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Old 06-21-2013, 12:44 PM   #1
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36B4 The show so far...

After 3 years of looking at floor plans which offered us an upgrade from our Jayco Eagle Super Lite 304BHK, we found that the 36B4 was the only floor plan that offered 1.5 Bath, four wide bunks, clear space in bunk room (no center furniture/closet), outside kitchen, level-up and hydraulic slides. There were a few close fits, but when you throw in the wall construction, Trail-Air pinbox, Onan LP generator, 4 golf cart batteries, residential electric fridge, stacked W/D hookups, roomy shower with glass sliding door, king luxury matress all out of the factory, it was the only choice. If we had a Freightliner tow vehicle, we might have gone with the DRV Manhattan with 2 full baths, 3 axles, and 43 feet in length, but we would have spent another $50k and that's before operating costs.

The next trick was finding a 36B4. Because the Cedar Creek line is mostly sold to couples with a pet or two, Cedar Creek dealers tend to shy away from a bunk house and usually stock the Silverback bunkhouse over the Cedar Creek. Then to find a unit at all was half way across the country and most were configured differently than we wanted (couches where bunks should be, wrong refrig, etc.) and usually sold pretty quickly. We got serious about a purchase last year, but waited until early 2013 to go shopping.

After months of web surfing, I decided to contact Forest River directly. A representative there was very nice, directed me to the closest dealer and even sent me the 4 purchase orders of 36B4s that she knew were not sold yet. Imagine, a world-wide inventory of 4. 2 of the 4 were special orders (these were ordered but not picked up yet and were not for sale). The other two were close fits but just not quite what we wanted.

We ended up calling the dealer that FR had suggested (nearly 300 miles away) and taking a weekend to go visit. Nice small dealer - dealt with the owner and his wife. They showed us an 2012 and 2013 model but neither were a 36B4. We sat down, and went over the options we wanted and he gave us a price that was not the lowest, but in the ball park of the big web dealers' quotes.

We went home, gave it some thought and placed the order with a deposit of $2000. We were quoted 6 weeks until it left the factory. At exactly 6 weeks it left the factory and was picked up by the delivery company. There it sat for weeks. We contacted the dealer, we contacted Cedar Creek and after missing several weekends that we had planned to pick up our unit, it came down to the wire just before the Memorial Day weekend.

We got a call on that Tuesday that our rig had arrived at the dealer. We packed up all our camper gear, put it in the back of our truck and headed there on Thursday, stayed in a Hotel, and went to get it the next day. Kind of weird paying for a Hotel room just before buying one on wheels.

To be continued...
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:19 PM   #2
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... Continued.

While we were waiting for our 36B4 to be built, I ordered a SuperGlide #4400, the Superrails, Lift Kit, and Capture Plate to go with it. Installation went fine. Very happy with the Pullrite stuff. It has already saved my bacon - the auto slide feature allowed me to get away with 5th wheel rookie move#2 - I left the tailgate down while moving the rig from one camp site to another and even with some tight turning there was no damage to the rig.

Back to the story... Friday morning we were eating breakfast and the dealer sent a text with a photo of our new rig. It was hard to eat slowly after that. We picked up a tank of diesel and headed to the dealer. When we showed up, the dealer came out and we started looking. It was really strange to actually see a 36B4 in person after looking at a couple hundred photos on line. It had all the stuff we ordered and looked ok, but I was expecting a bit more of a formal checklist-driven walk through. He went over some things that I didn't know, and went over some things that seemed to show me that his knowledge of the systems was limited. Very nice guy, but I seemed to know a bit more about the features - maybe because of this forum.

We were then called into the office to sign papers, given keys, and they put our paper plates on. I then went out and installed the SuperGlide capture plate on the pin box. The rest of the family moved our boxes of stuff from the pickup to the trailer and began moving in. I got the bike rack off the pickup and put it on the trailer with and adapter. The new Cedar Creeks have a 1-1/4" receiver that is kind of flimsy.

Eventually we were ready to hitch up for the first time. In order to do this we had to get the pin the right height. The dealer and his son got involved and the son (a bit more comfortable with the hydraulics) got the pin the right height and I backed up slowly (never having done this before). I lined it up perfectly, but forgot to open the hitch (5th wheel rookie move #1). Another try with the hitch open and click, we were connected.

We lowered the trailer weight onto the truck and I checked three things: 1) is the trailer level? Yes, according to the Level up system it was dead on center level. 2) Was there enough clearance around the bed of the truck? Yes, with the pullrite 3" lift bars, we had ample clearance all the way around. 3) What do the springs look like on the truck? When I ordered my GMC, I selected the heavy weight overload springs for just this reason. The extra springs were just touching the overload pads that stick out from the frame. When I put the superrails in for the hitch, I followed the instructions and put these pads back on, sandwiching the superrails between the pads and the frame.

Pulled the extending mirrors out, dropped the shore power, pulled in the slides and the stairs, closed the Retrax Pro roll up bed cover a bit - just enough clearance for the pin box to move a bit - and away we went. Next stop WalMart for food.

to be continued...
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:28 PM   #3
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... Continued.

Got onto the interstate and brought it up to 65 mph to see what pulling a 5th wheel was like for the first time. I was used to being wagged by the trailer - all this side-to-side motion was gone. I set the cruise control to 70 and thought to myself - why have I waited all these years to get a 5th wheel? It took some getting used to seeing the trailer that close behind the truck, but the Duramax and Allison acted no differently. A double FedEx Freight truck went by me at about 80 so I stepped up the cruise control to the speed limit of 75 to see how things would roll.

After basking in the glory of our new purchase for a few miles, and watching the open road move by us for a few miles, I noticed a decent grade coming up. The road went from 2 lanes in our direction to 3 or 4 lanes on the way up. The next thing I noticed was us passing the same FedEx double that had just passed us a bit earlier.

Got to WalMart and pulled into the entrance, and one turn later felt the trailer trying to keep us from moving. I looked back at the break-away and sure enough we had pulled the cable by accident. I jumped out (in the middle of parking lot traffic) put the plunger back in and found a good place to park.

With the amount of movement and the length of the standard cable on the switch, the excess had been caught in the hitch mount and then pulled the plunger out. ,,, since then I found a coiled cable from Fastway Trailer Products and it fixed this,,, We got our provisions, ate some lunch and got on the road.

On the way from Cody to the East entrance to Yellowstone National Park we saw more deer than I have seen in my life. Every wheat field on both sides of the road were 50 to a 100 deer each munching on the new wheat shoots. After about 10 miles of fields it became unreal. It was like we had found the source of all the deer in Wyoming.

We got to our destination for the night about 9:00 pm - Colter Bay Village RV Park on Jackson Lake in Teton National Park. We got our favorite spot (not telling the site number), pulled in and dropped the landing gear, disconnected the truck and tried the Auto Level button for the first time. It was fun to watch. It lowers the front end just below level, waits a second or two, then drops the rear jacks on one side, waits a second or two, then drops the rear jacks on the other side, waits, then goes through the 3 hydraulic loops once or twice more. Then it beeps at you and displays "Level Successful!"

Hooked up and went to bed. The next morning all our fiends we camp there with came by to see the new rig. It was really fun sharing our new exciting rig with our good friends. As I showed them things, I kept finding out something new - one time it was a new light switch, another it was the remote for the fireplace, another was the location of the rear gate valves.

to be continued...
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:21 PM   #4
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enjoy your new unit!
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:00 AM   #5
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... Continued.

Still in our favorite campground, in our favorite spot in view of the eastern side of the Teton Mountains with Jackson Lake below them, we soon realize (our kids put down the personal electronic devices and started to see things) that Forest River forgot to put a toilet paper holder in the half bath. We sent an email to our dealer and are still waiting. If I find one on-line, we will just order it and send in the bill. If this is all we find wrong, it will be a great shake-down.

The Colter Bay Campground had some slope to it and although most of the sites are fairly level, some are off by about 4 to 6 inches from one side of the trailer to the other. In the past, I brought plenty of dimensional lumber to drive the trailer onto. With the Level-Up, I thought I would not need this lumber and left it at home. The Level up got us within a quarter bubble of level (good enough to not notice) before the rams on the downhill side were fully extended, but my engineering tendencies get to me and I start thinking about how to best compensate for these situations.

The temperature at night got down to 28 deg. F at night, but the sun was out in the day, making our stay one of the better Teton Memorial days. We have been snowed in the last two, we got out by waiting a day both times. The road back to home goes over the continental divide in Yellowstone. Anyway, we put the tank mat heaters on and had no issues.

Another adjustment was the location of the tank dump outlet. On our previous rigs, the Valterra port was just behind the trailer wheels and I counted on this when I parked. The 36B4 has its outlet just in front of the trailer wheels. This left me with just barely enough hose to get to the sewer connection. I hope I get used to this soon. I like to use as little hose as possible and typically park with the sewer pipe lined up so I can use just the short hose.

Another parking related change was the location of the outside kitchen. The location did not change too much (back end - door side), but with the bunk slide moving out, it makes the space needed much greater. The hatch would not open because there was a group of pine trees about a foot from side of the bunk slide. This made using the outside BBQ a no-go as the mount and quick connect for the LP are right there. Earlier model years had a drop out 2-burnner cook top in that position. In 2014 the cook-top was replaced with a very nice portable BBQ (piezo start, temperature gauge in lid, mounts on outside rail) and the cabinets are now aluminum for weather proofing.

While giving a tour of the utility bay, I discovered a switch on the right side of the bay that turns on the LED external lights that are in the front fiberglass bubble toward the hitch. These will come in handy when trying to hitch up in the dark (early mornings in the fall and early spring) now that I know where the switch is.

After a very nice stay, we were ready to go home with our new rig. When it came time to pull the gates, I followed the labeling and did my best. There are 3 valves handles in the bay and two more at the rear under the bunk slide. Still not sure what the configuration is of the tanks and the valves. I was able to figure out the black water spray connections (one for each black tank) and easily connects to the outside shower hose allowing you to black water rinse with hot or cold water. A quick connect of some sort might be handy here. It sure was nice to have a pistol hose nozzle to rinse off the hoses, etc.

Now for the drive home. We left about 11:00 am and the beautiful scenery eases the pain of the last day of vacation. When we get over the pass and find an empty pullout, we ease over, park and have lunch by the river in Yellowstone. In the past we have eaten lunch at a 3-5 degree tilt as these pullouts are sloped to drain off the snow melt away from the road. Once we parked, I adjusted the hydraulic slide valves and ran only the main slide out. This made the trailer lean even more. I then dropped the low side level-up hydraulic pistons down and got us level. Having this feature let us eat lunch with a beautiful view and enjoy being level. One of the kids wanted spaghetti-ohs. My wife started to go for a metal pan and soon realized we could pop them in the microwave. A couple of switches later, we had LP making 110, and 110 making hot spaghetti-ohs.

I think we are going to get ourselves really spoiled here. No fight for the bathroom, level lunch with 110 power, wow life is good!

Got home, backed it into our drive way in one shot and we are unhitched and level. The mileage for the maiden voyage with lots of >6500 foot elevation, mountain driving - 11 mpg. Plugged it into our 30 amp shore power outlet - need to upgrade this to 50 amp now. The list of adjustments, fixes, and add-ons begins.

...to be continued.
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Old 07-20-2013, 02:29 PM   #6
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...Continued.

Now that we were back at our base camp, I started working on the list of stuff that I wished I could have done before our first trip. I did a few little fixes like the strike plate on the master bedroom was not set into the door frame causing the door knob to bind. A little chisel work an we are able to close the door without a lot of muscle.

I also installed a 50 amp SurgeGuard 40240 into the front bay on the shore power line. I thought about putting it closer to the where the shore power enters the rig, but that area has a lot of plumbing and I wanted to keep it in a place I could get to the wire easier. The control/display panel for the 40240 was installed next to the ceiling fan switch, right above the main control panel.

Putting the main box in place was simple. I mounted the box next to the auto transfer switch in a horizontal orientation in line with the existing 6-3 power line. The back wall of the front bay is thick plywood which is easy to put screws into without the fear of damage. Once the box was mounted, I removed shore power (I actually hid the shore power line so nobody came by and plugged it in), cut through the power cable, stripped the ends (Lowes sells a 6 gage wire stripper), and connected them to the surgeguard. The remote panel is connected with what looks like an old school phone wire. I ran the wire over toward the batteries, through a 1/4" hole in the wall between the hydraulic pump space and the basement storage space. I then ran it along another bundle of wires just above the cargo door to the utility space where the dirt devil lives.

To get the wire fed up behind the control panel wall, I unscrewed the control panel, ran a 3' fiberglass fish rod down the wall, taped the wire end to the fish rod, and pulled it back up through the wall. I then located where I wanted the display - about eye level so I could read the voltage and current on each line without bending over - cut a hole in the wall and mounted the remote display. Everything worked, so I cleaned up the dust and screwed the main panel back into the wall. If you have any questions about this install, just let me know. It took some figuring but I am willing to share.

To help with the leveling issue, I decided to make 8 blocks that would fit under the level up feet. I purchased a couple of 8 foot 2x12s at the Home Depot and cut them up into squares - about 11x11 inches. I then glued them in pairs with grain going at 90 degrees between the pairs - kind of like really thick plywood. I ended up with 8 blocks which were 3 inches thick and very strong. I then marked and cut with a band saw them into disks about 10.5" in diameter and drilled a 1" hole in the centers. I sanded and painted them to match the rig color and made 2 stands using a thick wooden base with a 3/4" PVC pipe in the center - kind of a overgrown receipt spindle. I have one stand on each side of the rig just inside the cargo doors with 4 disks on each spindle. Sometimes 6 of them are used on the low side, but usually I end up with 3-4 on each side due to front back slope of the ground at the campsite. I have never stacked them higher than two disks, but leveling has been much easier with these disks.

While parked next to our home, I left the fantastic fan on to keep the trailer from getting too hot inside. I figured if it rains the sensor will close the vent and all will be good. The day after a pretty strong rainstorm, I walked into the trailer and found a large puddle of water in the middle of the vinyl floor. I looked up and could see if was from the vent being open. I complained to the dealer that the fan was defective, got the usually response, and went to investigating. I went up on the roof with some water and dripped some on the little sensor. The vent stayed open. I then went on the web and read the instruction manual for fan and found out there is a switch to defeat the rain sensor on the inside of the fan - it is waayyyyyy up there and my weak eyesight didn't even catch that there was a switch there. I got a ladder (seems weird to put up a large folding ladder inside a trailer) climbed up and flicked the switch. Then I went up to the roof and put a tiny amount of water on the sensor and the vent closed. As soon as the water evaporated the vent opened. Problem solved, dealer informed - "I had no idea" he says. My only question is why this was set to the off position at the manufacturer. Cedar Creek might want to add this to the QC checklist.

Our next trip was a 3 night stay at a local reservoir with no hook-ups. We will get to learn all about dry camping with our new rig. My main concern is the battery life with the electric fridge.

...to be continued...
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Old 07-20-2013, 03:24 PM   #7
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Comment on the Battery Life with Electric Fridge - Dry camping at the Race track last week - The batteries last 1.5 days before I really chickened out and ran the generator... After a day and half the battery meter was still reading 2/3 but it was soo hot we wanted the AC.

I did install a new Progressive Dynamics Charger/Converter to replace the stock WFCO and it charges the batteries much quicker and maintain them better. (My opinion)

Short answer - I am no longer worried about the batteries lasting even 2-3 days (no heater in use just lights) without any real problems.

Safe Travels
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:34 PM   #8
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Walter, Thanks for the heads up on battery life. I calculated the run time for the fridge compressor would be about 15 hours. With it cycling on and off every once in a while to hold temperature, I put your 1.5 days right in the ball park. Thanks again.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:19 AM   #9
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...continued.

Our first dry camp trip was very soon after our maiden trip, so I made a trip to the local RV dump to make sure the tanks were empty at the start. I have learned a few things since then about the tanks. Anyway, it was fun to watch folks watch me use the black tank flush and then use the level up to lift the low side of the trailer to get the last of the tanks empty. It went fairly well, so I thought.

Once we pulled into the local "recreation.gov" campground, the host saw our rig and came over to chat. He was amazed at all the features and how nice it looked. He had the same pull rig and we had quite the chat - really nice guy. Unhooked, leveled and slides out while chatting with him. Couldn't do that with the old rig.

The site is about 100 feet from the reservoir and has plenty of room. We got to use the outside kitchen BBQ, and it worked fine. Two comments to Cedar Creek on the 2014 model: 1) swapping out the wood and laminate cabinets for the aluminum metal ones - great upgrade - we especially like the deep sink and the LED accent light strips on the sides. 2) not so sure about the BBQ instead of a 2-burner stove top - the wife feels we got short changed on that deal. I like the BBQ, but I don't like how short the quick-disconnect LP hose is. You have to route it under the bottom flange to reach the BBQ and you all know how that bottom flange can be a sharp edge. Our last rig had the 2-burner cooktop that slid out. Now the wife wants me to engineer and build something to take its place. No thanks on the extra work.

The answer to the big question about battery life is that we ran the generator once in the evening and once in the mid morning each day. With 4 6 volt Golf Cart batteries, I am afraid I will need a higher power converter so that I don't have to run the generator as long to charge up. Walter 38FLCamper made the switch to a Progressive Dynamics Charger/Converter and had better charge times. Anybody have other suggestions or confirmation? As is, the charge time is a couple hours just to make it worth turning the generator on. This clearly does not bring the battery to full. I am sure with 5 of us and running the heater at night we used some battery for more than just the fridge and lights.

The good part is that we had a Generator, the bad part is that we burnt some Propane. Over our 3 night stay we used both tanks. At one point the wife accidentally turned on both AC units, while running the microwave and charging the batteries. I had left the hot water heater AC switch on and the generator kicked its breaker. I found it under the front shroud, reset it and turn the ACs on one at a time and it worked fine. (by the way, the thermostat takes some getting used to) When I went to put the shroud back on, it just wouldn't go back on. I looked down the gap between the generator and the front of the storage bay and found a zip tie had its head in the way inside the generator. I rotated the zip tie around its bundle so that the head was out of the way. This let the shroud go right into its groove.

Showers, flushing, and dishes ran us through our fresh water and we ran dry on the last day. I later discovered that it does take some time for all the water to drain from the tanks. The bath gray tank filled up to 2/3rds fairly quickly and it was most likely due to the shower head not having a shut off valve. This is a must have when trying to save water and we are really surprised it was missing. A trip to the store and about $5 will fix that. Not a big deal, but at some point these little deals start to add up.

I used a 5 gallon water jug to get some more fresh water and used the winterization line to get it into the rig. Pumped it through the outside shower line and into the holding tank. Two trips to the water tap and we were back in business.

All-in-all this was the most comfortable dry camping we have ever done. Each time we use the rig we learn something new and with a few more adjustments, we should have the new rig figured out. There is nothing like enjoying smores at the campfire and then a few steps away having all that luxury.

Once home from this trip, the countdown start to our big trip of the year - lots of prep work for this one.

...to be continued...
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:15 AM   #10
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...continued.

With 2 short stays in our new rig - one full hookup and one dry camp - we are now a lot more prepared to set off on our 16 day "big trip" for the year. And like any new rig, there is always something to add, fix or do maintenance on.

Since there has been no action from our dealer on the missing TP holder in the half bath, I did some web surfing and found an exact match to the one in the master bath. It was located on a site by Creative Products Group of Elkhart IN and the style of the TP holder on 2014 Cedar Creek is called the Alexandria Collection, Satin Nickel. The dealer was good about reimbursement for this purchase. I mounted the holder on the side of the vanity and we are good.

The king bed has an outlet near the bath side of the bed, but there is no outlet on the closet side. I purchased an outlet strip with USB chargers built in - $10 at WalMart - just inside the closet and ran an extension cord inside the closet over to where the W/D power outlet is. This puts an outlet within reach of the shelves on both sides of the bed.

Inside the shower, I mounted our usual set of Command Strip hooks for hanging swim suits and wet towels. These have waterproof command strips (they are light blue) and hold up well if you use some alcohol to clean the surfaces before you stick them up. Command Strip also makes a great water-proof basket that holds shampoo and all those great potions needed in the shower. When you travel, they don't bounce around the shower.

The need for a good clock led us to a digital backlit unit with inside and outside temps. Because of the back light feature, the batteries will need to be replace about once a year. I mounted this with four Command Strip Velcro pads. These are designed to hang pictures, but they did a great job on the somewhat heavy clock.

Before we make a big trip I like to check he water levels on the battery. Good thing I did, I put a total of a gallon of distilled water in the 4 golf carts batteries. This seems a bit too low and I have a hunch that these were not checked at the dealer or the has a different opinion about how much water should be in the cells. I pulled up the manufacturers recommendation and it was 1/8" below the vent cap. That is where I put them.

Thanks to a great thread on Tank dumping on the Forum, I learned about putting the Valterra valve on the drain pipe and then the cap on the valve. This is about a $20 upgrade that keeps the heated/pressurized drain pipe volume from giving you a black water spritz when you crack the cap to dump. Another related lesson learned was to get the 45 degree, see-through pipe from Valterra and connect this to the terminal valve and then the drain pipe to it. This give the drain pipe a strain relief and, more importantly, gives you valuable information about what is draining and how much is coming out. This I have found very important when trying to get a complete drain before a travel day.

We purchased a 26" TV with a built in DVD player for the Bunk room. I used the included base as the primary support. I then mounted a standard bracket on a piece of wood that I screwed to the studs on either side of the window. This standard keystone style bracket is only there to keep the TV from moving around. The weight is all on the TVs pedestal. By unlatching the keystone bracket (a single screw) the whole TV lifts out if not wanted. I also added a new AC outlet with USB chargers built in. Want happy kids, make sure they have USB chargers available.

While working in the front bedroom I noticed the closet LED stopped working. Called the manufacturer and they sent a replacement. Put it in and we are back in the light. The details on this are in another thread.

To be continued...
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