Propane alarm

DobeFanatic · 11-02-2015, 09:11 AM

Haven't used propane for over a week, Saturday a week ago and home on Monday, since then it went off on Wednesday, checked battery, inline fuse, reset and it was fine until midnight last night after closed up of course, disconnected battery to shut it up. Battery looks fine. Both tanks are off. What's going on?

GL1800Rider · 11-02-2015, 09:16 AM

This happened to me with our TT. Is it going off while on shore power or battery? Our battery was bad and it would beep whenever we disconnected from shore power more than a couple of hours. As soon as shore power was hooked up it would stop.

Another possibility, our old Terry would alarm when the bowl of dog food was set near it.

DobeFanatic · 11-02-2015, 09:18 AM

It was on battery both times. I will check battery status further then since water looked good and all lights looked good.

DobeFanatic · 11-02-2015, 10:07 AM

The battery test good, all panel fuses are good, as well as in line battery fuse. Checking further, hooked up to battery again, green flashing, reset keeps it flashing so far. It is the CO alarm, not propane. Only other issue I see when seat removed is a collection of white dust, the insect powder I had used within the camper two years ago, but did not put in that cabinet area/now in there. I will vacuum once I see if alarm goes off again. Honestly, what next !

pgandw · 11-02-2015, 05:54 PM

CO alarms have a limited life. I believe the combination CO/propane alarm Forest River uses have a 5 year rated life (CO detection element), and there are numerous reports of not getting that far. And you have no way of knowing when the 5 years actually began. Unfortunately, there is no way to check or test the CO detection element itself. Most alarms will do some kind of sound at end of detector life (based on time). You can buy a household CO alarm with a readout and see how it does next to the FR alarm. There are several other threads on this issue in the forum.

When I mistakenly thought my CO/propane alarm was chirping, I finally cut the wires in an effort to shut it up (was actually a dying battery in the smoke alarm). When I went to re-wire, I was disgusted with the poor quality connections I saw behind the converter panel. I was surprised some of those connections worked at all. Just a thought.

Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 a-frame

DobeFanatic · 11-02-2015, 06:29 PM

Noticed pamphlet says 5 year life, but I am thinking the boric acid powder used for ants couple years ago in the living area was the problem. I just returned from a Florida to Lake Erie/Cleveland area trip on I-77. Didn't think there were that many bumps, but my stove top came loose, knobs disappeared for awhile, microwave door bottom hinge unhooked, and the powder was found inside the cabinet for fuses, heater etc. So, I vacuumed this afternoon, will leave it on battery in DW overnight as light is steady green now and see what happens. It woke me at midnight last night closed up, had to disc battery so I could sleep.

DobeFanatic · 11-03-2015, 04:02 PM

Seemed to resolve the CO alarm once I vacuumed up the under seat cabinet to remove the boric acid powder. From the looks of items in the camper after 1200 miles, things got moved around quite a bit and so did that powder though it hasn't happened till now over 2 yrs since I put in the edge of flooring... go figure?

DobeFanatic · 11-04-2015, 09:49 AM

Well the vacuum fix for the CO detector failed, alarmed at 10 pm last night over 24 hrs since it was vacuumed and reset. I am so over this. Have to pull it out to driveway again to access. I will now try blowing air over the front/back of detector. It is only happening when on battery alone, closed up fully or with windows closed in sunny driveway, flashes green, 4 beeps, then steady alarm, so definitely CO alarm. Battery tests in good range, but may have to take it to Auto parts store to fully check it out. Can this unit operate if I disable the CO/Pro detector? Anyone with other ideas?

pgandw · 11-04-2015, 12:27 PM

Yes, camper operates just fine without the propane/CO alarm. If you disconnect the propane/CO alarm (I cut the wires), you will lose the following:

- detection of a propane leak near the detector. Propane is equipped with an odor agent. A reasonably sensitive nose can detect a propane leak about the same time the detector will trip. In our case, an outside propane leak (where the regulator hose connected to the under-camper pipe) was detected by smell, but the inside alarm never tripped.

- detection of carbon monoxide buildup. This is probably the most serious because CO has no odor or color and is deadly when concentrations get too high. All gas burners (fridge, heater, stove, water heater) produce CO. In the days before CO detectors, standard practice was to keep the roof hatch at least partially open and a window or door cracked to provide ventilation to the interior. We rarely use the inside stove, and all the other gas appliances are supposedly vented to the outside so the CO risk is fairly low. Or you can buy battery powered household CO detectors at Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Detector height doesn't matter for CO; CO mixes very easily with the surrounding air. Put it in the camper for now, and in your house when you fix/replace the existing detector.

- low battery voltage alarm. The good news is that you have reduced the parasitic draws on your battery (about 6-12 AH per day) by disconnecting the combination alarm. The bad news is that you will have to monitor your battery some other way.

Fred W
now: 2014 Rockwood A122 a-frame
then: 2000 Coleman Westlake PUP
1986 Coachmen PUP
various rental PUPs

DobeFanatic · 11-04-2015, 12:36 PM

I am at the point where I am willing to lose those capabilities. This will be the second time I have had to pull out a closed camper to reset, inspect this detector. I thought I read somewhere that it controlled/stopped propane flow, but apparently not that sophisticated, good ! I assume you blindly reached below the fuse panel to find the right wires to cut since the view is blocked?
I have 30 amp service in the carport so plan to put camper on it 1 week of each month, monitor battery water then.

pgandw · 11-04-2015, 12:54 PM

On the A122, the alarm and the converter (and the furnace and the hot water heater) are mounted into the driver's side dinette base. I had to unscrew the driver's side dinette seat to access the back of the converter and the alarm wiring.

Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 a-frame

DobeFanatic · 11-04-2015, 01:01 PM

Mine is the same setup. Alarm set is installed directly below the converter, tangle of wiring just above all this. So won't be able to actually see the alarm set up before cutting. So should I just feel for the alarm wires/two? leading to the back of the converter?

pgandw · 11-04-2015, 03:16 PM

On my A122, the alarm is above the converter. So I removed the seat top, reached in, and cut the red wire to the alarm where it entered a crimped wire nut. This did not shut the chirping off, so I cut the other wire and removed the alarm out of the camper, thinking it must have an internal battery backup. The alarm wires do not go directly to any panel - they are wire nutted to other wires in the rat's nest.

The actual cause of the chirping was the smoke alarm on the ceiling right above me - the smoke alarm 9V battery was dead. Chalk up another SPUT (stupid pop-up trick) for me.

Forest River uses crimped wire nuts instead of screw-on wire nuts for their wire connections - at least in the A-frames. So you have to cut the wire instead of unscrewing the connection. There is no rhyme or reason to the wire colors in the rat's nest behind the converter. So I would mark what the alarm wires connect to before you cut. Don't ask how I learned this! I would also make sure you do this visually rather than just by feel. Yes, you will have pull the rat's nest apart (very gently, some of those crimps were not done well) to get a visual on the alarm wires.

Going to reinstall the alarm, I spent almost an hour examining every wire nut in the maze to find the 2 wire nuts that had very short red and black tails still connected. Then I had to cut and reconnect all the wires in each of the 2 wire nuts.

One of these days......I'm going to get serious and replace that rat's nest with a set of labeled bus bars and real screw and lug connections.....one of these days.

Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 a-frame
still disgusted with the wiring workmanship

DobeFanatic · 11-05-2015, 08:16 PM

Thanks Fred, my son checked the battery today to verify, it is very good. He promises when he has time in a few weeks to sort out the wiring harness and remove the CO detector/unnecessary baggage in my opinion. Thanks for the insight into the mess!

kdot · 11-06-2015, 08:26 AM

Dobefanatic, I wonder if there is anything on RVs that create more irritation than those alarms. I had an experience similar to your's, not on my present A-frame, but on a prior Forest River trailer. The alarm just refused to quit, no matter what I did. When I found out that a low battery would set it off, I spent all kinds of time fooling around with that only to discover when I put a volt meter on the battery that there was nothing wrong with it. I finally took the alarm out and brought it to the dealer. He took one look at it, and sent a technician out to check the battery on the trailer. I guess he thought I didn't know how to check a battery's voltage.

He finally admitted that the alarm was no d____d good and gave me a new one. I installed it in the trailer and end of problem.

kdot

DobeFanatic · 11-06-2015, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdot

Dobefanatic, I wonder if there is anything on RVs that create more irritation than those alarms. I had an experience similar to your's, not on my present A-frame, but on a prior Forest River trailer. The alarm just refused to quit, no matter what I did. When I found out that a low battery would set it off, I spent all kinds of time fooling around with that only to discover when I put a volt meter on the battery that there was nothing wrong with it. I finally took the alarm out and brought it to the dealer. He took one look at it, and sent a technician out to check the battery on the trailer. I guess he thought I didn't know how to check a battery's voltage.

He finally admitted that the alarm was no d____d good and gave me a new one. I installed it in the trailer and end of problem.

kdot

Yeah kdot, I really have had enough of this. Came back from a great trip Florida to Ohio, camped in SC, enjoyed the Fall leaves through the Virginia's and can't seem to get away from servicing this camper.It sat with only battery power for a week in OH with no issues, now at how again, nothing but trouble. I put it on shore power 24 hrs ago and no alarms so far. Now back to battery for few days, guessing the alarm will sound again. Can't wait to get it OUT ! The cost to replace it is ridiculous. Will put in a portable CO alarm and smell for propane as needed. Bad work from Forest River: my stove top came loose several times, microwave door hanging on arrival- still works, go figure!

kdot · 11-06-2015, 10:49 AM

Yeah, Dobefanatic, after going through this process myself, I feel your frustration. As I recall, however, since my RV was on warranty, I never paid for the replacement alarm, and I took it out and put the replacement in myself. Wasn't that hard to do. Just cut the two (as I recall) wires in the back of the alarm, then stripped and attached them to the wires from the replacement alarm. As I recall, all it took was a couple of wire nuts to make the connection.
The other PIA alarm in the trailer, the smoke alarm, is another source of constant problems. I swear that if you pass gas in the wrong direction in the trailer, it will alarm. I shut it off by pulling the battery out, then discovered you can't snap the cover back down without the battery in it. It's a fiendish plot. I put the cover down as far as it would go, then taped the d___d thing to the ceiling.

kdot

DobeFanatic · 11-08-2015, 11:01 PM

Well to finish this issue: son checked and battery was fine Thursday morn, so put on shore power anyway overnight. Friday I stopped shore power, battery working fine, waiting for alarm to finally sound. Sunday night and no further alarms... now I'm really wondering what this was all about ! No doubt it will trip me up again when I least expect it!
EDIT It is now 11:21 pm and the alarm went off !!! First time since Friday morn.
Disgusting, got to be defective, time to remove it permanently as planned.

JLeising · 11-08-2015, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DobeFanatic

The cost to replace it is ridiculous. Will put in a portable CO alarm and smell for propane as needed. Bad work from Forest River: my stove top came loose several times, microwave door hanging on arrival- still works, go figure!

If you install a separate CO detector, the replacement propane only (without CO detection) unit is about $50 from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/MTI-Industries...opane+detector

DobeFanatic · 11-08-2015, 11:31 PM

Thanks, that's good to know:
If you install a separate CO detector, the replacement propane only (without CO detection) unit is about $50 from Amazon:

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