Frozen tanks???

[Arcosanti]

My new 2013 Trilogy 3650RE has a heated underbelly, as well as heated grey and black tanks. I've had the tank heaters all "on" for the past few days after returning from a trip, and am now just getting around to attempting to dump the tanks in zero degree weather. I've had the furnace on since I got home, but the propane ran out sometime last night. The interior was 32 when I got into it before I left for the dump station. Once I got here, I discovered that the dump gates are all frozen into place. I thought that keeping the tank heaters on would keep something like this from happening?
When I got home, I winterized the unit with RV antifreeze, so the plumbing side should be ok. I assume that the amount of antifreeze that drained into the grey and black tanks wasn't enough to keep them from freezing. I left the low point drains open when I winterized the unit, they were frozen shut. When I left this morning, I could see a large chunk of pink ice under the low point drain, so I know that the antifreeze will eventually thaw out frozen water if the ratios are right....
Since it is supposed to get much colder than zero over the next few days, I want to empty these tanks ASAP. A cracked black tank that's 2/3 full doesn't sound like fun to deal with, that's for sure!
I've bought a gallon of straight up auto antifreeze at the truck stop, and poured 1/2 into the toilet and flushed, the the other 1/2 into the2 grey tanks, hoping that it'll thaw things out. I've also switched over to the auxiliary propane tank and cranked up the furnace, hoping that it'll heat the underbelly enough to get things liquid again. Any other suggestions as to what I can do?
Also, should these things have frozen to begin with if the heating mats are functioning? They may work just fine, but the waste gate being away from the bottom of the tank might be too far away in such extreme cold? Do the heating mats work on battery power, or only when hooked up to 120v? Thanks in advance!
Scott

[paulmlac]

I'm assuming your valves are below the bottom of the unit (i.e., not in a compartment). If so, could you somehow use a cardboard box cut up to "compartmentalize" the space, then heat it with a lightbulb? Just trying to come up with a way to heat the valve space.

[Ford Idaho]

First off the A/F you just used will contaminated the tanks and if/when you dump it the dump site.
RV A/F would have been better and cheaper.
Second half a gallon is not even close to being enough.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by Arcosanti

My new 2013 Trilogy 3650RE has a heated underbelly, as well as heated grey and black tanks. I've had the tank heaters all "on" for the past few days after returning from a trip, and am now just getting around to attempting to dump the tanks in zero degree weather. I've had the furnace on since I got home, but the propane ran out sometime last night. The interior was 32 when I got into it before I left for the dump station. Once I got here, I discovered that the dump gates are all frozen into place. I thought that keeping the tank heaters on would keep something like this from happening?
When I got home, I winterized the unit with RV antifreeze, so the plumbing side should be ok. I assume that the amount of antifreeze that drained into the grey and black tanks wasn't enough to keep them from freezing. I left the low point drains open when I winterized the unit, they were frozen shut. When I left this morning, I could see a large chunk of pink ice under the low point drain, so I know that the antifreeze will eventually thaw out frozen water if the ratios are right....
Since it is supposed to get much colder than zero over the next few days, I want to empty these tanks ASAP. A cracked black tank that's 2/3 full doesn't sound like fun to deal with, that's for sure!
I've bought a gallon of straight up auto antifreeze at the truck stop, and poured 1/2 into the toilet and flushed, the the other 1/2 into the2 grey tanks, hoping that it'll thaw things out. I've also switched over to the auxiliary propane tank and cranked up the furnace, hoping that it'll heat the underbelly enough to get things liquid again. Any other suggestions as to what I can do?
Also, should these things have frozen to begin with if the heating mats are functioning? They may work just fine, but the waste gate being away from the bottom of the tank might be too far away in such extreme cold? Do the heating mats work on battery power, or only when hooked up to 120v? Thanks in advance!
Scott

your heated tanks work off of 12 volt, make sure you are plugged in. They wrap the elbows also. Get some deicer and spay up your dump pipe if your pull handle is located below the belly to the elements. Go get 4 gals of the pink stuff and dump it down the drains and the toilet, open all the cabinet doors that have plumbing and run a 1500 watt heater. In my unit behind 1 cabinet door is my water heater which I point my heater at and it keeps my underbelly at 46 degrees

[Arcosanti]

Thanks for the reply's. I knew that the antifreeze wasn't a good choice, but flying J didn't have any RV antifreeze. After waiting at the dump station for over an hour with the generator running and furnace on high (electric, not propane. The propane fill tank at Flying J was broken from the cold), I finally gave up and went home. I bought 5 gallons of RV antifreeze after getting home, and put all 5 in the fresh tank, but it seems that the pump is frozen, as I can't get any of the faucets or toilet to work.
At this point, any damage is done, I'll take it to the dealer later this week for some warranty work. It's been well below zero for over 24 hours, no additional damage can be averted by me being out there freezing trying to deal with it now. It'll thaw out while in the shop, and then they can repair any damage, and show me what I did wrong. I've winterized units for years, and understood everything that they said during my post sale walkthru on how to winterize it. Clearly I did something wrong...
At some point in time during my trip I somehow hit the button to turn off the Xantrex inverter. I wonder if turning that off kept the tank heaters from operating? That shouldn't have been the case while plugged in at my house overnight, they should have been operational, and I can't image that the tanks froze during the 30 minute drive to FJ, while sloshing around on the road, no matter how cold?
FYI, when I got back home after my trip, I first attached my compressor, set at 40psi, to the fresh water intake, then opened each hot and cold faucet individually until only air blew out. Then I poured 4.5 gallons of RV antifreeze into the fresh tank, and opened each faucet again until pink came out. Since I don't know how to winterize the ice maker and cold water on the Frigidare fridge, I've just been lazy and kept the heat on inside until I take it into the dealer. No matter what, that water pump had plenty of RV antifreeze flowing through it early on, I don't see how it could be frozen now. But the water pump light is on, and I hear no noise when I open a faucet, and no liquid comes out of any faucets.......

[wrvond]

Depending on how much water was in your holding tank, you may have diluted the AF to the point it was no longer effective at extremely low temperatures. Personally, I drain the fresh water tank, but do not put AF in it. I use the pick up tube on the water pump to push undiluted AF through the system, then pour undiluted AF into all the drains and toilet. I was in the camper last night, and everything was doing fine.

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by Arcosanti

My new 2013 Trilogy 3650RE has a heated underbelly, as well as heated grey and black tanks. I've had the tank heaters all "on" for the past few days after returning from a trip, and am now just getting around to attempting to dump the tanks in zero degree weather. I've had the furnace on since I got home, but the propane ran out sometime last night. The interior was 32 when I got into it before I left for the dump station. Once I got here, I discovered that the dump gates are all frozen into place. I thought that keeping the tank heaters on would keep something like this from happening?
When I got home, I winterized the unit with RV antifreeze, so the plumbing side should be ok. I assume that the amount of antifreeze that drained into the grey and black tanks wasn't enough to keep them from freezing. I left the low point drains open when I winterized the unit, they were frozen shut. When I left this morning, I could see a large chunk of pink ice under the low point drain, so I know that the antifreeze will eventually thaw out frozen water if the ratios are right....
Since it is supposed to get much colder than zero over the next few days, I want to empty these tanks ASAP. A cracked black tank that's 2/3 full doesn't sound like fun to deal with, that's for sure!
I've bought a gallon of straight up auto antifreeze at the truck stop, and poured 1/2 into the toilet and flushed, the the other 1/2 into the2 grey tanks, hoping that it'll thaw things out. I've also switched over to the auxiliary propane tank and cranked up the furnace, hoping that it'll heat the underbelly enough to get things liquid again. Any other suggestions as to what I can do?
Also, should these things have frozen to begin with if the heating mats are functioning? They may work just fine, but the waste gate being away from the bottom of the tank might be too far away in such extreme cold? Do the heating mats work on battery power, or only when hooked up to 120v? Thanks in advance!
Scott

If you have a genny try heating the valves with a heat gun/hair dryer, keep moving around, valve should open. Even if tanks freeze, you'll never thaw with antifreeze, they are flex plastic probably will be ok, hard CPVC piping may not survive.

[Priusron]

regular antifreeze will be consumed by the microbes in the septic system. it will not damage your septic.

[SparkeyBob]

I worked on powerhouses in lots of cold places....Canada and upper US. My first TT was a 21 foot Sunline. In below zero weather you must think out of the box!. Buy electrical pipe tape and wrap all exposed joints, pipe and valves, then put insulation wrap over that and tape it well. For external control valves I wedge a box, cut to fit snuggly, and cover that. Inside I leave an electric (oil filled) radiator on at all times with kitchen cabinet doors and bath door open to get heat where needed.
Best to go to Key West in zero weather....

[Arcosanti]

Unfortunately, I just came from Key West, and that 31 hour drive doesn't exactly make it a place that I can commute to and from!
With the totally sealed underbelly of the Trilogy's, I can't get to the pipes or water pump as I could in my older units. The only way to get the RV antifreeze into the pipes is through the fresh water tank, unless I'm missing something. Can any Trilogy owners let me know if I'm incorrect?
After a few days with the furnace on, the black tank valve is now operational, as well as 1 of the 2 grey tanks. I'll take it out and dump/flush everything later today, then find out tomorrow when it's at the dealer if/what I did wrong, and how much it'll cost me...

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by Priusron

regular antifreeze will be consumed by the microbes in the septic system. it will not damage your septic.

Yes and no. If sufficiently diluted over several days, yes, but the glycol can shock the system if tossed down the drain undiluted. In the present case the stuff may already be diluted enough.

[WestWardHo]

Acrosanti,
That must be so frustrating and I, for one, appreciate you sharing your experience and reading the responses posted. Do keep us posted and wishing you minimal, if any repairs.

Sherry