short circuit the usual good methods, hand packing bearings, to save some time.

I'll stick with what I know will work because it has in the past & will for the future. The only change I made was to synthetic lube when it became available. JMTCW
TeJay

[Herk7769]

I always wonder if when they pull the hub off the spindle if mechanics take care to ensure the seal face does not contact the threads. Even a minor scrape might damage a rear axle seal and make it susceptible to blow out with even moderate grease pressure, I would think.

[prairiecamper]

That's a cool graphic herk, I was always careful removing the hub off the spindle so that I might be able to reuse the seal, however exercised much more caution on the re-installation because that is where it is really important. If you remove it and see damage you can replace it. How many look at the seal real close before re-install?

[Nigels]

Which brings us around yet again to the same old question: How come I can buy a new car and the bearings will last +100000 miles without ever giving them a thought?