Need help with GVWR (Was Holy Cow !!)

dezldog1 · 05-11-2011, 10:30 PM

I am so darn confused. I for the life of me cannot seem to figure out how much over weight we are for our TV ??
Please if anyone out there could give me some idea of where we stand I would be ever so grateful. I have a headache from trying to figure it out. I read all the posts and I am still too stupid to get it. Took the truck out to weigh with full fuel and me.
This is what I got at the CAT scale.

Steer Axle 4720 #
Drive Axle 3460 #
Gross weight 8180 #

Went back and weighed with 5er partially ready to go. No food or clothes yet.

Steer Axle 4800 #
Drive Axle 5820 #
Trailer Axle 9940 #
Gross weight 20560 #

Thnx All
Jo

lbrjet · 05-12-2011, 06:37 AM

Trailer weight = 12,300. Compare to GVWR of trailer.
Truck weight is 10,620. Compare to GVWR on truck.
Truck rear axle is 5,820. Compare to RAWR on truck.
A single trailer axle is 4,970. Compare to axle rating on trailer.
Combined is 20,560. Compare to GCWR for truck/trailer combination.
You have a 20% pin weight which is average.

The airbags will level you out, but give you zero in extra capacity.

**Herk7769** · 05-12-2011, 07:42 AM

How to weigh an RV, by CAT scales.

**Herk7769** · 05-12-2011, 07:47 AM

What is missing are five very important numbers you should know.

The GVWR of your TRUCK - Door sticker or spec sheet
The Gross FRONT Axle weight rating of your truck - Web or Spec sheet
The Gross Rear Axle weight rating of your truck - web or spec sheet
The Gross Combined Weight Rating of your truck - web or spec sheet

and the Gross Vehicle weight rating of your camper. Yellow sticker on camper.

Please post if you can get those numbers as they vary from model to model of your truck.

dezldog1 · 05-12-2011, 09:55 AM

This is for the trailer

Hitch weight 1805 #
Axle Dry weight 8718 #
Unloaded vehicle weight 10523 #
GVWR 13805 #
Dual axles 6000# straight
Tire size ST235/80/R16

As for the truck all I can find on the door is this...means nothing ?

**Herk7769** · 05-12-2011, 03:29 PM

2010 Dodge Ram 2500 Specs

Ok, I found the GVWR of your truck right away. I will keep looking for your Combined weight and max axles loads. Remember the curb weight of your truck is the GVWR minus your cargo capacity.

The Gross weight of your truck (the maximum IT can weigh with you, your family, your hitch, your pin weight, and all your gear is 8800 pounds.

From your door sticker it says your max cargo load is 2244 pounds.

Subtracting 2244 from 8800 should give you your curb weight with the diesel engine or 6556 pounds. That is JUST you (provided you weigh 150 pounds) and a tank of gas.

So working with the 2244 pounds of "Load"

Subtract from 2244 the weight of your hitch - maybe 144 pounds
Subtract from 2100 the weight of wife and family 300 pounds
Subtract from 1800 pounds junk in truck like cooler with beer 100 pounds
Leaves 1700 pounds available for pin weight.

Looking at your numbers, it shows you seriously overloaded. Time to trim back on what you are taking. If no camper you weigh 8200 pounds then you only have 600 pounds available for the camper. As you sit, your truck is weighing 10,620 pounds with the camper on its breaking back.

10,620 - 8800 = 1820 pounds overweight on the truck.

Your trailer as currently loaded weighs 20,560 - 8180 = 12,380 pounds which is under its max of 13805.

Your pin weight is 10,620 (after camper) - 8180 (before camper) = 2440 pounds.

Your problem is pin weight on the truck. Now, having said that, many will tell you your truck can handle it. Maybe they are right, but Dodge seems to think not for some reason.

flyrotor · 05-12-2011, 05:09 PM

Lou, his truck should weigh more than that, I was at the dump transfer station a couple of days ago, little more than a half tank of fuel, myself and son (220# combined) and the weight on the scales was 7650#, very similar truck configuration, after I dumped the yard trash. (empty bed)

dezldog1 · 05-12-2011, 08:58 PM

Have more Info !!!

Would like to thank everyone for all the time and input you are giving me. Very much appreciated....

Dealer said payload 2430 #....Towing 12,750#

**Herk7769** · 05-12-2011, 09:51 PM

Ok your GVWR is 9,600 pounds according to the sidewise sticker (hurts my brain after several glasses of home made wine).

Front axle ok at 5500 pounds -> your load 4800
Rear axle ok at 6010 pounds -> your load 5820

Your frame is what is overloaded at 10,620 by about 1000 pounds according to Dodge.

Glenn5995 · 05-13-2011, 12:08 AM

Actually it is his springs which are overloaded. 2500/3500s have the same frames, the difference in GVWR is the springs, tires (single or dual rear wheel) and possibly the rear axle (there is some debate about this and I am not up to date on the 4Gs).

**Herk7769** · 05-13-2011, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn5995

Actually it is his springs which are overloaded. 2500/3500s have the same frames, the difference in GVWR is the springs, tires (single or dual rear wheel) and possibly the rear axle (there is some debate about this and I am not up to date on the 4Gs).

Not sure about this Glenn.

The door post should have the max axle weight at the wheels. That should include springs and mounting hardware.

The GVWR is typically the "least common denominator" (meaning the component with the lowest Gross weight rating). It is normally frame, but could also be drive train.

The GMC 2500 and the GMC 3500 had different frames, although this year both have the same box frame and the GVWR of the 2500HD has gone up 1000 pounds because of it. The axles stayed the same.

dezldog1 · 05-13-2011, 11:02 AM

Okay...this is not good news at all.
Yikes... Trading either unit is not in the cards at this time. Does this mean only camping in the driveway ??
Not a very good thought at all :-(

**Herk7769** · 05-13-2011, 02:53 PM

Well, now how to deal with it.

Since replacement is out of the picture, lets look at reality.
The camper itself is not overloaded, but the pin is pretty heavy for your truck.

Since you need 15% of the camper's weight to be on the pin for stability, 1875 is the target pin weight for a 12500 pound camper.

since your truck weights 8180 ready to go, add the 1875 of a properly loaded and balanced camper and you get 10055 pounds; again over the 9600 pounds your truck is "rated at".

Reducing the weight of the truck is where your problem lies. You can't reduce the pin because the camper will be squirrely when towing. So reducing what you carry in the truck is the answer. Get rid of whatever you can that is heavy. Move tools and generator etc to the camper and aft of the wheels if possible (as long at the 15% pin weight is not lowered).

If after doing all you can, you are still a bit over, now what?

Dodge and other truck manufacturers, just like aircraft manufacturers, rate their vehicles with service life included. Exceeding the GVW of your vehicle will not cause it to "break immediately" but it will certainly reduce its useful life. You see severely overloaded vehicles on the road all the time.

IMO, if you plan on keeping the truck less than 5 years and tow infrequently, don't worry about it. Make sure you run your truck tires at max pressure and inspect the frame for cracks regularly. Trade the truck for a 3500 at the 4 year point as it will certainly be getting tired by then.

dezldog1 · 05-13-2011, 03:31 PM

Thank you Herk..you have been so diligent with me on this issue. I am afraid to say the truck was empty...only had the fifth wheel in. Nothing else not even DH. Just me ( 150 pounds ) and the 6 pound dog...Guess she will have to go :-( LOL.
No groceries or clothes in trailer, no generator ( still in the house )
Wow...what a predicament. Could lose sleep over this for sure..
Do not want to be a danger on the road at all.
Not even any tools !!

**Herk7769** · 05-13-2011, 08:01 PM

I have a similar issue with my 2500HD GMC Duramax. Using the "correct numbers" my truck has a tow capacity rated at 15,500 pounds for a 5th wheel.

However with all my junk in the truck (generator, Gas cans, spare propane, and the pancake air compressor) and the wife and dog, our 9148 pound 8526RLWS is all I can handle (1375 pound pin weight). Truck weighs 7800 pounds with all my junk in it and a 9200 pound GVWR.

Having said that, folks tow Montana's with my same truck pulling "fine" at 15,000 pounds. They ARE empty when I look. No stuff in the bed and just the driver in the truck. That is a 2250 pound pin weight at 15% and within even your truck's payload with just the hitch installed.

**Herk7769** · 05-13-2011, 08:04 PM

Why is your truck so heavy at:
Steer Axle 4720 #
Drive Axle 3460 #
Gross weight 8180 #

with just you, the hitch, and a tank of gas?
That seems pretty high to me.

Pulled my weight ticket and my front axle is 4200 and rear axle is 3600 as you see it below. That is a Yamaha 3000 under the tarp box.

dezldog1 · 05-13-2011, 10:17 PM

Don't know Herk...I am thinking maybe because ours is a 4x4 ?

I was wondering why you had 15,500 tow weight and I am 12,700 ??

Again maybe the 4x4 ??

**Herk7769** · 05-13-2011, 11:29 PM

The max tow rating for the 2008 Sierra HD line with Duramax engine is 15,200 pounds actually.

Tow ratings are based on what you can PULL, not stop or carry. That is why the max tow for the 2500HD, 3500HD (SW) and 3500HD (DW) are all 15,200 pounds for the Diesel engine.

dezldog1 · 05-14-2011, 08:31 AM

Hmmm Dodge seems pretty low for towing while claiming they have great stuff.." Ram tough " Not looking like it.
Ours is a Ram 2500 HD 6.7 diesel with 6 speed auto, 4x4, 6.4' box, 3.73 ratio,GVW 9600, payload 2400, max towing 12,750, 383 HP, 400# of torque.
I think the 4x4 option kicks the heck out of our towing weights

**Herk7769** · 05-14-2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezldog1

Hmmm Dodge seems pretty low for towing while claiming they have great stuff.." Ram tough " Not looking like it.
Ours is a Ram 2500 HD 6.7 diesel with 6 speed auto, 4x4, 6.4' box, 3.73 ratio,GVW 9600, payload 2400, max towing 12,750, 383 HP, 400# of torque.
I think the 4x4 option kicks the heck out of our towing weights

http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/inde...&type=&id=1772

http://www.gmcertified.com/themes/de..._Sierra_HD.pdf

Are you sure the 12,750 is the 5th wheel rating? My travel trailer max GVWR is 13,000 pounds with WD hitch. The 5th wheel max trailer GVWR is 15,800 pounds.

However the 2500HD TRUCK is still limited to the 9200 pounds that IT can weigh.

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