Reasonable pricing

[jswinner]

Been looking at the either the A122 or BH model. In researching, available pricing is all over the place, and my local dealers all seem to have them no less than list price Is it reasonable to expect these units to sell for 20-25% below MSRP?

[bikendan]

it would help if you posted what region of the country you are in.
RV prices vary by region, since the vast majority of RV's are built in the Midwest.

[Jeep4Two]

Profile says Portland, Oregon.


I'd expect slightly less negotiating room out west but surely 3-4k under list would Rae reasonable.

[handbuilder]

Any RV dealer is going to want as much as they can get. Have you actually attempting negotiating a deal or have you just or stopped by for a "look see" price? Unless they think you are serious, they probably wont give a reduced price at the get go - especially at the start of the camping season. I live in eastern Washington & checked prices with dealers from southern Oregon to western Wa to Boise ID and even Montana. After much research and consideration - I knew what the most I would spend would be & I determined to see it happen with the dealers who seemed more workable. I began with my offer 40% less MSRP and settled with 27% less. I didnt care how insulting it sounded. I figured someone would work with me. Salesmen play the game - I was buying a product, not a service.

I advise you to check eastern WA or ID. Just a heads up - a difference in cost of west coast compared to mid-west or east coast purchase is FREIGHT. Some dealers in the west pay less freight than their competitors if they are moving/turning factory inventory and may make up for the reduced sale cost because they saved it on freight and pass savings along to the buyer. Likewise maybe a dealership is slow and salesman willing to take less on their comission to boost their monthly sales total or because they need to pay their bills. It takes time and all emotion in wanting the RV must be removed. Its a business deal, not anything more. Its your money and you woll have to pay the bill - not the salesman who is trying to shame you for low balling. You can always negotiate up from your low offer....after they call you back with a counter offer. Have fun with it...the salesman counts on the buyer being uncomfortable with conflict....and swoops in for the close. LOL

[rawlus]

A camping show price can often be pretty good - they lugged it there and they don't want to lug it back.

The only way to pay as little as you can is to be prepared to not make a deal, to just walk away and not get what you want after all.

The salesman knows you're there for a reason, so it's a bit of a test of wills on who is ready to walk away first. A dealership with good turnover and volume is going to plan to make something off the sale, they're not a charity giving away product for nothing. So you have to do your research. Around here, the dealerships are far enough apart that if you have your mind set one particular make and model already, they know that and they know there's only a few around competing for your business.

You can choose to not care about insulting them, myself I don't think that's good business. You will likely need the dealership for warranty service and repair at least for the short term. A good deal is one that's good and fair for both of you, that would be my ideal situation. A 40-50% off deal I would not expect from any dealer but the mot desperate or one essentially going out of business. Not a problem if it happens, just be aware of that though, you're not their valued customer because you represent no value.

Also, you're not the only one interested in that rv, and in most cases, if you don't buy it, someone else will. So your own level of interest competes with general demand and that can affect cost. I'm not making a deal where I get nothing if I can make the deal tomorrow and get something.

Ultimately, it's not a black and white equation, every buyers situation is unique.

[Herk7769]

How I would do it:

Start your negotiation at 60% OF LIST and make them justify any increases.

NEVER start at THEIR number and work down.
You are at a severe disadvantage if you play their game.

There is a 50% markup in RVs. You should expect to close around 30% off list; if not look elsewhere.

Use the online folks to your advantage (heck you may find buying from an online store like RV Wholesalers or RV Direct to be just the thing.) WORST case is you threaten your local guy with an RV Wholesaler's quote.

Working on a camper ON THE LOT is actually worse for you.

1) It is there and you are in love. Your mind is on camping and NOT on business (like getting the best price).

2) It is there, and you expect that you should get a better price "just because." You won't - see above.

3) Car salesmen (and RV guys) know that a test drive is 1/2 the way to ownership. You begin to picture yourself IN THE CAR. The salesman's job just got a LOT easier.

Spend some time HERE - http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...r-22447-2.html

READ THIS TOO: http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/co...-salesman.html

My 2010 Flagstaff from a LOCAL dealer:

List - $41, 821.69

ACTUAL selling price after 2 weeks of dickering on an "ordered" unit:
$27, 881.13 plus tax and tags (dealer prep (PDI) included).

[bodzcampers]

Dang Herk! You win. You sure did get a good deal. Holy Mackerel!
I'm logging your advice and link for future reference.

[Herk7769]

One other thing.

If you have already started negotiating on a camper, you are kinda screwed. The salesman has already "booked" what his commission will be and will be a tough nut to crack.

Find another dealer in the area to bang him against. While there were no Flagstaff dealers around (I was at a disadvantage because I liked the name - Air Force and all) I had no problem using an RV wholesalers quote and a ROCKWOOD dealer 35 miles away who could order the exact same camper (with different decals and interior colors).

Buying a vehicle (car truck or camper) is an ART not a science. It is a dance that many are not suited for. (Remember Saturn's "No Haggle Pricing" and "Mean People Suck" bumper stickers. They made money selling retail and once folks figured out it was a marketing scam they went broke.)

In the end, paying what you think is "fair" for what you want is all that matters. UNLESS getting the best possible deal is all that matters to you! (and it should).

Herk

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by bodzcampers

Dang Herk! You win. You sure did get a good deal. Holy Mackerel!
I'm logging your advice and link for future reference.

Don't even want to talk about the deal I got on the "ordered" truck.
(over a thousand under invoice). Final selling price was "invoice less incentives at delivery" which turned out to be $1250 dollars.

MSRP with options - $45,400

Out the door - $39,889.25 (invoice) - $1250.00 (incentives) =
$38,639.25 plus tax and tags.

[jswinner]

All-right, good stuff here, thanks for all of the tips.

[Herk7769]

One more thing.

You would think that my salesman at my local dealership would hate me.
He does not. I have bought 4 cars and my truck from him.

1) He knows that when I walk in the door, I am ready to buy.
No "Lookie Lou" here! (Unless it is my DW's car; then I require her to test drive one just like the one we are looking at).

2) I know what I want - all options selected before hand and I know the invoice price on every one. I carry the print out from Edmunds when I walk in the door.

3) He knows what I will pay. Invoice less incentives at time of delivery.

4) I ALWAYS ask him "When is the best time for me to close for you; what are you shooting for to win?" - He is almost always in competition with other salesmen at his dealership for prizes for the most gross sales. I am never in a hurry to buy; so waiting till the end of the month or quarter is no problem. My sale could be the one he needs to win a cruise or something.

5) I send him business. I always tell folks I send to him to mention I sent them. I get 50 bucks for every sale he closes; that I recommended.

6) I stop by occasionally for coffee and to ask what is "new" in the truck pipeline. I always tell him "up front" that I am not shopping, so he does not get out of the "UP" rotation.

Like I said; it is a dance and I want to "lead."

[handbuilder]

Rawlus - Let me clarify - most salesmen expect to play on buyer emotion to close the sale. They will act hurt/shocked/surprised/offended/reluctant to take your low offer past their table. A savvy buyer knows this is part of the game/art/dance to sales negotitations. In the case of an RV through an sales employee - a buyer is negotiating on a PRODUCT. There is no "offending" him/her for worry of SERVICE needs once the sales deal is closed. Service needs will be attended to by a service tech, not a salesperson.

Service needs are different - I sure as heck wouldnt try to negotitate service related needs in the same manner as buying a product as I am buying that person's skill/experience/knowledge to repair a vehicle, fix my house or diagnose my health needs.

Have attended many sales seminars over the years - one in particular stands out as it was presented by a popular speaker & sold out. Believe it or not - sales are an art & a skill in negotiating conflict. Anyway this particular seminar was with a mixed bag of sales specialists ranging from vehicle, retail & supply, healthcare and funeral. Can you guess who led the numbers for closing sales with the highest number? The funeral industry - they candidly talked about how emotion played a huge role in successful sales. That was an eye opening moment for me. They present concern and caring yet manage to upsell and make it appear they were giving deals to grieving family. This was amazing - there were 4 different funeral businesses there and they all agreed on emotional aspect of sale. They sell service and product but people think it is one and the same but they agreed it wasnt.

My point being, once a buyer understands a saleperson (selling the product) is not the service person, its easier to do the dance without the emotional baggage of being shamed to feel cheap for asking for a better price.

Herk shared some excellent thought to this topic!!

[Herk7769]

The "Death Business" is the absolute WORST for horrible scum sucking salesman.
There are more scams being run at Funeral homes...

"You're (fill in the blank) would WANT all his friends there. The perpetual music playing in the coffin will ease his spirit into the next life! What drivel."

The only folks who would come to my funeral would be there just to make SURE I was dead.

I want a Funeral Pyre like the Vikings! (Oh, and the DW, all my servants, and possessions up there with me. The kids get nothing! You hear me NOTHING!)



Just kidding.... I think....

[handbuilder]

I agree Lou. It jist happened that a short time after that 2 day seminar, my grandfather passed away. My mom is the oldest of 11. She was in charge of the funeral arrangments. I insisted on going with her to the meeting and prepared to negoitate. They wanted to sell white gloves for the pall bearers, exotic wood coffin and coffin features, flowers, blah blah...from their inital presentation, we shaved off 10k irregardless of the raised eyebrow look I received from salesperson. They even started an argument amongst siblings with the statement "you DO want the best for your loved one, dont you" grrr....I asked to speak to the sales rep alone and firmly told him to knock it off, play the game with another family - not mine. Boy was he different when he returned to the room with my Mom and her bros and sisters.

[Herk7769]

And while I was off line (It IS Mother's Day - here in the US of A) I forgot the other "tid bit."

Don't think for a minute that when the salesman "takes your offer to the boss" that you have privacy at the table. Those phones are HOT and everything you say to your DW or DH is being listened to in the "back room."

If you want to fine tune your strategy, "Take it outside for a smoke" even if you don't smoke. Inside it should be "All Business." Your job here is to cut out the other bloke's heart and eat it or you are in the wrong frame of mind to be shopping for a car/truck/camper.

[OldCoot]

My DW won't even go with me when we are going to buy a 'big ticket' item when it comes to haggling price. She will pick out what she wants and leave.

[rawlus]

Originally Posted by handbuilder

Rawlus - Let me clarify - most salesmen expect to play on buyer emotion to close the sale. They will act hurt/shocked/surprised/offended/reluctant to take your low offer past their table. A savvy buyer knows this is part of the game/art/dance to sales negotitations. In the case of an RV through an sales employee - a buyer is negotiating on a PRODUCT. There is no "offending" him/her for worry of SERVICE needs once the sales deal is closed. Service needs will be attended to by a service tech, not a salesperson.

Service needs are different - I sure as heck wouldnt try to negotitate service related needs in the same manner as buying a product as I am buying that person's skill/experience/knowledge to repair a vehicle, fix my house or diagnose my health needs.

Have attended many sales seminars over the years - one in particular stands out as it was presented by a popular speaker & sold out. Believe it or not - sales are an art & a skill in negotiating conflict. Anyway this particular seminar was with a mixed bag of sales specialists ranging from vehicle, retail & supply, healthcare and funeral. Can you guess who led the numbers for closing sales with the highest number? The funeral industry - they candidly talked about how emotion played a huge role in successful sales. That was an eye opening moment for me. They present concern and caring yet manage to upsell and make it appear they were giving deals to grieving family. This was amazing - there were 4 different funeral businesses there and they all agreed on emotional aspect of sale. They sell service and product but people think it is one and the same but they agreed it wasnt.

My point being, once a buyer understands a saleperson (selling the product) is not the service person, its easier to do the dance without the emotional baggage of being shamed to feel cheap for asking for a better price.

Herk shared some excellent thought to this topic!!

I don't disagree with anything you or Herk have shared.
My point was it all comes down to you and the dealer and how badly you want what you're buying. I don't want anyone to get the impression that any deal is possible because its not. When it becomes a bad deal for one side or the other then the deal is over. And while some may have luck getting their thing at 50% off MSRP tht does not mean anyone/everyone will. Because that won't happen either. If anything, sales at far higher prices are required in order for some to negotiate the super low deals... Margin has to be made up somewhere.

I also realize the salesperson is not the service person, that does not mean your relationship with one won't influence the other. Is a variable, they are all variables. Product demand is another one. There's no silver bullet to this. Some, like yourselves it seems, are very talented, emotionally detached enough and pragmatic enough to negotiate the best possible deal. Not all buyers will have that is all I'm saying. And if they did, then the business model would have to change because the sole purpose of a business is to make money.

[Oaklevel]

My wife hates to go car shopping with me ....... she will always tells be to be nice & I always tell her if they play fair I will........
Years ago I knew exactly what a Ford Dealer paid for a used car I offered them a fair profit for their owning it for a few days. After the dance I was told take their price period ($1K more than mine (This was in 1977) ) I told them what I would do $... then I was told to leave their dealership which I did & never went back.
I am kind of mean to the gypsy car salespeople. they are fun......


As far as the camper goes I have an unusual dealer they add a percent to their price & that's the price ........ Ours (13 last spring) was ordered the MSRP was 41K+ & I was out the door with the $1200 shipping included for 29K + taxes & tags no extra charges... their labor rate is $65 & they employ 3 people (total). Their building is an old VW dealership from the 1960s & 70s..... Low overhead................. They have a hard time keeping many campers on the lot.................

[prof_fate]

Originally Posted by rawlus

A camping show price can often be pretty good - they lugged it there and they don't want to lug it back.

So you'd take a camper right from a show? Dirty, no final walkthru, no PDI? You'd better get one heck of deal for the risk you're taking.

We bought ours at a show - but still went to the dealership to pick it up, have it set up and checked and ready.

[MishaFoomin]

Wow, Herk! Can people hire you to negotiate sales for them? I could have used you in March.