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Old 09-28-2016, 10:14 PM   #1
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Refrigerator does not get cold.

I haven't been able to find a thread on this version of poor fridge performance but I'm hoping someone's already solved this problem and can offer some suggestions.

Our refrigerator is a Dometic model RM4223. Up until this weekend, the only issue has been learning which settings provided the least freezing and the best cooling for each power source. However, on our latest trip, we had the unfortunate experience of sour milk and melted butter etc.

As usual, we had chilled it down using shore power (120VAC) for at least one night before leaving. We loaded it up lightly as most meals this trip were not prepared in the camper, and ran it on 12VDC over the 400 mile drive to our campsite. When we arrived at the RV park, I switched to propane. Then at breakfast time we found the box to be rather warm and some food spoiled. This despite the fact that the flame was lit and the "chimney" was hot. So I switched back to 120VAC, but it only cooled slightly. Going home running 12VDC did not provide much cooling at all.

Today, I bought a refrigerator thermometer, placed it in the fridge and connected to 120VAC. I set the temp dial on '7' (usually we use '5'). After 8 hrs, the temperature inside was about 70 degrees. The "chimney" was hot.

To sum up, it seems that performance is poor regardless of power source.

Anyone had a similar experience? Ideas to restore proper operation?
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Old 09-29-2016, 07:57 AM   #2
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Do you see any deposits in the back of the unit?
Do you smell any odd odors (ammonia) near the back of the unit?

If neither of those you may wan to try cleaning the flue tube and baffle. I'm not sure that'll solve your problem, but it's worth a try.
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Old 09-29-2016, 10:28 AM   #3
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I have had similar issues. What was the outside temperature? Few weekends ago I put a container of ice in the freezer and stayed frozen all weekend running on shore power. However, when I went to the coast running on propane the fridge was not cool at all. My butter was mushy. However, I didn't run the a/c in the camper during the day and had the fridge run off propane during the day. At night I would run the a/c and fridge on the generator. The temp was in the high 90's and heat index around 106. For me I really think the inside and outside temperature made a major difference.
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:34 PM   #4
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I had the same problem the second time out. I found that I didn't have the frig level enough to use propane properly.

I leveled the camper using my level on the floor of the camper. The frig in my camper though isn't level exactly to the floor. When I put the level on the frame of the frig it was actually out quite a bit.

I now level the camper by placing the level on the frame of the frig in both directions and haven't had a problem since.
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Old 09-29-2016, 01:20 PM   #5
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Get your Fridge in for service

Sounds like you have a real problem with your fridge. It should easily maintain a cold temperature especially after 24 hours on 120V. One of our friends discovered their fridge wasn't maintaining proper temperature and discovered is was not installed correctly at the factory. They had to work with Dometic to identify the issue. The insulation was missing and it was installed improperly. Forest River paid to have a new Fridge installed correctly. The install was overseen by Dometic technician. The new fridge works great.
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Old 09-29-2016, 02:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mherte View Post
I haven't been able to find a thread on this version of poor fridge performance but I'm hoping someone's already solved this problem and can offer some suggestions.

Our refrigerator is a Dometic model RM4223. Up until this weekend, the only issue has been learning which settings provided the least freezing and the best cooling for each power source. However, on our latest trip, we had the unfortunate experience of sour milk and melted butter etc.

As usual, we had chilled it down using shore power (120VAC) for at least one night before leaving. We loaded it up lightly as most meals this trip were not prepared in the camper, and ran it on 12VDC over the 400 mile drive to our campsite. When we arrived at the RV park, I switched to propane. Then at breakfast time we found the box to be rather warm and some food spoiled. This despite the fact that the flame was lit and the "chimney" was hot. So I switched back to 120VAC, but it only cooled slightly. Going home running 12VDC did not provide much cooling at all.

Today, I bought a refrigerator thermometer, placed it in the fridge and connected to 120VAC. I set the temp dial on '7' (usually we use '5'). After 8 hrs, the temperature inside was about 70 degrees. The "chimney" was hot.

To sum up, it seems that performance is poor regardless of power source.

Anyone had a similar experience? Ideas to restore proper operation?

Should the "chimney" be hot when running on 120VAC? Sounds to me like its not switching over properly.

Also, when you plugged it in the night before, was the trailer level? If not, you may have created an "ammonia clog" in one of the bends of the lines. If the ammonia tries to circulate for a long period of time and can't, it will build up and become permanent. Sometimes if you shut fridge down for a few days and try again (after leveling as mentioned above), the clog MAY dessolve and no harm is done.

Good luck & keep us informed.
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Old 09-29-2016, 02:48 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by rracer5 View Post
Should the "chimney" be hot when running on 120VAC? Sounds to me like its not switching over properly.

Also, when you plugged it in the night before, was the trailer level? If not, you may have created an "ammonia clog" in one of the bends of the lines. If the ammonia tries to circulate for a long period of time and can't, it will build up and become permanent. Sometimes if you shut fridge down for a few days and try again (after leveling as mentioned above), the clog MAY dessolve and no harm is done.

Good luck & keep us informed.
Yes.
The 'chimney' will be hot whether you are heating with electric or propane.

The boiler portion is the same unit for both and the heating element (AC) or the burner (propane) depending on which is selected, provide the necessary heat.
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Old 09-29-2016, 04:50 PM   #8
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Yes I had the exact same problem. It worked on 120V but not on propane despite a high flame and hot chimney. I couldn't work it out and called Dometic. The "Tech" support person gave boilerplate answers for general operations, things in the manual I already new and were of no use. Finally I took it to a independent RV shop. They removed the fridge and said they never really did anything special to it. But it was working. Sorry that this is not much help.

This is what I did that didn't really solve the problem, but it addresses some potential problems.

Remove the chimney top vent and use a mirror and strong flashlight to look down it for obstructions. There is a spiral air mixer inside that can't be removed with the fridge in place. Make sure it is hanging properly from the top of the chimney. If not, pull the fridge and replace. Replace the vent and make sure it is facing with the high side to the outside.
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Old 09-30-2016, 02:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mherte View Post
I haven't been able to find a thread on this version of poor fridge performance but I'm hoping someone's already solved this problem and can offer some suggestions.

Our refrigerator is a Dometic model RM4223. Up until this weekend, the only issue has been learning which settings provided the least freezing and the best cooling for each power source. However, on our latest trip, we had the unfortunate experience of sour milk and melted butter etc.

As usual, we had chilled it down using shore power (120VAC) for at least one night before leaving. We loaded it up lightly as most meals this trip were not prepared in the camper, and ran it on 12VDC over the 400 mile drive to our campsite. When we arrived at the RV park, I switched to propane. Then at breakfast time we found the box to be rather warm and some food spoiled. This despite the fact that the flame was lit and the "chimney" was hot. So I switched back to 120VAC, but it only cooled slightly. Going home running 12VDC did not provide much cooling at all.

Today, I bought a refrigerator thermometer, placed it in the fridge and connected to 120VAC. I set the temp dial on '7' (usually we use '5'). After 8 hrs, the temperature inside was about 70 degrees. The "chimney" was hot.

To sum up, it seems that performance is poor regardless of power source.

Anyone had a similar experience? Ideas to restore proper operation?
See http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ge-104964.html to understand what I went through and details of my "fixes".

My experiences were wildly inconsistent fridge performance in all 3 modes. Sometimes it would cool great, sometimes not at all. On longer trips, the plywood dividing the fridge compartment from the sink actually got hot. I realized the hot air from the heat source was not getting out of the camper.

My first step was to insulate the compartment with Reflectix. I curved the Reflectix to guide the hot air out the top vent. In studying the top vent, I realized they were actually part of a Dometic installation kit for the 4223 fridge. The engineer at Dometic who approved or designed those vents should be fired or worse. They make it very difficult for the needed air flow to set up and cool the fridge coils.

Anyway, the insulation and air guides still did not consistently set up the convection flow (cool air in bottom vent, hot air out top vent) the fridge needs to operate correctly. Like you, I got a remote temp gauge to try to figure things out - mine will work in the minivan while towing.

It turned out that installing a computer case fan to blow air out the top vent was the fix. A couple of others led the way in the linked thread. I found a 120mm/12V/0.07A/440CFM/1200RPM ball bearing computer case fan at Best Buy for $10. I tie-wrapped it to the 2 bottom slots in the top grill on the aft side of center.

Unbelievable results:
- on DC (I use DC mode when towing), air flow of the moving A-frame is sufficient, fan is off, and the fridge will easily pull below freezing at highway speeds for more than a couple of hours. I use pit stops with the fan still off to let the fridge warm back up to prevent freezing contents. There is no way to regulate the DC power to the fridge.
- on AC, I use the fan. Normally have to set fridge at 3-4 (7 point scale) to keep it from freezing. Temps are generally good at 32 - 36 degrees, even in 90+ outside temps. I will start initial cool down with dial set at 7, takes 3-4 hours to pull down below 40 from 82 degree summer temps in my garage.
- on propane, I use the fan. Dial is set from 1.5 to 3 (5 point scale) to keep it from freezing.

While the insulation and ducting helps, the fan is the key to getting the necessary air flow going through those pitiful excuses for vents. With the right air flow, the fridge is a great way to keep food.

Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time
last trip - Black Hills, Custer State Park
next trip - Utah 5 National Parks (Capital Reef, Zion, Canyonlands, Bryce Canyon, Arches)
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Old 09-30-2016, 02:24 PM   #10
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Unfortunately end users beat their heads against the wall and spend more money to cure faulty Dometic products. When a company states that 50 degrees is acceptable for a refrigerator and claim no issues...
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Old 09-30-2016, 09:12 PM   #11
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Unfortunately end users beat their heads against the wall and spend more money to cure faulty Dometic products. When a company states that 50 degrees is acceptable for a refrigerator and claim no issues...
I disagree. I've had 2 Dometic fridges in a pop-up and an A-frame. The fridges themselves work great. My pop-up had an installation with a different style grill that allowed a good convection air current to set up without a fan.

The A-frame install, not so good. But once the installation was corrected to provide proper air flow, the A-frame fridge works well and very efficiently. The installation problem is both a Forest River and Dometic issue.

The Cool Cat in the A-frame (a Dometic air conditioner and heat pump) works quite well also. It cools the low wall A-frame in all weather with a low current draw (runs well on a 15 amp circuit).

I have found the technical info I needed on the Dometic web site and here on the forums to fix all my issues.

just my thoughts, yours obviously differ
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Old 09-30-2016, 09:20 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by mjpallone View Post
Sounds like you have a real problem with your fridge. It should easily maintain a cold temperature especially after 24 hours on 120V. One of our friends discovered their fridge wasn't maintaining proper temperature and discovered is was not installed correctly at the factory. They had to work with Dometic to identify the issue. The insulation was missing and it was installed improperly. Forest River paid to have a new Fridge installed correctly. The install was overseen by Dometic technician. The new fridge works great.
WOW! I'm having some problems and Dometic is telling me to check the fan on the back of the uit. I can't see or hear a fan.....I'm frustrated!
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Old 09-30-2016, 09:37 PM   #13
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WOW! I'm having some problems and Dometic is telling me to check the fan on the back of the uit. I can't see or hear a fan.....I'm frustrated!
They're wanting you to check a fan that is on the back of the unit. Look up from the outside it's on top of the black tube that goes back and forth. It's thermistor controlled but unless it's hot outside it won't come on anyway.
If you are lucky FR left a big open area above the fridge holding hot air and boxing that in will help. Proper installation above fridge should be flush with back of fridge all the way to top vent.
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Old 09-30-2016, 09:50 PM   #14
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WOW! I'm having some problems and Dometic is telling me to check the fan on the back of the uit. I can't see or hear a fan.....I'm frustrated!
You should be. There is no fan on the back of the 4223 - and the tech should know it. Or at least look it up if he is not familiar with the model number. There is no control board or thermostat, either. It is a continuous run 3 way small fridge for pop-ups and A-frames. It does not cycle. The installation and operating manuals for the 4223 are available on-line.

As I said in my other posts, in most low wall A-frames, the fridge coils are not getting enough cooling air passing over them. The coils are mounted very close to the back of the fridge, and the grills and installation in the A-frame tend to create stagnant hot air in the fridge back compartment instead of air flowing over the coils. When the fridge is working, you need to feel a steady flow of warm-to-hot air coming out of the top vent - and not just from the chimney.

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Old 09-30-2016, 11:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by pgandw View Post
My first step was to insulate the compartment with Reflectix. I curved the Reflectix to guide the hot air out the top vent. In studying the top vent, I realized they were actually part of a Dometic installation kit for the 4223 fridge. The engineer at Dometic who approved or designed those vents should be fired or worse. They make it very difficult for the needed air flow to set up and cool the fridge coils.
Fred, if it's not too much trouble, could you post a photo of this installation? I'd appreciate seeing how / where exactly you placed the Reflectix. Also, where did you get power for your fan? Photo of that? Thanks for your input and your consideration of my request.
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Old 10-01-2016, 09:29 AM   #16
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Fred, if it's not too much trouble, could you post a photo of this installation? I'd appreciate seeing how / where exactly you placed the Reflectix. Also, where did you get power for your fan? Photo of that? Thanks for your input and your consideration of my request.
There's more information in this thread: http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ge-104964.html. The thread is currently near the top of page 3 in the A-frame forum.

I originally got the ideas from threads on another pop-up forum. These were further developed with help and leading from Tom, Bensinc, and Big Red Camper in the linked thread.

I was replacing my converter at the time, and I wanted to use a lighted switch. So it was easiest to power the fan from the "everything" circuit, and run a single wire power lead from the switch to the fridge compartment. I just used the common (negative) from the fridge DC wiring.

In retrospect, the switch inside the camper is a waste. I run the fan full time when the fridge is on propane or AC. The fridge efficiency is so much greater with the fan on. And the fan only draws 70ma. The only time I would likely turn the fan off would be the fridge getting too cold on lowest setting when camping in near-winter weather.

The fan switch would be better located close to the DC mode switch in the fridge compartment. I do turn the fan off when towing and fridge is on DC. The air flow while towing at highway speeds is plenty to keep the fridge cool - it will pull below freezing unless I leave the fan off during pit stops - even in Texas hot 90 degree heat. I expect to add the switch in the fridge compartment this fall.

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Pictures of the Reflectix:
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Old 10-02-2016, 09:21 PM   #17
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Thanks for the photos, Fred. This is very helpful.
My experiments this week show that the fridge is indeed cooling down to at least 40 degrees, but very slowly (both AC and propane) and only at the highest settings (on propane). I'm probably going to follow your lead and add the insulation around the back of the unit first and add a fan too.

BTW, do you have a link to the brand/model for your wireless thermometer? I am using a household refrigerator unit for my tests, but the wireless thing would be much better.
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:22 AM   #18
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Thanks for the photos, Fred. This is very helpful.
My experiments this week show that the fridge is indeed cooling down to at least 40 degrees, but very slowly (both AC and propane) and only at the highest settings (on propane). I'm probably going to follow your lead and add the insulation around the back of the unit first and add a fan too.

BTW, do you have a link to the brand/model for your wireless thermometer? I am using a household refrigerator unit for my tests, but the wireless thing would be much better.
Mherte

The wireless thermometer was a battery-powered household unit from Walmart. Cost around $10. Updates once a minute. Uses AA in transmitter and AAA in receiver. I am still on original set of batteries. I put batteries in and put transmitter in fridge during trip prep. Remove batteries when I return home. Now that fridge is dependable, my primary worry is to make sure the temp doesn't go into the 20s for too long, and freeze everything inside. Wife is still not convinced, and prefers using our coolers and ice.

The 120mm ball bearing computer case fan came from Best Buy - again about $10 - and had a 4 pin plug for motherboards already on it. Since I build my own computers, I found a 2 pin matching plug to take the fan direct to the power supply when there isn't a motherboard header. I had to look up which two fan wires were power, and ignored the fan speed control wires. My fan runs continuously at 1200 RPM at 12V, no temp or speed control. It's very quiet - I can barely hear it running if I'm outside by the fridge vent. The Fantastic Fan makes a lot more noise, even on low setting. At 70ma for the fridge fan, I'm not concerned with power draw.

I left enough extra wire to pull the top vent out about 6 inches, which is all I need to access the top switches. More than that, and I have to disconnect the plug first - behind the lower vent. Last time I disconnected the plug and the live power pin contacted the copper propane pipe. This blew the fuse for the circuit the fan is on. Which is another good reason for the fan power switch in the fridge compartment, not inside the camper.

hope this helps
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2008 Hyundai Entourage
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time
2 pics of Palo Duro (Amarillo, TX), and 2 pics of Black Hills (Custer SP and Wind Cave NP)
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:58 AM   #19
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The 140mm fan i bought came a wired on female connector that normally attaches to the male on the motherboard. And a male connector pigtail. I used the pigtail so the grill can be easily taken off by sliding the connector apart. It is very fine wire so solder it well and use some shrink tubing for strain relief.

I doubt whether 120mm or 140mm would make much of a difference in fridge performance.
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Old 10-10-2016, 07:00 PM   #20
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Well, so far so good - the fridge seems to be working properly now. Here's what I did:
Pulled out the refrigerator and cleaned the flue. It actually was not clogged, but since I'd taken the thing out, it was for "good measure".
When I re-installed it, I lined the upper portion of the compartment with Refletix.
I added a 140mm fan ($4.99 at Fry's Electronics) controlled by a push button switch.
Total cost including insulation, fan, switch, switch bracket, misc. screws about $35.00 and about 8 hours - including shopping for materials and drinking one glass of fine California wine.
Bottom line: 120VAC cooled the unit to 40° in about 16 hrs. Switched to propane and it's holding that temperature as I type. Even better the settings are lower than I've been using.

Thanks to all who contributed, especially Fred W.

Photo notes: Photos don't show the insulation which I completed too close to dinner time to spend taking pictures! Suffice to say it looks similar to what Fred did.
The last shot shows my linked tie-wraps that allow prevent the vent cover from falling and breaking the fan wires.
Finally, although it's not likely to get electrocuted from mounting the fan switch the way I did, it's always important to disconnect the shore power cable before drilling into or pulling the outlet off the wall. (I was able to drill the plate while it was in place, but had to pull it in order to mount the bracket because I couldn't get the nut in place. An alternative to pulling it off would be to mount the switch bracket with a sheet metal screw.)
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