Gas Springs Actuator DIY Primer

[OYO]

Originally Posted by superal

I would just like to remove the lift motor and install a lift assist
gas shock on the existing mounting brackets.
I removed the motor because its to slow.
Just a little tough to lift all by myself.
Any body have any ideas of a place that sells the gas shock
to fit existing mounting brackets?
Something like this picture I just need the correct size.

I don't think that's going to work. Gas springs use a ball and socket. The OEM is a bolt and nut design.

[superal]

I was thinking about something in this after market
or I could just bolt two struts together and secure them with a aluminum pipe
its 34 inches compressed down .. im not sure how much stroke I need yet. ill have to get the camper out and measure it.

[OYO]

Originally Posted by superal

I was thinking about something in this after market
or I could just bolt two struts together and secure them with a aluminum pipe
its 34 inches compressed down .. im not sure how much stroke I need yet. ill have to get the camper out and measure it.

I was not aware of the various end fittings. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Keep us posted please.

[LoonCall]

Would twin 40# shocks work better than twin 60# shocks?

[OYO]

Originally Posted by LoonCall

Would twin 40# shocks work better than twin 60# shocks?

It's hard to say. In general it would be easier to close, but harder to lift.

With the 60s you do have to pull down to close, but I'd probably go with the 60s.

[davidmrawlins]

Just wanted to chip in on a couple points with OYO.

1) Theoretically you could replace the actuator with a gas lift with the existing mounts, BUT I would be very very surprised if you could fine the right stroke length. Beyond that from my own experiences that is just flat out the wrong places for a single lift system. I had an issue with the back roof seal against the fuse holder on the front roof. (This is due to it pressing so hard against it)

Aside from that I've read of a few people having issues with buckling and I wouldn't be surprised if that started with lifting the weight of both sections from just one side. (The force imbalance would cause torsional stress that could be problematic over time) Even without the water issues I think that this why the actuator only is a flawed system in general.

2)

Originally Posted by LoonCall

Would twin 40# shocks work better than twin 60# shocks?

If you're going OYO's/backpacker3's mod and no actuator, then twin 60's are what I would go with.

However, when I did mine I noticed some (albeit minor) structural flexing in the front roof from the pivot point to the lift point.

To help correct this I put in a couple pieces of 1/8 x 1.5" angle aluminum in place to add support and help avoid flex. As you can see from the picture very close to the pivot point there some flex inward, but that seems to occur gas struts or no so that might be natural to the design.

I'll take a side shot here shortly to give a better idea of the exterior.

[TrailerTexan]

The buckling is my concern. I see some buckling on the door side of the top rail with the actuator on my A214HW. I'm afraid adding gas props on the rear panel and removing the actuator might make that worse unless the force is perfect. The pictures posted showing buckling describe using aluminum angle but I can't tell where it was added. Also, does this buckling cause any water leaking in?

[Ortep]

In my case YES. The top of the angle iron (aluminum), that the actuator is attached to, caulk seam broke open above the attachment point. The lifting and lowering movement, from a single point, with that amount of weight can only add up to a PROBLEM. I believe that the whole system/components/materials was under designed/engineered.

[OYO]

Originally Posted by TrailerTexan

The buckling is my concern. I see some buckling on the door side of the top rail with the actuator on my A214HW. I'm afraid adding gas props on the rear panel and removing the actuator might make that worse unless the force is perfect. The pictures posted showing buckling describe using aluminum angle but I can't tell where it was added. Also, does this buckling cause any water leaking in?

Texan, buckling on the door/starboard side confuses me. Where could that force/preasure be coming from?

And I concur with David. With the dual 60 pounders there is still some buckling on the port side, maybe 10% of what it was with the OEM actuator.

And I wholeheartedly agree with Ortep. The rail, the torsion springs and the actuator are way under engineered.

I didn't come up with the gas spring idea, but it sure seems to be the cheapest, easiest solution. Long term i have very few concens. We've had it up and down a lot without issue.

[TrailerTexan]

I think it is a twist from the actuator being on one side. The buckling is actually in the front panel between the door and the gas prop for the dormer on the A214HW. I think it imparts the twist through the rear panel and then pulls the front panel towards that side.

Part of the problem is the latch. It has to be tight on the door side so that the lock hasp will pass through the slot. The buckling is very slight when loosely latched and increases when the latch allows the lock hasp to pass through. I'm also thinking about relieving the slot to allow it to latch with less pressure.

When the top is latched down there is a wider gap on the actuator side between the rail and the trailer side. The door side is so close that it doesn't really pass on the outside of the door but barely comes into contact with it. Dealer says the top is in alignment but I really wonder about that. Is the alignment easy to adjust?

I'm considering putting gas props on the rear panel and removing the actuator because it is just too heavy to be safely raised without the actuator. At least for a short guy like me. Even with a handle I'm not comfortable raising the rear without some kind of assist yet I can easily lift the front panel with the dormer because of the gas props.

I'm thinking of using 40# props, one on each side but my concern is that the buckling might become worse. I'm hoping installing them may balance everything out. It opens and closes perfectly except for being a little close on the door side but as an engineer I don't like seeing things like the buckling.

I didn't notice it until after we completed a 6000 mile trip this summer. I think it is a minor issue but I don't want to make it into a problem.

[davidmrawlins]

Apologies, I took the picture but failed to post it. (Busy life/work)

Here's the exterior side shots of the section that was reinforced with the aluminum angle. I plan on painting them black right away but this gives a good idea of the mod.


I forgot that the 214HW already has gas shocks on the front. (Wish my 212HW had come with them factory like that! )

"The buckling is actually in the front panel between the door and the gas prop for the dormer on the A214HW. I think it imparts the twist through the rear panel and then pulls the front panel towards that side."

Actually, I don't think that any buckling on the front has anything to do with the rear panel. Regarding forces, they are isolated from each other for the most part.

I think what is occurring is that the slight buckling is from the same thing as my own. What happens is that you have a pivot point, (the hinge), and you're pushing against that with the springs 1/4 distance from the hinge.

Then when you close everything up, you're pulling (either with the bands initially or the latch eventually), at the maximum distance which is at the very end. The roof *should* be stiff enough to handle the force applied lower down without any buckling what so ever, but I think the material is just slightly thinner than they should have gone with.

Because of the dormer I don't think a piece of aluminum angle would necessarily work, however you could possibly use a piece of aluminum flat. You could either reinforce the whole front section or just half (like mine). (either way would be fine I think)

That said, as your lifts are factory installed I would touch base with the dealer fist to see if they can/will do anything about it for free.

Regarding your actuator, with those existing gas lifts on the front I don't think it's actually lifting that much.

You could swap out the actuator for dual gas lifts on the rear... but I would be concerned with the ability to pull the rear roof down to close it.

Likewise you could go stronger lifts on the front but be aware that that will increase the force and buckling concerns.

Regarding the pictures I submitted before, the top picture was the flexing on the front with a 60lb gas shock prior to being reinforced and the lower picture was after I added the aluminum.

[TrailerTexan]

I took the actuator off today (since the bottom bracket nut is broken and I'm waiting on the new one from FR). I unlatched the top and looked at it with the actuator on and off. There is definitely a twist that occurs with the actuator attached that affects both the front and rear panels. The buckling of the front panel is mostly gone with the actuator off and worse with it on. The roof sits about a 1/4 inch lower without the actuator so I think the actuator may be "too long" in the down position and pushing up on the rear panel causing the twist. I suspect the mounts are not in the right place for the length of the actuator, i.e. off by about a 1/4 inch.

In any case I'm thinking of the gas prop mod instead for the long term and that may fix it.

[OYO]

So it's been about 18 months since I moded to Gas Springs, thought I'd give an update and a video (my very first).

We average about 80 nights a year camping so it's been up and down alot. And I'm happy to say there has been zero issues. In the initial post I talked about 40 lbs or 60 lbs. I'm completely happy with the 60s.

And it's easy. I'm mid 60s and not a big guy.

https://youtu.be/JNZ7bqO7Opk

[lcangler]

When our actuator fails, we are totally doing this.

[pgandw]

Since replacing the worthless mismatched OEM 40# roof struts with 60# struts and reinforcing the lower port mount, I now have the buckling very similar to David Rawlins's pictures.

I have not removed the actuator - have had very cold weather and lots of snow since the installation at the end of December. But there is a lot less force needed from the actuator since replacing the gas struts when we took a weekend trip in January.

Hoping to get the unit out and do some more experimentation with some warmer weather in March.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW (A213HW) A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[LoonCall]

"On the port side there was nothing solid to fasten to so i made a block to solidify it (Photo 3)".



OYO, what did you find on the starboard wall that you did not need to solidify with a block?

[OYO]

Originally Posted by LoonCall

"On the port side there was nothing solid to fasten to so i made a block to solidify it (Photo 3)".



OYO, what did you find on the starboard wall that you did not need to solidify with a block?

The 2x2 for the toilet cabinet frame.

[davidmrawlins]

Mine is the 212HW - no bathroom there, just bench seating. I may replace those blocks with some Aluminum plate/machine thread screws to lower the profile, but it's no big deal either way. Even as they are right now you can't feel them when sitting. (they are only just above the base cushions you sit on)

[pgandw]

My 2019 213HW came with 30# struts. Brackets were just screwed into sidewall. When I mounted 60# struts I through bolted the brackets using #10 machine screws.

Port side I added a 5" round 1/4" thick plywood as a backing plate with washers and acorn nuts. Dinette seat back hides this.

Starboard side hit the piano hinge for the toilet cover. That became my backing plate.

Fred W

[LoonCall]

My 2018 Flagstaff T21TBHWSE has full dinette on both port and starboard side. Since the port side has no internal reinforcing in that area, I first used a small oak block (similar to OYO's design. I felt it might be better to distribute stress over a larger area, so I used a larger 1/2" plywood and #10 SS machine screws. The starboard side seemed to have some internal structural metal reinforcement, but I used the same plywood backing. Works great. Thanks to those pioneers who engineered this solution.