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Old 11-07-2016, 07:47 AM   #1
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Upcharge for G rated tires

We've purchased a Cardinal, 3950TZ, and we want G rated tires, instead of the E's they come with. The rims are suited for G's, and it's beyond me why Forest River doesn't make the G's standard, and I realize they are standard on the Estate package. Nonetheless, they should be standard on the Cardinal, seeing the weight of the rig, and the fact the rims are suitable. The dealer is quoting an upcharge of just over 1,000.00, which I think is high, since the price of the rig, already takes into consideration the E rated tires it comes with. Has anyone out there upgraded, and if so, what kind of charge were you hit with?
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:56 AM   #2
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I upgraded, and it was about the cost you noted. Remember, that's 5 tires, not just 4. the spare is also a G rated wheel/tire. My only regret is that I didn't also spring for the disc brakes at the time. the standard drums ones are working ok, but I think I would have liked the disc brakes better.
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:59 AM   #3
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The quote they've given is only for four tires, not five. I could live with the spare being an E. I just find it a little steep, since we're essentially already paying for the tires the rig comes with.
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:03 AM   #4
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The quote they've given is only for four tires, not five. I could live with the spare being an E. I just find it a little steep, since we're essentially already paying for the tires the rig comes with.
Are you ordering the rig?

Maybe you can just make it part of the deal or put the tires on after delivery and sell the originals on eBay to offset the cost.
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:07 AM   #5
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we ordered the rig at the Hershey show. I should have made it part of the deal, but I didn't. Kicking myself now. Not picking it up for a while, and i'm trying to get them to work with me, but at the same time I realize it costs the dealer something. For safety sake, I know I'll be getting the G's regardless. I'm more frustrated on my initial point, the rims are suited for G's.....but they put E's on them.....DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME!!! WHO MAKES THAT DECISION AT FOREST RIVER, AND WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING??????
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:37 AM   #6
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My Silverback came with "E". I believe MOST of us would prefer a choice at BUILD even at an up charge.
DEALERS ARE STUCK!! What can they get for "used" tires? I see sets on Craigslist ( RV ) almost new for $200 all the time. These rv's roll from Indiana over harsh roads. No one is going into dealerships requesting used tires.
It HAS TO START AT THE FACTORY.
Since tires seem to be the most discussed issue on any forum; i.e.; Keystone as well, unless consumers are willing to "walk" vs buy, this will continue.
Buyers are overly concerned about where the fireplace is vs safety. I am as guilty as the others.
MAYBE, the factory could start with a buyer experience questionnaire and start logging pluses or minus on a satisfaction index. Prioritize and become a consumer driven favorite.
FR has begun by their repairs at the rally and favorable treatment to original buyers, in warranty or lapsed.
My personal experience has been very favorable.
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:49 AM   #7
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we ordered the rig at the Hershey show. I should have made it part of the deal, but I didn't. Kicking myself now. Not picking it up for a while, and i'm trying to get them to work with me, but at the same time I realize it costs the dealer something. For safety sake, I know I'll be getting the G's regardless. I'm more frustrated on my initial point, the rims are suited for G's.....but they put E's on them.....DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME!!! WHO MAKES THAT DECISION AT FOREST RIVER, AND WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING??????
So, as another point of view. You must consider the trailer "as a package"; changing a component has impact on the system. Some may be small, but others could have significant impact on other components.

The design engineers balance a lot of eggs when this all goes together. Not saying this is true in your case, but consider:

Increasing axle load range could result in larger vertical forces which could shake the cabinets off the walls, so heavier and more frequent internal structures need to be added; thicker wood; perhaps even thicker wall materials to prevent cracking at wall penetrations. All that increases unladed weight and you are back to needing bigger axles.

In the case of higher range tires than needed for the actual camper weight rating; they are heavier and much stiffer, and can cause issues similar to heavier axles. Most of us are willing to accept the stiffer ride and the occasional broken dish for the road trash resistance of single up-ranged tires, but they are not necessary for safety so long as the OEM tires are matched to the load at GVWR they will need to carry.

Again, just an another opinion. Herk
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Old 11-07-2016, 09:05 AM   #8
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"beyond me why Forest River doesn't make the G's standard"

I believe it has to do with achieving a certain price point for a particular "package." Tires are not the only issue. I could draw up a list, but I will just add one - a power protection system. What you can't see is the stressful unknown.

Based on the posts in various forums I have read, just not this website, it seems that most of the new buyers don't understand either their usage needs, build quality, component quality, or the concept of what they are buying - a jigsaw puzzle made up of pieces from other puzzles, quickly mixed together and shoved out the door. (This is an industry wide comment)

Basically you are buying a "package" that is custom built at the factory. They don't do production runs of a model. They plug in all kinds of stuff from unrelated mfgs, hence you can end up with a very large package of instructions and warranties where you have to go back to each mfg for help.

Modern quality controls have not been implemented and build quality is fixed with PDIs, which vary. The ultimate quality person being the owner.

Which leads to the point that the buyer is essentially the go to person on everything. The more experience and fit personality you have the better you are at being an RV owner and buyer and maintenance person.

TO THE POINT
Many owners are not only unable to look at their RV extensively in detail and decide what they should think about, let alone have for each component, like tires, but they are also untrained in maintaining or repairing their RV, so you have all these help me posts, and lists of hopeful possibilities as replies.

As well as questions like how can I pay all this money and end up with xxxx. Why don't they do this and that. Etc.

How many buyers know that the house portion is not covered by lemon laws, the ccc is often too low, the tires just good enough to move the trailer around the lot, etc. (long long list of etc.), the chassis rusting before they ever put the house on it.
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Old 11-07-2016, 10:05 AM   #9
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I agree with everything. I've always felt that basically, the mfg's throw these things together, because as someone recently made a good point, they're assemblers, not mfg's. Everything about them, in most cases, is cheap, and cheaply (and quickly) assembled.
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Old 11-07-2016, 01:56 PM   #10
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Dylanfreak,
Since you ordered the trailer and it has not yet been delivered I would think your dealer could contact Cardinal at Forest River and get the tires changed to the "Gs". There would still be a cost, but at least you would not have to deal with disposing of a set of tires. Also there is a Cardinal RV Club that you should log on to and join, once you have done that they may be able to help you also. Good luck and Welcome to the Cardinal family.
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Old 11-07-2016, 04:23 PM   #11
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Lot's of good information here. Let me add a little regulation knowledge to the fire.

The trailer manufacturer is not going to allow anything other than the Original Tire size to be used, unless, they have identified an optional package for that particular trailer or model line-up.

Why? You might ask. Once the OE tires are installed and the trailer is certified for delivery to the retailer/dealer the tire sizes and load capacities are locked-in. A like sized brand of the same size can be used, but, that's it. Why, again? Because the regulations are very specific about this. At the time of first sale the tires on the trailer MUST match the information on the certification label in, design, size and load capacity. The dealer's hands are tied because they cannot change the certification label without the permission of the vehicle manufacturer.

Why is the design important? The vehicle manufacturer was directed by regulation to set the recommended tire inflation pressures for the OE tires. load inflation charts for ST tires are not compatible with LT or P tires. LT tire load inflation charts are not compatible with ST or P tires. (That story is a lot longer than that).
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Old 11-07-2016, 09:36 PM   #12
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I would call NTB tire sale or a local trailer sales and ask if they can work a deal.
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Old 11-07-2016, 10:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylanfreak View Post
We've purchased a Cardinal, 3950TZ, and we want G rated tires, instead of the E's they come with. The rims are suited for G's, and it's beyond me why Forest River doesn't make the G's standard, and I realize they are standard on the Estate package. Nonetheless, they should be standard on the Cardinal, seeing the weight of the rig, and the fact the rims are suitable. The dealer is quoting an upcharge of just over 1,000.00, which I think is high, since the price of the rig, already takes into consideration the E rated tires it comes with. Has anyone out there upgraded, and if so, what kind of charge were you hit with?
At etrailer.com you have a choice of two G rated tires at this very moment. I searched for 235-80/R16 like my Wildcat Sterling has. The cost was $175 and $224 including shipping.

At that price you can buy new tires for less than the dealer is charging, sell your E rated tires and save even more money
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Old 12-17-2016, 09:42 PM   #14
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We have a 2015 Cardinal 3850 RL. We just upgraded to Goodyear G614 RST. Purchase price at a Goodyear Commercial & RV service center was $1,393.47 for four tires. Goodyear gave us a credit of $191.00 per tire (equal to the cost of a Marathon tire each cost). Total credit for 4 tires $764.00.
The reason they gave us the credit is because we had (3) severe blow outs and a damaged 4th tire. In one round trip. We just got our trailer back after just under $8,400.00 in damage. Insurance covered all but the deductible. (I have a previous post in September).
Goodyear definitely stood behind their product. They gave us the tire credit and also paid for the emergency roadside service and deductibles.
We had under 6,000 miles and 1 1/2 years on our tires. Always maintained at proper tire pressure and there was no road hazard.
We were told by roadside servicemen and tire personnel that the Marathon tire is a quality tire. It is 10 ply and can't with stand the weight, side to side sway factor and road friction of the taller heavier trailers even though they fall within the legal tire specs.
G614 14 ply rated tires were recommended or 14 ply rated whatever tire we chose.
We advised Forest River about this and were told that is just that, their opinion.
Well they work with tires everyday and I value their opinion and hands on expertise.

Long story short, I would get those e-rated tires changed out. I wished we would have!
We just didn't know better and trusted that the ones on it would be fine.
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:43 PM   #15
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We have a 2015 Cardinal 3850 RL. We just upgraded to Goodyear G614 RST. Purchase price at a Goodyear Commercial & RV service center was $1,393.47 for four tires. Goodyear gave us a credit of $191.00 per tire (equal to the cost of a Marathon tire each cost). Total credit for 4 tires $764.00.
The reason they gave us the credit is because we had (3) severe blow outs and a damaged 4th tire. In one round trip. We just got our trailer back after just under $8,400.00 in damage. Insurance covered all but the deductible. (I have a previous post in September).
Goodyear definitely stood behind their product. They gave us the tire credit and also paid for the emergency roadside service and deductibles.
We had under 6,000 miles and 1 1/2 years on our tires. Always maintained at proper tire pressure and there was no road hazard.
We were told by roadside servicemen and tire personnel that the Marathon tire is a quality tire. It is 10 ply and can't with stand the weight, side to side sway factor and road friction of the taller heavier trailers even though they fall within the legal tire specs.
G614 14 ply rated tires were recommended or 14 ply rated whatever tire we chose.
We advised Forest River about this and were told that is just that, their opinion.
Well they work with tires everyday and I value their opinion and hands on expertise.

Long story short, I would get those e-rated tires changed out. I wished we would have!
We just didn't know better and trusted that the ones on it would be fine.
Even with the upgraded tires you should take your trailer to some scales, loaded with whatever your normal load is for traveling. You may be surprised by the difference in loads per individual axle and individual wheel position (even with their close spacing).

All on-board water is considered and stored as cargo.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:09 PM   #16
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Thank you.

Thank you, we will have it weighed. We always tow with barley any water fresh or holding. We do have a generator. If we have any more problems we may need to have the axels checked.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:35 PM   #17
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We've purchased a Cardinal, 3950TZ, and we want G rated tires, instead of the E's they come with. The rims are suited for G's, and it's beyond me why Forest River doesn't make the G's standard, and I realize they are standard on the Estate package. Nonetheless, they should be standard on the Cardinal, seeing the weight of the rig, and the fact the rims are suitable. The dealer is quoting an upcharge of just over 1,000.00, which I think is high, since the price of the rig, already takes into consideration the E rated tires it comes with. Has anyone out there upgraded, and if so, what kind of charge were you hit with?
Putting all the why's & why nots asside, you're stuck in the position of asking to have better tires put on. Consider this; When I needed to replace a blown out E rated GY Marathon tire I was quoted $109. I decided to upgrade instead to GY G614 G rated tires ($1320). These were $330 apiece! So, as you can see, if the prices of E's vs the G's are in the same price range & your "credit" for the now used E's, $1000 extra to get G's is worth it to me. I'm glad I upgraded.
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:33 PM   #18
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$1,000. would be cheap if they give you Goodyear G614s but not such a good deal if they give you some Chinese tires that you can but for $650.00 a set...
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:38 PM   #19
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Glad to say we upgraged, and got the G614's, G Rated. Upcharge after a credit was 1000.00. If they're safer than the E's that were on there, I'm good. FR should take it upon themselves, to show they care, since the rims they put on are suitable for G's, take the extra frickin' step, show you care, build the cost into the coach, and PUT THE FRICKIN' G RATED TIRES ON IT AS A STANDARD. Ok, I'm done.
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Old 05-14-2017, 09:37 PM   #20
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The quote they've given is only for four tires, not five. I could live with the spare being an E. I just find it a little steep, since we're essentially already paying for the tires the rig comes with.


I just returned from a trip with my 2015 3850 that had Goodyear Marathon nylon belt ( china bombs) on it. 11,000 total miles on RV and had 3 blowouts in a 300 mile span. ( Thank god for AAA) I wanted to buy the $1000.00 option for Goodyear G 614 steel belts when I bought the RV but let the factory rep talk me out of them. Now going to pay $1500.00 to have them installed. How can a company that sells a RV that list for over $100,00.00 put these junk tires on it??????
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