What's wrong with my manometer?

[Walholler]

Why concern yourself with how a manometer works or doesn't work, you already know that you have a leak. I would be more concerned with finding and fixing the leak that you have. Best way to detect a leak is as mentioned already, soapy water solution in a spray bottle, turn the gas on and begin spraying each connection.

[StrangeBird22]

Had a similar problem on my 2011 Roo. Faint but noticeable gas smell when valves were open, not setting off alarm. Turns out it was the quick disconnect fitting for the outside stove. I think someone had cranked it on too tight and put a hairline crack in the female side of the fitting. Got lucky and narrowed the location by opening the cabinet that contains that hose on the inside and the smell was much stronger. Found and confirmed leak with soapy water! Good luck finding your leak!!

[adarklake]

Originally Posted by Witch Doctor

I take my hat off to you for trying, and for building one, but if you still have questions, take the unit to a propane company and have them check. Propane is nothing to play with, good advice from members, what bothers me is that you didn't know how to read one, also you have additional pressure valves at each appliance such as your gas valve for your water heater, stove and furnace. The 11" you are talking about is the pressure of your main regulator only, you need to read all the manuals for each appliance. Good Luck, and be careful playing with Propane and making adjustments just some advice, did HVAC repair for many years,

I didn't know how to read one because there was directly conflicting information on the internet that I wanted to clarify here. Regardless of knowing how to read one, the manometer served its purpose and identified there is indeed an extremely tiny leak. I have a trip this weekend and do not have time to take it to a service center, most of which are scheduling 6 weeks out at this point. Now that I know I have a leak, I can search for it and maybe tighten it so my trip is not ruined. Otherwise I just shut it off and go electric, losing my hot water and stove. Afterwards I can have it properly serviced and repaired. Heck, I'll even be able to tell them where it is.

[adarklake]

Originally Posted by Walholler

Why concern yourself with how a manometer works or doesn't work, you already know that you have a leak. I would be more concerned with finding and fixing the leak that you have. Best way to detect a leak is as mentioned already, soapy water solution in a spray bottle, turn the gas on and begin spraying each connection.

Yes, this is the priority now, I agree! Secondary is measuring the regulator pressure output, which I believe may be too high. It has been "singing" during past pre-leak usage.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by adarklake

I didn't know how to read one because there was directly conflicting information on the internet that I wanted to clarify here. Regardless of knowing how to read one, the manometer served its purpose and identified there is indeed an extremely tiny leak. I have a trip this weekend and do not have time to take it to a service center, most of which are scheduling 6 weeks out at this point. Now that I know I have a leak, I can search for it and maybe tighten it so my trip is not ruined. Otherwise I just shut it off and go electric, losing my hot water and stove. Afterwards I can have it properly serviced and repaired. Heck, I'll even be able to tell them where it is.

A manometer is not going to show you a leak, use soapy water and spray each fitting, I'm not talking about a dealer, I'm talking about a propane company that can check it, normally you just have there people check it, most of them don't even charge you. You might even be smelling bleed off from a regulator, you stated that the detector is not going off inside the unit. Like I said good luck, but propane is nothing to play with. Manometer are used to set pressures not find leaks...just my opinion.

[Just Mike]

I had to check this thread out. I wasn't sure what a manometer was, but I figured I didn't want my wife to have one! She might want a guy that scored higher on the MAN-o-meter!!!

[adarklake]

Originally Posted by Witch Doctor

A manometer is not going to show you a leak, use soapy water and spray each fitting, I'm not talking about a dealer, I'm talking about a propane company that can check it, normally you just have there people check it, most of them don't even charge you. You might even be smelling bleed off from a regulator, you stated that the detector is not going off inside the unit. Like I said good luck, but propane is nothing to play with. Manometer are used to set pressures not find leaks...just my opinion.

I think you misunderstood. The manometer was used to discover IF there was a leak. There was. The soapy spray is used to discover WHERE there is a leak. I found it!


CLOSURE:
Here are pictures of the leak, it was at the fitting of the range's regulator. To ensure a proper Armageddon (I hear there are folks on here who despise PTFE thread seal tape) I unscrewed the fitting, put some tape on it and screwed it back on. I'll reserve some space after this post for someone to tell me how wrong I am and the reasons why.

The leak just before the range regulator explains why the manometer pressure rose after shutting the tanks off.



After tightening it back together, another round of spray proved the leak was vanquished. The manometer is currently connected at a little over 8" WC (started at 14). I'll let it sit there for a few hours, but I don't expect it to move.


Please don't judge my manometer, the scale is wrong because I had bad info when constructing it!



The weekend is saved!

[Iwannacamp]

Originally Posted by Just Mike

I had to check this thread out. I wasn't sure what a manometer was, but I figured I didn't want my wife to have one! She might want a guy that scored higher on the MAN-o-meter!!!

Kinda like the stud finders at Home Depot I was looking at... I must have tried a dozen of them... and none of them worked. Just don't make stuff like they used to.

[jkoenig24]

In our new, politically correct world, that device may no longer be referred to as a "manometer"

If you start calling it a personometer, it may start giving accurate readings (but in our new "flexible world, who can really say?)

#ThisIsGettingRidiculous!

[aircommuter]

Soapy water needs some glycerin also, that will help it stick together and show the smallest of leaks. Yes you do double the reading on a manometer. I have had propane in every house I have owned in the last 45 years.

[jimmoore13]

I hope I'm not repeating...apologies if I am.

One possibility: I have a gas grill at home that has a somewhat faulty burner valve. It works fine, but if I don't shut off the propane tank, it will empty the tank over the course of a week or so. I can't smell gas leaking (outside), but the evidence is irrefutable...one of the burner valves leaks, because there are no leaks anywhere in the plumbing from the tank to the burner gallery.

So, if a faulty valve is the culprit, that opens the possibilities to your hot water heater, fridge, furnace, and stove. Time for the soapy bubbles.

No luck with the valves? Perhaps another option.
Crawling around under my camper, I see what amounts to a manifold of propane lines under my camper. That portion is all copper lines and flared copper fittings.

If that all checks out, I suggest building a "plug" for flared fittings. One will do. I'm guessing a brass flare fitting connected to a ball shutoff valve you might install in line to shutoff gas to an appliance like a hot water heater. If you get really lucky, you might get a cap to terminate a gas line. Anything to plug the line. Don't forget the pink Teflon tape. Your hardware store can help.

Using your manometer, systematically disconnect each leg of the copper mess under the camper, plug it, and check for the gradual gas loss you reported. Sooner or later you will PLUG the offending branch of this mess of pipes and isolate the branch that's leaking. If you plug a branch and the manometer reports no pressure drop, that's where the leak is.

Now, from there, find a way to adapt another flare fitting adapter to an air compressor fitting. Reduce the output pressure of your compressor to about 20 PSI...keep it low, so you don't blow out some portion of the gas line. Again start with the soapy water spray bottle. It won't be fun, but at least you've narrowed it down. Hopefully the offending leg of the system is routed through areas that are accessible.

Again, if this is repetitive or too late, sorry.

Good luck.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Iwannacamp

Kinda like the stud finders at Home Depot I was looking at... I must have tried a dozen of them... and none of them worked. Just don't make stuff like they used to.

I tell my wife that I can't use a stud finder because it just goes off constantly while I'm holding it. I find it much funnier than she does!

[adarklake]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I tell my wife that I can't use a stud finder because it just goes off constantly while I'm holding it. I find it much funnier than she does!

I carried the manometer that I built around the house proclaiming "This MAN-o-meter goes all the way to 11!" I also grunted a bit like Tim Allen from Home Improvement. The wife wasn't impressed.

[Paulie1138]

Adarklake....arrr arrr arruuuggghh!!!! More Power! Turbo charge that manometer!

[jimmoore13]

P.S.
I've found several assembly, shall we say, "mistakes" in my rig. Most egregious? A screw driven straight through the floor into the fill pipe for my fresh water tank. It was fine at first, because the screw sealed itself in the plastic pipe. But over time, the hole in the pipe enlarged and leaked the contents of my fresh tank onto the ground soon after filling it. The repair was easy enough (cut the pipe, use a dremel tool to cutoff the offending screw, and use a short length of plastic pipe and hose clamps to splice the pipe together), but the idea that someone would be screwing thru the floor in this location was ludicrous.

My point is that anywhere along the way, an installer could have done something stupid to damage the propane plumbing.

One other observation. You smell mercaptan, so why isn't the propane alarm sounding? I know from experience that the alarms are very sensitive. We once spilled wine on the floor near the alarm, and it took a LOT of cleanup effort to make it stop (the VOCs from the wine were enough to trigger it). This SUGGESTS that the leak may be "outside" the cabin space...or in ventilated space that doesn't enter the cabin.

This, of course, is a warranty (and safety) issue. Be sure to report it to Forest River regardless of whether it's a loose nut on a flare fitting (or compression fitting - which may be the case in appliances), a bad swage on the end of a propane hose, or a puncture thru a gas line (copper or hose). You may snug up a loose nut, but any other temporary repair should be addressed by the dealer for a permanent repair you can trust with your life.

I also failed to mention that the source of the leak could be on the tongue...with the regulator and/or hoses. And you can't rule out a bad propane tank. Try both tanks, and switch the automated switchover regulator to select just one or the other. Hell, if these are new tanks that came with the RV, nothing says that one of the tanks itself (or the valves on the tanks) isn't causing the problem. Every time I get mine filled, the tech who does the filling uses soapy water spray to check everything around the valve and his temporary connection to the fill equipment.

[Iwannacamp]

[QUOTE=jimmoore13;1947499]I hope I'm not repeating...apologies if I am.



If that all checks out, I suggest building a "plug" for flared fittings. One will do. I'm guessing a brass flare fitting connected to a ball shutoff valve you might install in line to shutoff gas to an appliance like a hot water heater. If you get really lucky, you might get a cap to terminate a gas line. Anything to plug the line. Don't forget the pink Teflon tape. Your hardware store can help.

You mean YELLOW tape?

[Tom48]

My Suburban stove/oven seems to have its own internal regulator. Burner Maybe not the place to test. I tested at the incoming gas line. Best place is at a little test point near the burner in the frig which is where low gas pressure usually impacts you first. Turn off screw right by the burner, then , pull the 1/8 pipe plug between the tiny valve and the burner. Put the manometer there. Open the tiny valve, let the burner come back on and measure the live working pressure there.

[adarklake]

Originally Posted by jimmoore13

One other observation. You smell mercaptan, so why isn't the propane alarm sounding? I know from experience that the alarms are very sensitive. We once spilled wine on the floor near the alarm, and it took a LOT of cleanup effort to make it stop (the VOCs from the wine were enough to trigger it). This SUGGESTS that the leak may be "outside" the cabin space...or in ventilated space that doesn't enter the cabin.

Thanks Jim, great advice. I posted some pictures of the leak (post #27) that I eventually tracked down. The leak was so slight, the gas never made it to the propane detector. As a matter of fact, the handheld propane detector that I held right up to the leak only flickered at the weakest detection LED. Mercaptan is a heck of a stink, which it should be. But the leak was not serious and has been contained. The manometer stopped dropping once the leak was plugged. The pressure loss rate prior to fixing was so tiny it had to be measured in WC/hours.


I plan on measuring at the fridge one last time, just to be certain the system is closed completely now. If it's still losing pressure, it will go back to the dealer I purchased it from for repair. For now it seems like the stove fitting just wasn't tightened enough at the factory and came slightly loose while being towed.

[jimmoore13]

[QUOTE=Iwannacamp;1947813]

Originally Posted by jimmoore13

I hope I'm not repeating...apologies if I am.



If that all checks out, I suggest building a "plug" for flared fittings. One will do. I'm guessing a brass flare fitting connected to a ball shutoff valve you might install in line to shutoff gas to an appliance like a hot water heater. If you get really lucky, you might get a cap to terminate a gas line. Anything to plug the line. Don't forget the pink Teflon tape. Your hardware store can help.

You mean YELLOW tape?

My bad. Yes, yellow tape for gas lines.

[rick42wood]

There is another way to do this and is a lot less confusing. Get a tall bottle that you can see through and a stiff straight tube. Mark the tube every half inch. Fill the bottle with 16” of water. Insert the tube to the bottom of the bottle. Connect a tube to it and to the point you want to measure. Turn on the propane. There should be nothing coming from the bottom of the tube. Slowly raise the tube until a bubble comes from the bottom of the tube. When this happens the depth of the tube in the water is the pressure reading. You could also use a tub or garbage can big enough to see when the bubble “breaks”. Keep in mind though, you are releasing propane into the air when the tube begins to bubble.