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10-27-2013, 12:02 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Mb
Posts: 62
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GVWR Silverback vs Wildcat
Have been looking to upgrade 5er to meet our changing needs for a trailer. Basically longer trips with some snowbirding down south in the winter. Had been considering the the Wildcat 327 or 333 as we like the floorplan however the GVWR is only 1500# over the dry wt. After propane, battery, some options and our stuff I think we would be pushing the limits. The new floorplan of the Silverback 33RL with similar dry wts to the Wildcat but much higher GVWR are making me rethink. The bigger shower is a must have.
So my question is what goes into the construction of these trailers that more than doubles the carry capacity?
Wish the FR website would post a simple spreadsheet showing comparisons of their various product lines. I.e. Frames, axles, insulation, etc. the nuts and bolts, not the lipstick, if you know what I mean.
Have posted a similar question on the "Wildcat, Ask the Factory" post. Not sure if there is a "Wildcat Chris" representing the Mfg on this site but I'm sure there is enough expertise here to give me some feedback.
__________________
Bruce & Lori, both Retired, Charli (60 lb lap dog)
2011 F350, KR, 6.7L PSD, 6 1/2' box
2015 Mountaineer 331RLT
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10-27-2013, 04:45 PM
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#2
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Always Learning
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,888
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At a minimum, the axles under it are often times the limiting factor. The lower GVWR comes from lower rated axles.
However, Herk talked at length with an engineer at one of the manufacturers. They also indicated that other things go into the ratings such as frames and walls (so he couldn't just swap axles and suddenly have 2,000 pounds more capacity).
IMO, 1,500 would be a challenge to keep from going over.
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
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10-27-2013, 08:16 PM
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,327
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Very strange...with an exception or two, the Wildcat eXtraLite campers have more carrying capacity than the regular Wildcat product line. Who would have thought that!
Dave
__________________
Nights camped in 2013 - 55, 2014 - 105, 2015 - 63
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10-28-2013, 07:19 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jefferson County, MO
Posts: 5,449
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I'm not going to bash a FR product so as a previous owner of two Wildcats and now a Silverback owner, buy the Silverback.
__________________
Bob and Joyce
2013 CC Silverback 29RL
2010 Ford F250 XL Crew Cab 6.4 liter diesel
ATU Local 788
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10-28-2013, 08:42 AM
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#5
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Campfire Master
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South East Michigan
Posts: 437
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I wonder what changed since the intro of the 327CK. I have one and the brochure at the time listed the CCC as 1971lbs. Haven't had any problems with either of the Wildcats I've owned....but the Silverback is one fine unit.
John
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10-28-2013, 09:04 AM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Mb
Posts: 62
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They have made some minor layout changes, some additional options and a major change with a new frame. From the comments on the frame MFG website it sounds like the new frame should be stronger and lighter which you would think would improve the CCC. What's ironic is the new frame is a "drop frame" so there is more space in the basement to carry stuff yet the CCC is reduced.
New specs are: Pin 1815; dry 10410; GVWR 11,999; CCC 1446. Can't remember the old specs but sounds like its a bit heavier, especially on the pin and CCC is reduced. AVID did you weigh your unit fully loaded. Would be interested in your results
With various options that we would want the CCC would probably be reduced to 1000# for our stuff. After weighing our trailer this past summer I was surprised how much our stuff weighs.
My focus is moving to the Silverback or one of the Heartland products, Sundance or Elkridge.
__________________
Bruce & Lori, both Retired, Charli (60 lb lap dog)
2011 F350, KR, 6.7L PSD, 6 1/2' box
2015 Mountaineer 331RLT
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10-28-2013, 09:35 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jefferson County, MO
Posts: 5,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli
They have made some minor layout changes, some additional options and a major change with a new frame. From the comments on the frame MFG website it sounds like the new frame should be stronger and lighter which you would think would improve the CCC. What's ironic is the new frame is a "drop frame" so there is more space in the basement to carry stuff yet the CCC is reduced.
New specs are: Pin 1815; dry 10410; GVWR 11,999; CCC 1446. Can't remember the old specs but sounds like its a bit heavier, especially on the pin and CCC is reduced. AVID did you weigh your unit fully loaded. Would be interested in your results
With various options that we would want the CCC would probably be reduced to 1000# for our stuff. After weighing our trailer this past summer I was surprised how much our stuff weighs.
My focus is moving to the Silverback or one of the Heartland products, Sundance or Elkridge.
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As you do your research with other brands of trailers pay attention to any posts about delamination and then look for posts about delamination with Silverbacks.
__________________
Bob and Joyce
2013 CC Silverback 29RL
2010 Ford F250 XL Crew Cab 6.4 liter diesel
ATU Local 788
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10-28-2013, 09:56 AM
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#8
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,327
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Bob...are the Silverbacks 'hung fiberglass' construction for the exterior walls, same as the Cedar Creeks?
Dave
__________________
Nights camped in 2013 - 55, 2014 - 105, 2015 - 63
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10-28-2013, 11:26 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jefferson County, MO
Posts: 5,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Monica
Bob...are the Silverbacks 'hung fiberglass' construction for the exterior walls, same as the Cedar Creeks?
Dave
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Yes they are Dave, but it's not just the hung fiberglass that makes a big difference. The skeletal structure of the Silverback is like the high end trailers too. I guess it's obvious that I'm hooked on Cedar Creek products.
__________________
Bob and Joyce
2013 CC Silverback 29RL
2010 Ford F250 XL Crew Cab 6.4 liter diesel
ATU Local 788
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10-28-2013, 03:40 PM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Mb
Posts: 62
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So Dave, educate me. Is hung different than laminated? Are there other manufacturing processes? I assume, based on your comments that hung is the best method but why? Does this eliminate the famous "delamination"
__________________
Bruce & Lori, both Retired, Charli (60 lb lap dog)
2011 F350, KR, 6.7L PSD, 6 1/2' box
2015 Mountaineer 331RLT
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10-28-2013, 06:59 PM
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#11
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JAYCO Representative
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Wildcat Plant - Elkhart, IN
Posts: 808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli
Have posted a similar question on the "Wildcat, Ask the Factory" post. Not sure if there is a "Wildcat Chris" representing the Mfg on this site but I'm sure there is enough expertise here to give me some feedback.
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I replied in the Wildcat section... more to come on this, but over in Wildcat country and not here in the land of Cedar Creek:
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...tml#post489427
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10-28-2013, 07:11 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Alaska
Posts: 239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli
So Dave, educate me. Is hung different than laminated? Are there other manufacturing processes? I assume, based on your comments that hung is the best method but why? Does this eliminate the famous "delamination"
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Here's a link from CC that describes the construction methods:
http://www.forestriverinc.com/downlo...cktoBasics.pdf
The CC construction method was one of the primary reasons we chose to go with a CC vs. other manufactures. It does eliminate typical delam problems that you may experience over time with laminate construction.
__________________
2014 CC 34RLSA
2013 RAM 3500 Laramie CC SB 4x4 CTD
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10-28-2013, 07:22 PM
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#13
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Certified Curmudgeon
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Here
Posts: 3,999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli
So Dave, educate me. Is hung different than laminated? Are there other manufacturing processes? I assume, based on your comments that hung is the best method but why? Does this eliminate the famous "delamination"
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Dave's not here but here is what my understanding of the processes are:
Laminate - A thin sheet of resin gelcoat is applied to a backing, usually luan, by rolling it. Jayco uses a vacuum bonding process thought to be superior.
Laminated Wall - The laminate is backed by foam block and an inner backing thereby creating a solid structure. This method is used for structural integrity in place of full framed wall.
Gelcoat - A liquid material, epoxy or poly-resin, used over a composite to create a smooth, shiny surface.
Hung Fiberglass - A wall that is applied to a full frame. The fiberglass is much thicker and it is not a laminate although it may have a backer that the fiberglass is applied directly on.
The big differences from my perspective are structural integrity, durability and ease of repair.
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Mike Dropped
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10-28-2013, 07:55 PM
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#14
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli
So Dave, educate me. Is hung different than laminated? Are there other manufacturing processes? I assume, based on your comments that hung is the best method but why? Does this eliminate the famous "delamination"
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I see some good info has been provided on laminated vs hung wall construction that should answer your question. The hung wall construction is usually found on the higher-end RVs were the additional cost of construction isn't as much an issue.
Dave
__________________
Nights camped in 2013 - 55, 2014 - 105, 2015 - 63
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10-28-2013, 09:58 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West St. Paul, Manitoba
Posts: 886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charli
They have made some minor layout changes, some additional options and a major change with a new frame. From the comments on the frame MFG website it sounds like the new frame should be stronger and lighter which you would think would improve the CCC. What's ironic is the new frame is a "drop frame" so there is more space in the basement to carry stuff yet the CCC is reduced.
New specs are: Pin 1815; dry 10410; GVWR 11,999; CCC 1446. Can't remember the old specs but sounds like its a bit heavier, especially on the pin and CCC is reduced. AVID did you weigh your unit fully loaded. Would be interested in your results
With various options that we would want the CCC would probably be reduced to 1000# for our stuff. After weighing our trailer this past summer I was surprised how much our stuff weighs.
My focus is moving to the Silverback or one of the Heartland products, Sundance or Elkridge.
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Charli, don't mean to rain on your parade, just a head's up. I also have a 2008 Ram Laramie mega cab CTD. I went to the ram body builder site after the fact, meaning after we bought our silverback and was surprised to learn that the payload on our truck is only 1580 lbs.!! Yours will be slightly more due to being a quad cab. My solution, firestone ride rite airbags, it makes it handle very well, but the numbers??
__________________
Of all the things I've lost in my life the thing I miss the most is my mind!
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10-28-2013, 11:30 PM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Mb
Posts: 62
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Thanks for all the great info. Keep it coming. I think I am becoming a Silverback convert. The construction techniques seem to be a cut above. The CC is too heavy for my TV and too many $'s for my wallet but nice to see I can get basically the same construction quality on the SB.
Prairiecamper, we are neighbours and have PM'd before. Like you I may be heading south to make my purchase unless I can get Classic Trailer sales to come close. Where did you buy yours. Don't worry I have my umbrella out. The payload shown on my door plate is about 1950. Went to the scales this summer and with the truck loaded, DW, hitch, dog etc I had about 1350# of payload left for my pin. Hooked up my 1/2T towable 5er and was 500# over my GVWR but had lots of room left on my axles. What a joke! Don't want to turn this into a wt discussion but Airbags and possibly deletes and tuner are in my future. You'll be able to tell my rig. It will be the one with the black smoke coming out the back.
__________________
Bruce & Lori, both Retired, Charli (60 lb lap dog)
2011 F350, KR, 6.7L PSD, 6 1/2' box
2015 Mountaineer 331RLT
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10-29-2013, 10:06 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West St. Paul, Manitoba
Posts: 886
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We bought ours at Jeff Couchs R.V. just north of Cinncinati Ohio, last year about this time, but remember the the Dollar was about at par. It's also approx 2000 kms. one way. The payload is a joke considering the GAWR is 6000 lbs. However love the truck and the silverback, what part of YWG are you in?
__________________
Of all the things I've lost in my life the thing I miss the most is my mind!
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10-29-2013, 11:39 PM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Mb
Posts: 62
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Silverbacks' cathedral ceilings are a nice touch but I have read that if pulling the slide in when it is, or has, been raining you end up getting water dripping off the edges of the slide roof and onto the interior floor or furniture. Is this fixable or simply a function of the design that you have to live with by mopping up the water. You'd think the seals would act like a squeegee keeping most, if not all, of the water on the outside.
__________________
Bruce & Lori, both Retired, Charli (60 lb lap dog)
2011 F350, KR, 6.7L PSD, 6 1/2' box
2015 Mountaineer 331RLT
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10-30-2013, 02:57 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 320
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On a different post someone put on some small gutters and it works great. I have to find the posting again so I can look into it. So far I have been lucky and its not raining on those days.
__________________
2004 Dodge Ram 2500HD Cummins
2017 Keystone Montana 3820 FK
2009 Harley Davidson Ultra Glide
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10-30-2013, 05:52 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jefferson County, MO
Posts: 5,449
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You have to keep in mind that the Silverback and the Wildcat are at two different price points with the Wildcat being considerably less expensive.
__________________
Bob and Joyce
2013 CC Silverback 29RL
2010 Ford F250 XL Crew Cab 6.4 liter diesel
ATU Local 788
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