Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-15-2015, 09:58 PM   #1
Always Learning
 
ependydad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,890
Propane tanks and lock doors / moved

I thought I read that propane isn't supposed to be locked up from a fire/fire department perspective. Well, the door to it, at least. Like they are supposed to be able to get to the knobs to turn it off if needed in an emergent situation.
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
ependydad is offline  
Old 01-15-2015, 10:01 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Timex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 1,658
I guess if the gas needed to be shut off in an emergency, he'd be SOL!
__________________
2012 Flagstaff V Lite 30 WRLTS
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.7 Mag Hemi 3.72 Rearaxle
Nights camped 2015 = 23
Nights camped 2016 = 25
Nights camped 2017 = 13
Nights camped 2018 = 3
Timex is offline  
Old 01-15-2015, 11:05 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
SKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tx_Rider View Post
I replaced the non locking outside compartment door latches with locking ones.
Now my battery, generator and propane compartments are locked up.
Hate to jump on the bandwagon, but it's illegal to lock the doors, you can lock the tanks but the fire department has to be able to turn the tanks off during a fire.
__________________
Now-2014 Sierra 346RETS 5er BUB
Then-2002 Keystone Springdale 286RLDS TT

Nights camped in 2014-28, 2015-127, 2016-10
SKnight is offline  
Old 01-15-2015, 11:18 PM   #4
Member
 
Tx_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 84
Thanks for the concern about the propane.

There are two latches, one is a lock and the other is a non locking latch.
When in storage the tanks are off and the compartment is locked, when I am using the RV I will leave it unlocked.
__________________
2015 Thunderbolt XLR 340X12HP
2019 Ford F350 KR, 6.7, CC, LB with B&W Companion

US Army Retired
Tx_Rider is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 07:17 AM   #5
Infractee
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tx_Rider View Post
Thanks for the concern about the propane.

There are two latches, one is a lock and the other is a non locking latch.
When in storage the tanks are off and the compartment is locked, when I am using the RV I will leave it unlocked.

That is exactly what I do
RhoZeta is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 07:37 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
hrlyguy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: N.W. Illinois
Posts: 312
If someone needed to get to the tanks.It not that hard to get into a lock door if there was a emergency.
__________________
2007.5 Chevy 3500Ltz cc lb Duramax
2010 Sandpiper 345 RET (SOLD)
hrlyguy2 is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 12:29 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
SKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrlyguy2 View Post
If someone needed to get to the tanks.It not that hard to get into a lock door if there was a emergency.
You remember that when the fire department is letting your stuff burn because they can't turn the LP off.

There's reasons for these things. Trust me, they'll let it burn, talk to any firefighter, if there's something that compromises their safety they'll happily stand 50 feet away spraying water keeping other stuff from catching.

Yes, it's easy to break through the door. Once the fire is going the 1/4" hose blowing LP is insignificant. But it's part of their training.
__________________
Now-2014 Sierra 346RETS 5er BUB
Then-2002 Keystone Springdale 286RLDS TT

Nights camped in 2014-28, 2015-127, 2016-10
SKnight is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 12:39 PM   #8
Infractee
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 796
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKnight View Post
You remember that when the fire department is letting your stuff burn because they can't turn the LP off.

There's reasons for these things. Trust me, they'll let it burn, talk to any firefighter, if there's something that compromises their safety they'll happily stand 50 feet away spraying water keeping other stuff from catching.

Yes, it's easy to break through the door. Once the fire is going the 1/4" hose blowing LP is insignificant. But it's part of their training.

Not trying to be argumentative, just providing a counterpoint of my reasoning.

1: If you are inside a burning camper, I do not believe the FD will be looking for the LP tank valve before they go in and get you and subsequently leaving you to die because you have a CH751 holding that door closed. Their fire axe would make quick work of that door if they were concerned about it.

2: If I am out of my camper and it is burning, pull up a chair and relax, that is what insurance is for. I certainly would not want FD or anybody else try to play hero to save it, it is well insured and far too easily replaced.

RhoZeta is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 12:59 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Indymule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 644
I'm with you Rhozeta, by the time the fire department gets there, I don't care. Let it burn.

These things go up fast in a fire. If your not already out, your in big trouble.

I'm curious sknight when you say it's illegal to lock the propane, would that be state or federal law. I would love to see your source.



Sent from my iPad using Forest River Forums
__________________
Jay & Maria - Camp Dog Joplin
2018 Cedar Creek Champagne 38EL
Fulltimers since May 2018!
2017 Ford F350 Crewcab Dually Diesel
Officially homeless and loving it.
Ham Callsign K9NDY
Indymule is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 01:18 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
SKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoZeta View Post
Not trying to be argumentative, just providing a counterpoint of my reasoning.

1: If you are inside a burning camper, I do not believe the FD will be looking for the LP tank valve before they go in and get you and subsequently leaving you to die because you have a CH751 holding that door closed. Their fire axe would make quick work of that door if they were concerned about it.

2: If I am out of my camper and it is burning, pull up a chair and relax, that is what insurance is for. I certainly would not want FD or anybody else try to play hero to save it, it is well insured and far too easily replaced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indymule View Post
I'm with you Rhozeta, by the time the fire department gets there, I don't care. Let it burn.

These things go up fast in a fire. If your not already out, your in big trouble.

I'm curious sknight when you say it's illegal to lock the propane, would that be state or federal law. I would love to see your source.



Sent from my iPad using Forest River Forums
It's so easy to sit back and speculate about what the fire department should and shouldn't do.

I worked closely with public service for many years, they adhere to their training, if they pull up they're not going to pull up a chair with you and watch it burn.

Here's the official NFPA code 58 PDF, pg 48, paragraph e, point 1. You can search the document for "Lock" and find more guidelines.

Quote:
(e) Appliances installed within vehicles shall comply with
the following:
1. If in the cargo space, they shall be readily accessible
whether the vehicle is loaded or empty.

2. Appliances shall be constructed or otherwise protected to
minimize possible damage or impaired operation due to
cargo shifting or handling.
3. Appliances shall be located so that a fire at any appliance
will not block egress of persons from the vehicle.
(f) Provision shall be made in all appliance installations
for a supply of outside air for complete combustion.
(g) A permanent caution plate shall be provided, affixed
to either the appliance or the vehicle outside of any enclosure
and adjacent to the container(s), and shall include the following
items:
This is the link to the PDF.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...83829542,d.eXY

Leave armchair quarterbacking for Sunday. There are rules and reasons for everything.

Actually, this is hilarious. If your weight goes one pound over your tow rating you're an overloaded idiot and god help you if you so much as touch one of MY family members.

But lock the doors, against code specified by the NFPA? Pishaw, I'll sit back having a cold one as it burns with my insurance agent on the line telling them where to send the check. They'll never know I locked the tanks against code.
__________________
Now-2014 Sierra 346RETS 5er BUB
Then-2002 Keystone Springdale 286RLDS TT

Nights camped in 2014-28, 2015-127, 2016-10
SKnight is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 01:23 PM   #11
Infractee
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 796
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKnight View Post

But lock the doors, against code specified by the NFPA? Pishaw, I'll sit back having a cold one as it burns with my insurance agent on the line telling them where to send the check. They'll never know I locked the tanks against code.

Did you miss the part about leaving it unlocked when the tanks are on while camping and only locking it when valves are closed and camper not in use?

I would be on the phone with my insurance agent tho, telling them where to send the adjustor to inspect the burned out carcas that used to be my camper. Would not need to tell them where to send the check, they have my address on file.
RhoZeta is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 01:28 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
SKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoZeta View Post
Did you miss the part about leaving it unlocked when the tanks are on while camping and only locking it when valves are closed and camper not in use?
Call your insurance agent and tell them that, see what he says.

Look, whitewash it all you wish. The doors don't have locks for a reason, there are other methods to secure the tanks that don't violate NFPA guidelines.

I provided the document. The end, I'm not going to feed you any longer.
__________________
Now-2014 Sierra 346RETS 5er BUB
Then-2002 Keystone Springdale 286RLDS TT

Nights camped in 2014-28, 2015-127, 2016-10
SKnight is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 01:53 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Indymule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 644
SKnight this will be my last post on the issue because it is obvious that you get very upset if someone does not agree with you.

It is important to point out that what you sited as law is not LAW at all. It is standards and code. I understand that this is what industry uses to protect consumers but you said it is against the LAW AND THAT SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE!

You have a wonderful day.


Sent from my iPad using Forest River Forums
__________________
Jay & Maria - Camp Dog Joplin
2018 Cedar Creek Champagne 38EL
Fulltimers since May 2018!
2017 Ford F350 Crewcab Dually Diesel
Officially homeless and loving it.
Ham Callsign K9NDY
Indymule is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 03:32 PM   #14
WDK
Senior Member
 
WDK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Jacinto
Posts: 255
I believe in every state locking the propane tank is a violation and carries a fine.....though the chances of them catching you are slim....still I don't see the use in that you can do almost everything you need too tank wise on a MH from underneath if even your trying to protect it from theft....though I suppose if you have the canisters that perhaps is worth while though still illegal.

WDK
WDK is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 03:42 PM   #15
WDK
Senior Member
 
WDK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Jacinto
Posts: 255
Incidentally though I was not shown the standard where I live.....I was told this by a fire department captain who came out to inspect my coach because I did have a propane leak....though I am sure locking it is punishable if they wanted to pursue it just like that little tag on your mattress that says "do not remove" secondly if it was found to be locked and there is damage to life or property of your neighbor it's not that it would only take a second to chop it open that matters but how much the law suit is going to cost you because of the violation.

WDK
WDK is offline  
Old 01-16-2015, 05:27 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,907
SKnight: in post #2631 you quoted:

"(e) Appliances installed within vehicles shall comply with the following:
1. If in the cargo space, they shall be readily accessible
whether the vehicle is loaded or empty."


When I searched for it in your PDF, it was on page 45, not 48, under section 3.8.4. You seem to have conveniently missed the first part of section 3.8.4 on page 44:

"3-8.4.1 The term appliances as used in this subsection shall include any commercial or industrial gas-consuming device except engines."

I don't think gas bottles consume gas, they store gas.

Also, there doesn't seem to be anything that says "readily accessible" means it can't be locked.

So I'm not convinced yet.

And having seen a camper go up in flames, I'm pretty confident that no fire department will ever get to a campground before it's a smoldering heap.


__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)

2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
rockfordroo is offline  
Old 01-17-2015, 02:24 PM   #17
TGR
Senior Member
 
TGR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posts: 320
The NFPA sets rules that are adopted by the states and federal government as one of the so-called "consensus standards." NFPA 1192: Standard on Recreational Vehicles, is the standard appropriate to this discussion. The standard reads:
5.1.6.2 Securing LP-Gas Cylinder Housings.
5.1.6.2.1 Doors, hoods, domes, housings (or portions of
housings), and enclosures required to be removed or opened for
replacement of cylinders shall incorporate means for clamping
them in place to prevent them from working loose during transit.
5.1.6.2.2 Hoods or housings covering valves shall not be equipped
with locks or require special tools to open.
5.1.6.3 Valve Access Doors and Panels. Doors or panels providing access to valves shall not be equipped with locks or require tools to open.
__________________
2015 Wildcat 282 RKX
2011 F350 Lariat, 6.7 L. Diesel, 8 ft., SRW, Reese R20
TGR is offline  
Old 01-17-2015, 02:40 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Oaklevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 9,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGR View Post
The NFPA sets rules that are adopted by the states and federal government as one of the so-called "consensus standards." NFPA 1192: Standard on Recreational Vehicles, is the standard appropriate to this discussion. The standard reads:
5.1.6.2 Securing LP-Gas Cylinder Housings.
5.1.6.2.1 Doors, hoods, domes, housings (or portions of
housings), and enclosures required to be removed or opened for
replacement of cylinders shall incorporate means for clamping
them in place to prevent them from working loose during transit.
5.1.6.2.2 Hoods or housings covering valves shall not be equipped
with locks or require special tools to open.
5.1.6.3 Valve Access Doors and Panels. Doors or panels providing access to valves shall not be equipped with locks or require tools to open.
x2 Fire Marshalls can and do enforce NFPA standards and can impose fines, also some NFPA standards have also been adopted by OSHA. (Not the ones inquiring about).

As has been mentioned there is a reason the propane access door do not have locks. I'm sure if the was an injury & a locked propane door was involved I sure a lawsuit would be forthcoming.
__________________

2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
Oaklevel is online now  
Old 01-17-2015, 02:57 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Oaklevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 9,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indymule View Post
SKnight this will be my last post on the issue because it is obvious that you get very upset if someone does not agree with you.

It is important to point out that what you sited as law is not LAW at all. It is standards and code. I understand that this is what industry uses to protect consumers but you said it is against the LAW AND THAT SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE!

You have a wonderful day.


Sent from my iPad using Forest River Forums
Alot of misinformation in this entire thread............

Not trying for an argument but..........

NFPA, ANSI, and other consensus standards while it is true in themselves are not always law (Many are Law). But enforcement agencies such as Fire Marshals and OSHA can site ANY of them when the need requires it. So in effect yes they are law. OSHA of course only against employers.


__________________

2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
Oaklevel is online now  
Old 01-17-2015, 03:43 PM   #20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 26
I just duct tape the doors. No worries! LOL
1990Desert is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:11 PM.