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Old 07-28-2016, 05:03 PM   #1
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Replacing my A-frame WFCO Converter

For those who have read bits and pieces, here is a summary of the whole story.

When we took delivery of our A122 in April 2014, I had dual batteries installed by the dealer (Nolan's in Denver) to run the heater for 4 nights camping in the Colorado Rockies. We don't deliberately camp in snow, but we do want to camp on those fall, winter, spring weekends where day time temps are 40+, and nights can be in the 20s.

I didn't pay any attention to the batteries until a trip to Lincoln, Nebraska in Nov 2013. It's a 9 hour drive with the camper, and we run the fridge on DC while traveling. We stayed in a campground with electric hook-ups, so no issues. When we got home, I plugged the camper in (folded down) to recharge the batteries. After a week, I measured the voltage and they were at 11 volts. Another week, same thing. Obviously, the converter was not charging the batteries. I broke out a 10A Sears charger I had, but the circuit breaker on the charger kept tripping. Separated the batteries, and finally got 1 to take a charge from the charger. Could not get the other one recharged. Opened the camper, and found the 40A fuse blown. Replaced the fuse, and then put the batteries back in parallel. The unequal charges caused an electrical fire in the battery box, which I put out by cutting the parallel cable with insulated lineman's pliers.

The batteries (tops had holes from the gassing hydrogen) were replaced with 2 Interstate 6V golf cart batteries from Costco. A disconnect was installed. The converter fan came on for the 1st time when I turned on the batteries - they were charging and life was good again.

A couple of months later, I checked the battery water level, and both batteries were low. I added water and started monitoring things. I also downloaded and read the WFCO manual. It said after 44 hours at low constant output, the converter would shift to trickle mode at 13.2V. When the camper was plugged in, I always got 13.7V at the batteries, no matter what. The WFCO converter was not going to trickle mode as advertised, and might have been the cause of low battery water.

I bought a PD (Progressive Dynamics) 4135 converter, which is supposed to be a drop-in replacement for the WFCO 8735.

Last weekend, I installed the PD converter. I moved one circuit at a time, starting with the 30A AC power-in circuit. Between the minimal PD instructions, the WFCO labeling (pretty good), and handbuilder's "sticky" thread on A-frame fuse identification, I was able to figure things out. The WFCO/Rockwood labeling was all correct, and wire sizes were the correct minimum for the fuse/circuit breaker.

I got rid of the serial wire nut mess, especially on the DC negative side, by putting in a bus bar for all the DC negative connections. On the single wire DC circuits (4 of 5), I replaced the wire nut connections with waterproof butt connectors. For the one circuit (a real miscellaneous circuit), I put in a small bus bar for all the positive wires to tie to. My notes on what powers what have been added to the sticky fuse identification thread. But for grins, this misc circuit powers the CO/propane detector, the stereo, the orange porch light, the white tongue light, the interior night light, the heater fan, and the water heater controls.

Physically, the PD converter is about 5/8 inch narrower than the WFCO, which was a real pain to frame in to the dinette seat riser. Height was fine.

Everything worked as advertised when I turned the power back on. Battery charge voltage was 13.67V. Last night, it had dropped into trickle mode at 13.23V. All appliances worked. Other note of interest - the thermostat for heater and Cool Cat has its own DC circuit. No heat or A/C without the thermostat/fan control (I have the electronic thermostat). I do not have power tongue jack or roof lift.

Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
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Old 07-28-2016, 06:02 PM   #2
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Project turned out good and you learned some things about your rig. When my converter goes I will replace it with a PD until then I don't see it as a priority. I do carry a 2/10/50 portable automatic battery charger just in case.
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:11 AM   #3
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I cannot get my WFCO to go into trickle charge, like yours it stays at 13.7v...so I disconnect the batteries after about 24 hrs of recharging.
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:33 AM   #4
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What was the model number of your WFCO? I have a popup but guessing they might be the same model.

When my WFCO converter goes I will change to the PD converter; no doubt. However, my WFCO is a little over three years old (probably more like four) and drops down to 13.2 to maintain the batteries.
For almost three months, my dual 12V batts were on converter charge and when I checked the levels they were down very little; so I topped them off. And periodically, when I could, I would open the camper's door and look at my Trimetric meter and it was on 13.2.
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Old 07-29-2016, 06:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
I cannot get my WFCO to go into trickle charge, like yours it stays at 13.7v...so I disconnect the batteries after about 24 hrs of recharging.
x2. Quickly figured our the WFCO was not doing what the manual said. Would not drop back to a 13.2 volt holding pattern after charging. Stayed at 13.7v. Installed a progressive dynamics external unit on its own 120V circuit, and flipped off the WFCO. Happy now for 3 years.
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Old 07-29-2016, 06:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
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I cannot get my WFCO to go into trickle charge, like yours it stays at 13.7v...so I disconnect the batteries after about 24 hrs of recharging.

A dry battery is one of the reasons I installed a battery switch.
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Old 07-29-2016, 08:29 PM   #7
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A quick second note. While I was installing and testing the PD converter, the cooling fan would come on and run for a couple of minutes and then shut off for about 15-30 minutes. This was a very hot evening in the garage, and I was testing 12 volt stuff and using the lights. The PD fan was very quiet - I only knew it was on because I had the cover off and could see the blades spinning. Very different from the WFCO fan, which was very noticeable noise-wise the few times it ever came on.

FWIW, the PD 4135 cost $144 from an on-line source, and had $17 shipping charge.

Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:54 PM   #8
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As soon as we brought our Wildwood home from the dealer I tore out the WFCO and replaced it with a PD. In all the years we've been camping we never had a properly working WFCO. WF, by the way stands for "World Friendship". It's a Chinese manufacturer of the cheapest converters which is why most of the RV manufacturers use them. The WFCOs seldom (if ever) go in to Boost Mode when your battery is really low and often forgets to step down into trickle mode when your battery is charged.

The PD (Progressive Dynamics) converters are among the best you can find. Highly recommended.
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Old 08-04-2016, 08:55 AM   #9
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Just picked up a new PD4135 online for $129, free ship and no tax. Hopefully will charge my batteries faster, and help them last longer.
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:22 PM   #10
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Just picked up a new PD4135 online for $129, free ship and no tax. Hopefully will charge my batteries faster, and help them last longer.
Installed...120v side was quick (5 breakers popped right in the new unit), but the 12v side took a while to cut the soldered wires from WFCO fuse panel and reconnect them to the 12v fuse panel on PD. The 4135 is slightly smaller both in converter size and housing size but is quieter, working great and I am reading 13.2v trickle charge right now.
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Old 08-11-2016, 09:21 PM   #11
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if the original equipment is not working properly, you should be filing warranty claims. otherwise, future buyers will continue to get the same junk installed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DickiedooFlagman View Post
x2. Quickly figured our the WFCO was not doing what the manual said. Would not drop back to a 13.2 volt holding pattern after charging. Stayed at 13.7v. Installed a progressive dynamics external unit on its own 120V circuit, and flipped off the WFCO. Happy now for 3 years.
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Old 08-11-2016, 09:23 PM   #12
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following this thread

Any photos of the installs?

Thanks, BP
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Old 08-12-2016, 08:42 AM   #13
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BP: I'll get some photos later today before I button up for the trip.

As for filing a warranty claim (as Rob Hagen wants), I'm not going to bother for several reasons:

- my 2 year extended warranty ended in April.
- I was not interested in replacing with another WFCO converter (what warranty would have done at best). I was also not interested in having some non-caring electrician do the replacement installation. I wanted to do it myself to ensure I had better quality components and better wiring practices.

WFCO has a pretty sorry reputation among those who understand these devices. It's a cheap Chinese-made converter with apparently little quality control. OTOH, there are literally millions of RV owners with WFCO converters that never complain or replace their converters. It took me 2 years to figure out and confirm that my WFCO converter was not working as specified - and I have an electrical background. It did do most of what the specs said it would.

The other issue for Forest River is - even if they wanted to switch to Progressive Dynamics for converters - could PD produce enough converters fast enough at their current standard? Progressive has a good chunk of the RV converter replacement market, but that is well less than 10% of the RVs produced. Trying to supply the OEM market would definitely change Progressive Dynamics as a company.

I realize you are unhappy with Forest River, and want to generate a movement to get them to fix their quality issues. I'm opting out because I have other causes I am more interested in, and I'd rather spend my time using my camper for camping.

Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
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Old 08-14-2016, 08:34 PM   #14
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I just installed a dual power outlet so I can monitor the converter voltage and plug in a Fantastic Endless Breeze portable fan. I spliced it into the wires that come out of the converter and feed the 10 Amp circuit for the ceiling vent fan and dome lights.



I switched the converter off and then on again to reset the timer. For two days it was putting out 13.6 volts, then dropped to 13.0 volts, so it looks like it is working as designed at this time.




Of course, 13.6 volts will not properly charge the battery to full capacity, so I will need to continue to use my stand-alone charger that supplies 14.4 volts whenever I need full capacity. For me this is an acceptable procedure, but the PD converter swap is obviously a superior system since it does everything automatically.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:43 PM   #15
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pgandw, I am in the process of installing the same unit in my truck camper and could really use your help with one thing. The black wire that powers the converter side of the unit, where should it be attached on the AC side? The manual says "connect converter hot to an open breaker". Does this have to be a dedicated breaker or do I connect where the shore power hot wire connects to the main breaker? Thanks in advance for your help!!
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Old 02-10-2017, 11:55 PM   #16
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The first AC circuit breaker powers the converter. The AC wires from the converter - black goes to the circuit breaker, white goes to the neutral bus, green goes to the ground bus.

Fred W
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:02 AM   #17
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The first AC circuit breaker powers the converter. The AC wires from the converter - black goes to the circuit breaker, white goes to the neutral bus, green goes to the ground bus.

Fred W
You have to look at one hooked up and think it through for a bit. Normally a breaker picks up power from the main buss and feeds it out to a circuit. But, when a breaker is used as a main breaker, the opposite is true. The power comes in through the breaker and then feeds the main buss. When you switch this breaker off the main buss is dead, killing all circuits. Think of it as the power flowing backwards through the breaker that is used as a main. It brings power in, not out.
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:19 AM   #18
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That's what I was concerned about. If I connect it to the same pole that the incoming shore power hot connects to, the converter side will have power all the time, even if the main breaker trips. Is this safe?
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Old 02-11-2017, 11:05 AM   #19
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Sorry for the erroneous information. This site does not let me delete or edit prior posts.

I'm going from memory and what few notes I have because the camper is in the garage for the winter.

You have to move the circuit breakers and fuses from the WFCO to the PD4135. PD does not supply either. You could buy new - I did for the fuses. But the circuit breakers I just moved over from the WFCO to the PD one circuit at a time.

Cedar Creek Woody is correct, and I was wrong. The 1st circuit breaker is the master input breaker - and it should be 30 amps. It's not at the top, like in a household breaker box. Your external power cord should be wired to this breaker.

There were 4 more AC breakers in my WFCO. One for the converter, one for the A/C, the 3rd for the fridge and 120V outlets, and the 4th for the microwave. There are only 3 breaker slots, so four half-width breakers are used (and 1 full-width for the input). I did one circuit at a time, tested it, and then disconnected all power while I worked on the next. I started with the input breaker, the converter breaker was second.

After I moved all the AC breakers and circuits, I tested the AC side operation. I then started on the DC side, mapping what was on each DC circuit as I went fuse by fuse. I was initially confused because the WFCO had 7 fuses and the PD only has 6. Finally figured out the reverse polarity 40 amp fuse on the WFCO is actually part of the converter, and is NOT a seventh DC circuit.

I made sure the battery circuit (fused at 40 amp for the output of the converter) of the PD went only to the battery. Other A-frame owners have found other stuff besides the battery on that circuit. IIRC, the battery, fridge DC, water pump, thermostat and heater fan combined, each have separate circuits and fuses. The overhead stuff that passes through the roof-raised contact is all on a single circuit - the 2 overhead lights and the Fantastic Fan. Everything else is on the last circuit - stereo, porch light, tongue light, etc.

Take it slow, do one circuit at a time, and map out what you do. And label the fuses and circuit breakers! I'm very happy with the PD converter/panel. The fan is much quieter, and it does a much better job of charging and maintaining my batteries.

Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
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Old 02-11-2017, 11:51 AM   #20
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That's what I was concerned about. If I connect it to the same pole that the incoming shore power hot connects to, the converter side will have power all the time, even if the main breaker trips. Is this safe?
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. If the incoming hot wire is connected to the 30 amp breaker the entire converter is protected by the 30 amp breaker. If you turn this breaker off the only current in the converter is where this wire is clamped to the breaker. Remember this 30 amp breaker is being used the reverse of the other breakers. It is feeding power to the main buss, not drawing power from the buss like the other breakers are doing.
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