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Old 05-26-2018, 10:32 AM   #1
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High altitude, cold weather propane issues.

I've seen a number of posts addressing this problem, but have not seen solutions. Just got back from a week in the mountains. 8600 feet in elevation. Nights down to 35 degrees, warm days (65 to 75). Furnace set at 58 degrees. Two things happen. I hear the furnace kick on in the early hours when it's coldest. The blower runs fine, but the burner kicks on and off. Sometimes it will stay lit after 2 or 3 attempts, and other times it will take as many as 10 attempts before staying lit. The second problem is the refrigerator goes on check, and takes 2 or 3 attempts to get it to re-light. It will then run all day with no problem. Cycles on and off perfectly.
My suspicions are a decrease in propane pressure. I attempted to turn up the regulator pressure. (Did not get too crazy without a manometer). Happened the same time every morning. May be two separate problems, or tied together through the propane system.
Batteries not an issue. Have 4 Golf carts, solar panels, and generator, and also an accurate voltmeter that measures amperage, and amp hours available. No problems there.
Fridge is a Norcold, and I believe furnace is a suburban. If the brand is an issue, I'll get out my books.
Have researched altitude issues, with little solutions.
Looking for your wisdom, and any possible solutions.
Full bottles.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:50 AM   #2
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I just recently left Colorado (Denver area the last 26 years) for the warmth of the desert in southern AZ.

But in my years of RV'ing I've never had any issues with that in the mountains of Colorado.

You might try closing the LP tanks and bleeding out the lines by running the stove burners until the flame goes out.

Now...this next sentence is the most critical point:

Then, open one LP tank very slowly just enough to hear the 'click' when the gas starts flowing, then open the tank the rest of the way very slowly.

Actually, always open the LP tanks slowly like this...

Now, what I like to do is run the gas through the lines.

First I'll open one stove burner until I hear the gas come out, then light it and let it burn for a minute until you see the flame stop flickering, then open the other burners one at a time and do the same.

Once those are working I'll shut them off, then one at a time I'll start the other items...usually the water heater first, fridge second, then furnace last!

You don't need to have them all run at once, but this procedure should bleed the lines of any air or moisture that could be in there.

Hope this helps!
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Old 05-26-2018, 07:25 PM   #3
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I just recently left Colorado (Denver area the last 26 years) for the warmth of the desert in southern AZ.

But in my years of RV'ing I've never had any issues with that in the mountains of Colorado.

You might try closing the LP tanks and bleeding out the lines by running the stove burners until the flame goes out.

Now...this next sentence is the most critical point:

Then, open one LP tank very slowly just enough to hear the 'click' when the gas starts flowing, then open the tank the rest of the way very slowly.

Actually, always open the LP tanks slowly like this...

Now, what I like to do is run the gas through the lines.

First I'll open one stove burner until I hear the gas come out, then light it and let it burn for a minute until you see the flame stop flickering, then open the other burners one at a time and do the same.

Once those are working I'll shut them off, then one at a time I'll start the other items...usually the water heater first, fridge second, then furnace last!

You don't need to have them all run at once, but this procedure should bleed the lines of any air or moisture that could be in there.

Hope this helps!
I'll give this a try. I've been RVing in Colorado for 40 years, and have not had any issues like this. This is my 4th rig, and the first to have troubles like this. Altitude has never been an issue in the past, and the first year with this trailer, (bought new) went fine without these issues showing up till the end of last year. Thanks for the suggestions.
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:35 AM   #4
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Do you drive with the fridge running on LP?

I do...maybe this could help keep the flow going when making the transition in altitude.

Just a thought.
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Old 05-27-2018, 01:31 PM   #5
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I had a similar problem in the cold weather (30s) this year. As long as my tanks were full - no problem. However, when they got down to about a third left the tank - the tank would ice up and the pressure would drop. I don't recall having this problem with other rvs, but did't want to spend the time and money trying to fix the problem. So I took the easy way out and us a:

WarmGuard WG20 Insulated Band Style Gas Cylinder Warmer - Propane Heater, Fits 20, 30 & 40lb Gas Tanks, Fixed Internal Thermostat Max Temp 90 F

Initially was planning on using heat strips 8-12 feet long but decided it could become a fire hazard so I opted for the warmguard. Worked great. Its available on Amazon.
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:26 PM   #6
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Do you drive with the fridge running on LP?

I do...maybe this could help keep the flow going when making the transition in altitude.

Just a thought.
Yes, I always run the Fridge on the road. Stays lit no problem. This seems to only happen middle of the night when it's colder.
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:30 PM   #7
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Not sure about these heaters, but I'll look into them. Do they work on 12 volt?
Not a help if 110 only
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:47 PM   #8
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Following to see resolution . . . .
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Old 05-27-2018, 03:14 PM   #9
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I did have high altitude issues years ago with a refer. Sometimes it would light and sometimes not. The issue is that at high altitude, propane gas can disperse faster because atmospheric pressure is lower. Then refers and water heaters can also be affected by even the slightest breeze at the propane jet. The solution is that the DSI igniter needs to be closer to the propane jet than at lower altitudes where the air is denser. The furnace may have the same issue, but harder to get access into the burner assembly to fix. A dirty propane jet can also restrict and/or interrupt the smooth flow of propane needed for reliable ignition.

The last issue with the furnace can be obstructions in the intake line for combustion air. All furnaces have a 'sail switch', but if there are spider webs, mud daubber nests or whatever inside the intake line, air flow into the combustion chamber may be to reduced too low for safe combustion. The blower will run, but air flow fluctuates and the sail switch turns on and then off, and repeats. As battery voltage drops overnight the problem may get worse. And as the blower ages with dust build up on the fan, rust on the shaft or dirty bearings, then again the issue gets worse.
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Old 05-27-2018, 03:49 PM   #10
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Not just gas pressure but the air mixture is affected by altitude. I have a friend in Utah that camps over 8000 feet and generator and propane performance are affected. I will see what he does.
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Old 05-27-2018, 04:09 PM   #11
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I had a similar problem with a couple of new propane tanks. Weren't properly purged. I merely had them re-filled with "outage valves" opened wide. This purged what air was trapped in tank and now no issues. On my recent trip I camped at altitudes ranging from 4,000 ft to over 8,000 ft in CO, NM, and Wyoming.

Unfortunately not everyone who is "Certified" to fill Propane tanks is properly trained. As for air in tanks, once the tanks have been filled and utilized for a couple cycles, even improperly purged tanks are free of air.
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Old 05-27-2018, 04:43 PM   #12
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Propane tanks are never totally filled with Liquid Propane... there must be a certain amount left for expansion.
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Old 05-27-2018, 04:58 PM   #13
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Propane tanks are never totally filled with Liquid Propane... there must be a certain amount left for expansion.
That expansion space needs to be filled with propane vapor, not air.
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:27 PM   #14
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I had a similar problem with a couple of new propane tanks. Weren't properly purged. I merely had them re-filled with "outage valves" opened wide. This purged what air was trapped in tank and now no issues. On my recent trip I camped at altitudes ranging from 4,000 ft to over 8,000 ft in CO, NM, and Wyoming.

Unfortunately not everyone who is "Certified" to fill Propane tanks is properly trained. As for air in tanks, once the tanks have been filled and utilized for a couple cycles, even improperly purged tanks are free of air.
The problem started when I had a bottle filled in Texas. As I understand in warmer climates they use more butane. That bottle is long gone and all my bottles have been filled here. Seems to happen no matter which bottle I use or which side of the fifth wheel it is on. I've been thinking of replacing the regulator to start and go from there. Lots of discussion around regarding correct regulator pressure output. Trailer is only 2 years old, but I guess I'll have to chase burners and be sure they are clean. Running at altitude could also be carboning them up. Fridge should be easier, but will be tough to get to the furnace burner.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:46 PM   #15
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Check the regulator, Install a 'good' one, over the one installed at manufacture.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:29 PM   #16
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I had a similar problem last summer at Rocky Mountain National Park. The burner on the Dometic fridge and Suburban water heater would not stay lit but only when it was breezy. I opened the access panels, on the outside of the trailer, to the fridge and water heater - problem solved. They weren't getting enough air when the wind was blowing parallel to the trailer.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:05 PM   #17
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Check the regulator, Install a 'good' one, over the one installed at manufacture.

Bingo!!!

IMO, carrying a spare 2 stage LPG regulator is as important as a roll of duct tape.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:46 AM   #18
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Check the regulator, Install a 'good' one, over the one installed at manufacture.
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Bingo!!!

IMO, carrying a spare 2 stage LPG regulator is as important as a roll of duct tape.
What do you guys consider "a good one" as opposed to just replacing with one like the original? My suspicions are with the regulator as neither appliance has enough hours on it to be having burner and mechanical problems, and both work when the pressures are up. I need to at least eliminate the regulator first before dismantling the appliances. Let me know what you recommend and where you would go to purchase one.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:56 AM   #19
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I have a Fairview that came with the 5th wheel.
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:28 AM   #20
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I have a Fairview that came with the 5th wheel.

I looked at my spare but can't figure out what make, some logo, made in the US, no 'auto changeover' bought at a propane supplier not rv dealer, $28 cdn. (probably $4.99 US ), probably meant to be put on a bbq.


You could try the regulator from your propane bbq, if you have one, to eliminate other possibilities before you go out and buy a new one.
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