Loose Lug Nut Concerns

[gasa765]

We bought a 2008 Silverback 30LSA in Dec. We had tires replaced and installed them ourselves without a torque wrench. On our first trip out the driver side front wheel came off when all the studs sheared off. We had the studs replaced. And, had them torqued to 100lbs. However, been a little gun shy since losing the wheel and have been stopping to check the lugs every 50 miles or so. A few on a couple wheels have been a little loose. We just had all lugs replaced with a little shorter ones and used some loctite.
Is it normal for lugs to be a little loose? What's causing this? Or, am I being over paranoid?
Thanks

[fonzie]

No, nuts should not be loose. Buy a torque wrench and torque them yourself.

[gasa765]

I've torqued them to the 100 lbs. The concern is why are some of them loosening up?

[fonzie]

There could be many reasons:

Loose Wheel Nuts - Causes and Effects, News Articles

[SKnight]

There's several reasons, rust on the hub contact points, the studs settling into the hub, excessive vibration, etc.

The wheel you lost is whats concerning me. Ok, you installed the wheels without a torque wrench. Either they were all left loose which beat the studs out or a little too tight, one, then another popped, then all of them went.

I'd be wary of the studs fatiguing and giving out. Any 1/2" stud should be good to 100 pounds easily, if they keep coming loose and needing tightened up the stud is likely stretching and about to give out.

Probably not cheap but I'd give thought to replacing the remaining studs, just in case.

[OldCoot]

If they are steel wheels, I would suspect the studs you replaced are not seated. If they are alum wheels, it takes at least 3 or 4 times re-torqueing with 50-75 miles between re-torqueing to get the lug nuts seated.

On my last 2 trailers with alum wheels, I left the hubcaps off for the first trip over 100 miles and stopped every 40-50 miles and re-torqued them. Last time was when we stopped at the cg and checked them and none moved, so I reinstalled the hub caps. I always check them before leaving the house.

[gasa765]

Thanks for the input. They are aluminum wheels and I do plan on stopping and checking them every 50 miles or so on the way home. Our first leg is about 250 miles so I'll stop a few times and check them. Hope all will be ok. When we get home plan on having axles, springs, shocks and frame checked for wear and alignment. Can't have a rig I don't have confidence in that we can move down the road safely.

[lbrjet]

There is a sticker on my trailer that says to check at 50, 100, 200 and then prior to each trip. It took mine about 2000 miles before 0 of 20 lugs had no movement. I just replaced my tires at 9K and am now starting all over again. I have aluminum rims and torque to 100. Nothing was ever very loose, but it took a long time before they all completely seated. I expect the same this time around.

[gasa765]

I need a phone number for FR to discuss this. Anyone have a number?

[Witch Doctor]

here's all FR phone #'s........

[Duckogram]

Where to begin...
Loctite on wheel studs. Not appropriate for a number of reasons.
Wheel nut torque specs are based on Dry, Clean threads.
Loctite will lubricate the threads until it sets (blue or red) then
it will adversely affect re-torquing.

Shorter studs. Not Appropriate Stud length is important.

Torquing disturbed and undisturbed wheels.
There is a proper procedure for that. Find that here:
http://www.dexteraxle.com/i/u/614960...Tires_9-12.pdf

No torque wrench in an emergency is fine. Leaving it like that, not so much.

All of the above is 100% about being safe and enjoy your travels.

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

If they are steel wheels, I would suspect the studs you replaced are not seated. If they are alum wheels, it takes at least 3 or 4 times re-torqueing with 50-75 miles between re-torqueing to get the lug nuts seated.

On my last 2 trailers with alum wheels, I left the hubcaps off for the first trip over 100 miles and stopped every 40-50 miles and re-torqued them. Last time was when we stopped at the cg and checked them and none moved, so I reinstalled the hub caps. I always check them before leaving the house.

X2

Several years ago I had (still have) a 86 Mustang that had 3 of the 5 studs on the alum. rims brake..... New tires I forgot to check / retighten them.... I won't do that again I kept the lug nuts as a reminder how close I came studs are broke off in the nuts. I just pulled in the driveway & the front end felt real weird...... Alum rims are famous for that......

[Lloydg]

I check the torque frequently on my RV, but I never do on the TV. Why is the safe practice to check the RV before every trip, but nothing from the auto/truck manufacturers say anything like this? Are RV's more likely to loosen and if so why?

[OldCoot]

Most car and truck wheels are torqued either by a torque bar or a torque wrench or both(good shops) and most are steel wheels. Rv trailers are using a lot of alum. wheels and alum wheels take multiple torqueing of the lugs to finally seat. I suspect that due to the severe twisting action to which tandem axles are subjected also has some effect on them that car and truck wheels are not subjected.

[SKnight]

I don't like torque sticks at all. They're consistent, but very inaccurate. My air gun had a 600+ pound rating, on a 100 ft-lb stick it would slap the lugs on at 150 pounds (left hand torque wrench used to remove the lugs.) and if run up slowly would lock them down at 130ish.

Conversely, the lube techs cheap-o brand impact would slap them on at about 90 lbs and would lock them at 80ish.

If you turned the power on your gun down they worked fine. Unfortunately, I don't know of any that do that. I just use a torque wrench myself.

[OldCoot]

The shop I use, GMAX here in Concord use both and are very meticulous about doing it correctly. I have also checked their torque with my own calibrated torque wrench and have found them to be within the torque specs. Our local GY store is also very reliable in this respect also. When I had the new Marathons put on last summer I checked right behind them with my torque wrench and verified the torque. By the time I had towed home (about 15 miles) I re-tightened all 20 of them.

[Duckogram]

Originally Posted by Lloydg

I check the torque frequently on my RV, but I never do on the TV. Why is the safe practice to check the RV before every trip, but nothing from the auto/truck manufacturers say anything like this? Are RV's more likely to loosen and if so why?

The shearing forces on a towable are much different than that of your car or truck. That becomes more evident when you consider tire tread and sidewall construction. There is a ton of info posted by folks who are proficient if not expert in this area. You should also be able to find info on the subject in your F-250 owners manual. I have checked lug nut torque on my F250, F350 DRW and F-53 and have never found one loose on aluminum or steel wheels.
On my towables, that is not the case.

[OL Creeker]

I check my lug nuts, prior to leaving every campground. I torque them to specs.

[Brother Les]

Originally Posted by gasa765

We bought a 2008 Silverback 30LSA in Dec. We had tires replaced and installed them ourselves without a torque wrench. On our first trip out the driver side front wheel came off when all the studs sheared off. We had the studs replaced. And, had them torqued to 100lbs. However, been a little gun shy since losing the wheel and have been stopping to check the lugs every 50 miles or so. A few on a couple wheels have been a little loose. We just had all lugs replaced with a little shorter ones and used some loctite.
Is it normal for lugs to be a little loose? What's causing this? Or, am I being over paranoid?
Thanks

1) Remove the short lugs and install the correct length.

You can do this yourself in your drive way. Had a tire shear off all lugs 3 miles from the campground years ago and fixed it at the campsite. It is a strange feeling to see one of your tires pass you and your truck does not slow down a lick (Diesel truck). Stopped the truck and the back axle of the camper is on the ground and had deep groves in the hi-way from the u-bolts dragging. Tied up the axle with a come-along. At the campsite, pulled hub and tapped out broken lugs from hub. Went to auto parts store and ordered new lugs, had them in two days delivered to the campground. Tapped in new lugs, installed hub and new bearings and put on spare. Rim was shot from original tire, but the tire was fine. It took longer to drive the 3 miles to the campground than it did to do the repairs as I only creeped along at a couple of miles an hour. You can easily replace the lugs in your drive way. Just do it.

2) Do not use loctite. Clean the stuff off your lugs if you have it on there. This will distort a true torque for one thing and also you may have a heck of a time getting your tire off if you need to.

[GOTTOYS]

Originally Posted by gasa765

I need a phone number for FR to discuss this. Anyone have a number?

Forest River didn't make the hubs or the axles. If they are Dexter axles call Dexter. If they are Lippert axles call Lippert...I don't what they can tell you that you haven't already heard. Shorter wheel studs won't change anything, why would they? I'd like to know the logic behind changing them. Put back the standard size studs you had, make sure you have the right lugnuts for the type of wheel you have, alum. or steel. NEVER put Locktite on wheel studs. If it's the wrong Locktite how would you plan to get them off? Tighten the lugs in stages to the required torque. Check them after 50 miles...then check them before each trip..quit worrying about them.