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Old 03-25-2017, 01:06 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein View Post
X2...X3...X4 on that.

It totally amazes me that RV manufacturers will put 4 big batteries, a generator, a 70 amp converter and a 2000 watt inverter into an RV and skip a $150 DC system monitor like a Trimetric or Victron. Why do they bother to put in a gas gauge? If you are filling up you are adding, if you are running you are using...that is really all the damn 4 LEDs show anybody. No modern RV should be without an SOC monitor.
Couldn't agree more, DC monitor critical
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:06 PM   #22
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Duracell golf cart battery

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    Originally Posted by itat View Post
    I'm no expert but I'd suggest that if you only do a single night, you could make a single 12v, Group 31 battery suffice. For a 4 day off grid stay, you should go with 2 6V batteries in series.
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Trojan Batteries are top rated. Deka batteries are also respected. Also look at VMAX batteries on Amazon.com. Even Costco 6V golf cart batteries are respectable.
Has anyone had any experience with this brand? Duracell 215 Ah for around $100. https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sligc110
As I recall the Trojans are much pricier.
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:13 PM   #23
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I agree with everyone in regards to using 6 Volt golf cart batteries.. A true deep cell battery.. IMO, Interstate batteries maybe good a few years back, but they are junk now.. My 2017 Rockwood came with Interstate batteries and they are now shot. won't hold a charge.. going to replace them with Trojans 6V and never look back !!
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:31 PM   #24
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I agree with everyone in regards to using 6 Volt golf cart batteries.. A true deep cell battery.. IMO, Interstate batteries maybe good a few years back, but they are junk now.. My 2017 Rockwood came with Interstate batteries and they are now shot. won't hold a charge.. going to replace them with Trojans 6V and never look back !!
I'll disagree with you on the quality of interstate batteries. You don't know what happened to the battery in your new rig before you got it.

We have about a hundred batteries across the farm, and Interstate out performs all the others. Period.

6v vs 12v in RVs is just a personal preference.
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:38 PM   #25
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There are some good replies here already but here's my .02...

There is very little, if anything, to dispute that Trojan and Deka are the best money can buy. The original post however specifically mentioned cost factor. Trojan and Deka are not the best value...not even close. There is no reason any true deep cycle battery from Costco/Sams Club/Walmart/Interstate/etc. would also not last 7-10 years when "properly taken care of". Proper use and maintenance is the key.

I also feel the "what if a 6v fails" argument is a weak one. When properly used and maintained, battery failures are incredibly rare. And as mentioned above, with 2 12volts in parallel, you are far less likely to realize you have a failure until both have been damaged anyway. I don't recall ever hearing of a case where someone discovered a failed 12v in a bank of multiples while camping, removed it from the system before the rest were drawn too low to be used, and resumed camping. You would almost certainly need to have the ability to recharge the remaining "good" battery in order to continue camping that trip.

As far as longevity goes, there is no difference between a pair 6v and a pair of 12v. The "problem" with 12v (and the reason many people mistakenly think 6v are better) is that 12v batteries are rarely true deep cycle. While (for the purposes of RV's) all 6v's are true deep cycle. For RV "house" batteries...true deep cycle is FAR better than anything else. "Dual purpose", "hybrid", "marine", etc. type batteries are not true deep cycle batteries.

These are my opinions and nothing more. FWIW, I chose to go with 2 Costco 6v's because they are true deep cycle, cost far less than comparable Trojan/Deka, are well backed, and were from a large volume seller (so they were fresh stock....mine were less than 3 weeks old when purchased). I also got a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that they were manufactured by Johnson Controls.

Happy, trouble free, camping to all!!
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:42 PM   #26
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The durability of Trojan 6v are incredible... which is why they are so popular among the RV crowd.

Golf carts bounce around a lot and their batteries get drained and charged daily for years. You can't ask for anything better.

I have a pair of T105s. If I got into boondocking, I would add more pairs.
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:51 PM   #27
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What are your thoughts on an Interstate (I know Johnson Controls) 31m-agm? DC only according to their 2017 catalog
I'm not a fan of Interstate deep cycle batts in general... though they make fine DP and starting batts (compared to competitive offerings of course). The sole exception to this would be their new MT7 AGM batteries including the Group 31 which is a Thin plate Pure Lead construction much like the acclaimed Odyssey / SearsDiehard Platinums... which are superior AGMs at rather high prices above conventional AGM's but worth it in terms of lifetime energy output and ability to deliver high current into big loads AND be charged at much higher rates than conventional lead acid AND AGM's. I don't know if that is the Interstate AGM you are talking about...because their previous AGM offerings were all conventional and not the equivilent of the Odyssey, Trojan or Deka deep cycle offerings in AGM.
The Firefly Foam based AGM is presently my pick for the best AGM on the market...but you have to own them for a long time to get the payback in extended performance.
The value of batteries is based on:
Total energy delivered over the battery lifetime.
Total costs saved during the charging process due to battery design.
Your life expectancy!
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Old 03-25-2017, 03:05 PM   #28
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I have 3 group 31 deep cycles on the trailer. Have 2 on the front tongue and one in a sealed vented battery box next to my inverter. Ended up putting battery within a foot of the inverter due to locations. I have a large power ground lead from my truck to trailer that provides charging while driving. So I also can use the 2 batteries on my truck. This connection was originally for a winch in the rear receiver and to charge my dump trailer between dumps while driving. Can go Friday night, all day Saturday, and Sunday till mid afternoon noon when we leave without worry about batteries. That includes heat all weekend if needed when dirt biking in the 40s.

I think there are many options. Just have to figure out what works best for you
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Old 03-25-2017, 05:10 PM   #29
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I would like to personally thank each and everyone one of you for such great information and feedback. I haven't made my decision, but have a much clearer direction with some great options. Thank you!!!
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Old 03-25-2017, 05:12 PM   #30
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I need a better battery, or bank of batteries. Torn between 1 12v deep cycle, 2 12v parallel, or 2 6v series. I want a deep cycle only battery. No dual purpose. What are some battery make/model suggestions? Price is a concern of course. Some info about my Aframe: 2015 A192HW. I currently have 1 12v dual purpose provided by dealer (cheap crap IMO). I installed 1 100w Renogy solar panel w/30amp controller wired directly to the battery. Wishlist: Mostly camp with shore power, but occasionally venture off grid. Spent 4 days in South Dakota off grid. 12v for 2 interior lights, minimum water pump usage, and small parasitics. Propane for fridge. My big wish is to be able to use the furnace set to 60 degrees at night.
Depends on what will fit on your battery rails. Most will hold two Group 24s in boxes. GC-2 6 VOLT GOLF CART BATTERIES are the same footprint but taller. You options are endless in that size. All the way from Costco Interstate's $84 208 amp to Trogan or interstate top of Lin gc2s at about $135 or go $300 ish for big AGMs. All would be true deep cycle. Better is directly related to cost. Good luck.
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Old 03-25-2017, 05:21 PM   #31
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2 *100 amp hr 12 or 6 volt batteries and 2 more 100 watt panels and you will get your wish for all but the rainiest trips.
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:47 PM   #32
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I have 12-volt Deka DEEP CYCLE batteries that are a little over four years and going strong. Trojan is also a good brand.
My problem with 6-volt batts is if you have two wired in series and one fails, you cannot run anything with the batteries.
A good point but not of much value. If one of your 12V batteries develops a shorted cell, the most like failure mode, it'll immediately discharge the second battery to the same voltage. If this happens when you're not in the rig, the second battery will most likely be ruined by the time you discover the problem.

6V golf cart batteries are not expensive, are true deep cycle batteries, and avoid any issues of equalizing the charge/discharge rates of two batteries hooked up in parallel. My 2011 Georgetown had most of the loads correctly attached to the two batteries but FR decided to use a secondary tap on the other battery for a couple of devices. If your batteries are in a hard to reach location, two 6V ones will also be less expensive for a remote, water refill system.

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Old 03-25-2017, 07:15 PM   #33
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Agree with the suggestion to go to 2 ea. 6-volt deep cycle batteries in series. That pair will give you more amp-hours of energy than two comparable 12-V batteries in parallel. We also always travel with a Honda 1000W Inverter/Generator in the event the sun does not shine. It happens. Also, we have dual 12-volt batteries in our tow vehicle, so we can use one to jump to the 12-volt system in our trailer in emergencies.
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Old 03-26-2017, 04:17 PM   #34
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Let's go back. OP has a HW A-frame. There is little space on the tongue for more than 2 GC-2 or size 24 batteries. The GC-2 are available for Sam's Club or Walmart for about $150-$160 for the pair, which gives 116AH usable (mine were 232AH 6V). Any other solution is going to cost nearly double.

Next part of the post is about 4 days dry camping. That was my spec for configuring my A-frame - being able to dry camp for 4 nights in Colorado mountains with temps as low as high 20s at night. That means I have a max of 29AH per 24 hours. How do I keep my usage at 29AH per 24 hours?

You have to conserve. On the HW A-frames, the fridge is similar to bigger TTs, and not like the small continuous run fridges in the standard height A-frames. That means it has a DC control board, and probably has a dehumidifying heater inside the fridge. That heater draws power unnecessarily, and you need to turn it off (may have to disconnect a wire on the control board to turn it off).

I figured I needed to limit my heater usage to 5 hours or less run time per night (4 amps with the fan running). This gives the heater 20AH per night. Parasitic draws and very limited use of lights will eat up most of the rest of the 29AH. My small A-frame will easily maintain 60 degrees inside on 30 degree nights with less than 50% run time. The HW is bigger, with more volume so will require more heat. You may have to settle for 55 or even 50 degrees inside to keep heater run time below 50%. I used to set the thermostat at 50 in my old PUP to keep the battery going, and it's not a terrible thing to do. Just crank up the heat for 30 minutes when the wife gets up and gets dressed (good for marriage). We use mattress toppers in the A-frame (for comfort), and are warm enough with a blanket or two. FWIW, I always leave the roof vent cracked a inch or two on even the coldest nights. The heat (and A/C) circulate better with the vent cracked, and it prevents condensation.

If you are looking at 40 or 50 degree nights, you don't have to worry as much.

Since the water tank is only 20 gallons, you are not going to use the water pump each day much without running out of water before 4 days are up. Outside lights on my 2014 A-frame were not LED, but inside lights were. I converted the amber outside door light, and the outside tongue light to LED, even though I rarely use them. I don't use the stereo, and put in a switch to truly turn it off. We have battery-powered reading lights if one of us wants to stay up and read - the regular lights are too bright for that.

Another part of making the batteries survive the 4 nights is arriving at the campsite with fully charged batteries. I plug in my A-frame at home a night or two before to pre-cool the fridge (on AC) and fully charge the batteries. I made some voltage checks at the A-frame batteries with the TV hooked up and the fridge running on DC. The batteries were actually getting a full 13.8 volts, dropping off to 13.2 volts, so charging from the TV is OK - will hold the existing charge state, but probably not improve it much.

The next step is turning the fridge off when I stop for more than a few minutes. The fridge draws 13 amps on DC, and will quickly draw the batteries down if there is no other source of power. I found this will often happen at a campground if there is a check-in line. When I arrive at the campsite, I turn the fridge off before disconnecting the TV. After setup, I start up the fridge on propane or AC.

We have never stayed more than 4 days at one place without hookups. At the end of 4 days we are running out of food, water, and battery - and it's time to move on.

Hope this helps
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:01 PM   #35
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Two other things I did to my A-frame:

I installed a digital voltmeter ($8 on amazon) to get an idea of how the batteries are doing when dry camping. Installed just inside the door below the stereo. I put in a rocker switch so it would not be another parasitic load.

I also replaced the stock WFCO converter. My WFCO would never drop into trickle mode, even when the batteries were fully charged. The replacement was a Progressive Dynamics 4135, which goes into all 3 battery charge modes correctly. The PD will stay in bulk mode a lot longer than the WFCO, enabling somewhat faster charging of the batteries when plugged in. Faster charging is not really that important the way we camp - but it is nice if we pull into a campsite with electric after several days or more of dry camping. If we come home and plug in after dry camping, the battery recharge time is of little matter.

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Old 03-26-2017, 08:10 PM   #36
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I'm not a fan of Interstate deep cycle batts in general... though they make fine DP and starting batts (compared to competitive offerings of course). The sole exception to this would be their new MT7 AGM batteries including the Group 31 which is a Thin plate Pure Lead construction much like the acclaimed Odyssey / SearsDiehard Platinums... which are superior AGMs at rather high prices above conventional AGM's but worth it in terms of lifetime energy output and ability to deliver high current into big loads AND be charged at much higher rates than conventional lead acid AND AGM's. I don't know if that is the Interstate AGM you are talking about...because their previous AGM offerings were all conventional and not the equivilent of the Odyssey, Trojan or Deka deep cycle offerings in AGM.
The Firefly Foam based AGM is presently my pick for the best AGM on the market...but you have to own them for a long time to get the payback in extended performance.
The value of batteries is based on:
Total energy delivered over the battery lifetime.
Total costs saved during the charging process due to battery design.
Your life expectancy!
I think everyone forgets that Interstate is not a battery builder. They are a marketing brand. Mine are Centennial. Also marketing brand. Their GC. 2 is made by US Battery, in a local SoCal USA factory. So far so good. PennDekka is a builder. I am told the T105 Trojan is made by Trojan, but possibly not in USA. Most if not all Interstate's are made by Johnson Controls as are alot of the chain store brands including, I understand most AutoZone and Sears DieHard. So I'd say research and make sure you buy from someone who will stand behind the product , in case you do have a bad one.

Do your research. And most of all Have Fun.
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Old 03-26-2017, 10:58 PM   #37
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Eleven nights of boondocking in my A-Frame

I've camped eleven straight nights of boondocking in my A-Frame. I use a single 200 amp-hour 12V AGM battery. It is a group 4D Sun Xtender PVX-2120L. No muss, no fuss with needing to keep checking and topping off wet cells.



No that battery won't fit on the stock battery tray on the tongue of the A-Frame. I built my own battery "chest" to house it. Plus that gave me some extra room on either side of the battery itself for a battery cutoff switch (protected from the elements) and extra storage for miscellaneous small items.



To keep the battery charged indefinitely, I installed 200 watts of solar panels and a solar charge controller. So after 11 nights, I still had a 100% charged battery.




Good luck with your decision.
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Old 03-26-2017, 11:03 PM   #38
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I've camped eleven straight nights of boondocking in my A-Frame. I use a single 200 amp-hour 12V AGM battery. It is a group 4D Sun Xtender PVX-2120L. No muss, no fuss with needing to keep checking and topping off wet cells.



No that battery won't fit on the stock battery tray on the tongue of the A-Frame. I built my own battery "chest" to house it. Plus that gave me some extra room on either side of the battery itself for a battery cutoff switch (protected from the elements) and extra storage for miscellaneous small items.



To keep the battery charged indefinitely, I installed 200 watts of solar panels and a solar charge controller. So after 11 nights, I still had a 100% charged battery.



Good luck with your decision.
Hey DanM, I remember your set up from a previous post. Also how lucky you were to come across that battery at a discounted rate. A question, were you able to use your furnace during your 11 day boondock?
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Old 03-26-2017, 11:35 PM   #39
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This was October at about 5400 feet elevation in Arizona. Temps were warm enough overnight, probably down only into the 40's, that the furnace wasn't really needed. Anyway, I've had nothing but trouble with my furnace/thermostat system. Had the system fixed, I thought, a couple of times, but it is still very unreliable. Sometimes it fires, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it will cycle on and off as it is supposed to for a while, but then it stops. Got a new thermostat, RV place bench-checked the furnace, I've replaced the regulator ... It's better than it was on that particular trip now, but still not right. Anyways, that's another story not for this thread.

But back to the thrust of your question, with 200 watts of solar in Arizona's sunshine, I have no doubt that the solar system would have been able to keep up with furnace demand in the A-Frame.

And by the way, when I found that deal on the battery, I actually ended up bringing home five of them!
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:17 PM   #40
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This was October at about 5400 feet elevation in Arizona. Temps were warm enough overnight, probably down only into the 40's, that the furnace wasn't really needed. Anyway, I've had nothing but trouble with my furnace/thermostat system. Had the system fixed, I thought, a couple of times, but it is still very unreliable. Sometimes it fires, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it will cycle on and off as it is supposed to for a while, but then it stops. Got a new thermostat, RV place bench-checked the furnace, I've replaced the regulator ... It's better than it was on that particular trip now, but still not right. Anyways, that's another story not for this thread.

But back to the thrust of your question, with 200 watts of solar in Arizona's sunshine, I have no doubt that the solar system would have been able to keep up with furnace demand in the A-Frame.

And by the way, when I found that deal on the battery, I actually ended up bringing home five of them!
Want to sell one of those batteries? Lol
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