Frozen A Frame-What to expect

[jerditto]

Ouch. We have an A102 which we love very much. So a month ago I did pull the drains and also drained the freshwater tank. then I had some travel for a month in Washington. By the time I returned, the temps here in Montana had dropped to near 0f and have been there a while. This morning I went out and took a look knowing I will have some damage. The water filter in the cabinet is frozen and broken, but what else should I consider? I am going to guess the water pump is toast. I am pretty sure the water heater was mostly empty as I opened the release valve on it while the drains were open (hope!). Unless we get some consistently warm temps for a while I will leave it frozen and deal in the spring. Any thoughts on what to look for in the spring?

[Kimber45]

leaks and running water

[jerditto]

Yep, figured that. Maybe I should have asked for other experiences and what they found.

[TheWolfPaq82]

I don't think opening the Relief valve is going to save the WH. Only way to drain them down completely is to pull the plug / Anode rod at the bottom of the tank.

[jerditto]

Good point. I mentioned that as, while I had the low point drains open I opened the relief valve and a ton more water came out of the low point drains. I assume and hope it broke the vacuum and partially drained the hw. I have a feeling I will have a bunch of work to do.

[TheWolfPaq82]

If enough air space was created inside WH, then any ice would have room to expand and the WH will be ok. The relief valve may have opened a vacuum that made the water lines drain faster. Hope the best for ya. I've seen piles of cracked WH's in the spring at the dealer close to me where I occasionally pick up some parts if needed.

Thought about firing up WH with Propane Only ? Don't use the electric side. That could thaw it out.

[jerditto]

Hadn't thought of that but thinking to wait till it's warmer any way. I am thinking cleaning up water leaks in freezing temps wouldn't be fun. Looks like we may get a little warmer temps in a week (hi around 40) and will try to thaw everything out then. I know I have to replace or bipass the water filter prior to adding any water. All the lines are pex and not too difficult to work with and the pump I think might not be too hard, but the hw with the gas line is a little scary. Thanks for the good ideas!

[pgandw]

The plumbing system is quite simple in the A-frames, especially the smaller and earlier models.

Start from the source and work downstream. But before you do, you have to fix known leaks.

The water filter can be temporarily (or permanently) replaced with a piece of 1/2" hose cut to length with the correct threaded end fittings. I did that when a box slid into the filter and cracked it while trailering. I did decide to put a new filter back in, and put a plywood bulkhead (similar to what is around the pump) to protect the filter from a repeat.

The water heater can be bypassed and isolated with the winterization valves.

Once you have cured the known leaks you can

• check the water tank isn't leaking, and has water in it
• turn on the pump and look for leaks
• un-bypass the water heater and see if it leaks
• if no leaks found and the pump works, turn off the pump, open the sink faucet or the outside shower faucets and drain off the pressure
• attach garden hose to the city water inlet, and test for leaks with city water
• turn off the city water, and relieve water pressure as above

You have now leak checked the entire system. All the water lines run on the starboard side (unless you have the cassette toilet with plumbed water feed), either inside the cabinets or occasionally below the floor.

The good news: If you pulled the low point drains and vented the plumbing with the low points open, chances are there is not enough water in the system to damage stuff - EXCEPT the water filter and possibly the water pump. In an A-frame the water line runs are short, and you only have 2 outlets - the sink and the outside shower. So there is a very good chance you got most of the water out the low point drains.

hope this helps
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[5picker]

Like Fred said, your system isn't tremendously complicated so other than the possibility of a cracked fitting (since you drained only and not blew out) and the already mentioned water filter, you may get away fairly unscathed.

Depending on your water heater make, opening the low point drains AND the relief valve may have saved that.

My recent photos of the cold water inlet diffuser tube in Suburban water heaters show they will siphon to within 1/8" of the bottom of the tank when the low point drains are open. That's the good news. Likely not enough water in there to harm anything even if you didn't pull the anode/drain plug.

The bad news is... you really should never drain your water heater that way. While it will drain water, it also sucks up calcium/debris from the bottom of the tank where some of it remains in the plumbing to be redistributed into the system where the debris then clogs faucet aerators and toilet valves.

Be sure to check any P-traps (if equipped) and the areas around the tank drains.

I hope you get some good weather and get everything tested and figured out in short order.

[Flybob]

Both inside and outside shower may be cracked as well as toilet valve.

[jerditto]

Jeez, thanks all for the great info! I'll hope for the best and plan for the worst. Correct that it is a simple system and I can handle it. Thanks again! Glad to have all the experienced folks weighing in.

[pgandw]

All but one model of A-frames only have one shower - the outside one. And one sink inside, physically located near the water pump. In A-frames, the low point drains are close to the water heater. So the problem from crud from draining the hot water tank getting into the rest of the system is pretty minimal. I have had issues with plastic shavings from when the fresh water tank was installed getting to the faucets. But I have never had crud from draining the hot water heater through the low point drains go anywhere else except out the low point drains.

I can see where this might be an issue in larger trailers.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[Bama Rambler]

The way the they are plumbed, provided you opened all the faucets and the T&P valve, you may not have much more damage than the filter housing. At least that's what I'm hoping for. however, if you didn't open the faucets, then I'd plan on having to replace those.

[jerditto]

Thanks and good point. I did open the sink faucet s but not the shower. Hopefully that saved them.

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by Flybob

Both inside and outside shower may be cracked as well as toilet valve.

Im going to guess that your lav and kitchen faucets will be fine. Your outside shower, with a pull out hose, probably did not drain so it will crack, as will your toilet valve

The shower faucet may be ok, but if you have a diverter and a flex hose to the shower head, possibly not unless you opened the faucet to let it drain back. Your WH may be OK.

In any event GOOD LUCK, I have been there myself. The Outside shower and toilet valve were what got me.

[bensinc]

On my 122BH my winterization is just to drain everything, remove the water filter, and blow some compressed air through via the city water hookup. This has worked great with the simple water system we have in these campers.

Two notes though:

I never use my hot water heater, so it's been bypassed since I bought the camper.

The only thing I've ever had break over the winter was the water strainer on the pump. I didn't even know that was there, but it will collect water and freeze. Just unscrew it before winter, and the part is cheap if you forget : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Check that last one if your pump doesn't work next year!

[dsmith14469]

My pump survived the one year i was late winterizing my A-frame, same situation, the water filter had burst.

[coosting]

Don't forget the drain traps if water filter froze they might have too!