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Old 09-11-2014, 07:55 AM   #1
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towing specs help!

I know this has been discussed but my head is spinning. We are moving up to our first 5th wheel from our 1st TT. I'm a physician with OCD tendencies like everyone else but this makes no sense and I can't seem to find a consensus. I have a 2013 Ford F-250 4WD crew cab SRW 6.7L diesel with a short bed (156 WB). 3.55 axle ratio. The door jamb states a 2100 lb cargo capacity with a 10,000 lb GVWR leaving a truck weight of around 7900 lbs but the payload capacity on the brochure is 3250 lbs. That's the first discrepancy and the payload probably applies to the axle rating. The truck actually weighs 8020 lbs with 1 person and a full tank of gas. Adding in my wife, dog, hitch(200 lbs), 2 portable Honda generators with extra gas(200 lbs) and other gear, let's say 8700 lbs for the truck. That leaves 1300 from the GVWR which will be the pin weight from the 5th wheel. Knowing that this accounts for around 20%, that allows me to tow a 6500 lb loaded trailer. Subtracting 2 full propane tanks(100 lbs), water if you need to carry it(500 lbs) and maybe 200 lbs of stuff (weekend tailgaters and campers), that leaves a dry weight of 5700 lbs. According to that logic, I'm probably overweight with my Rockwood Ultralite. I better stick to popup campers. Coming at this from a more realistic perspectve, the GCWR is 23,500 lbs with a max 5th wheel rating of 15,900. Subtracting the truck weight (8700) from the GCWR leaves a trailer of 14,800 lbs loaded. Using the same numbers, dry would be 14,000. Reasonable since I see these 3/4 ton trucks pulling big trailers all over not to say that some aren't overloaded. But probably the best and safest method takes into account the rear axle rating of 6100 lbs. My axle weighs 3140 and probably close to 3600 after adding the stuff above. That leaves 2500 for the pin weight which is a 12,500 loaded trailer. I think this is the route I'm going. I know most people probably go by the GCWR and max trailer weight. Safer ones may use the axle method. The GVWR seems completely useless. These people must stay in hotels. Comments?

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Old 09-11-2014, 09:17 AM   #2
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You think too much.

RV Lifestyle Magazine tested the Silverback 29IK with a Toyota Tundra with a 5.7 V8 and said the truck was smooth and steady on the road.

Here's a link to that article. Cedar Creek Silverback 29IK - RV Lifestyle Magazine
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:21 AM   #3
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I have read all kinds of articles on tow weight ratings on trucks and I am so confused I don't care anymore. The spec. on my F350 7.3L says it can tow 20,000 lbs. My 5er dry weight is 13,000 and after loading my stuff probably 15 to 16,000 loaded. so the way I see it I'm under the 20,000 lb. tow rating. I'm probably wrong but until I can understand this and clear up my confusion I am going to keep towing with my truck because it tows what I have just fine.. LOL I'll never figure this out and no one else has really ever been able to explain it clear enough for me to comprehend it. Good luck because I'm confused about all the mumbojumbo.
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:34 AM   #4
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I read somewhere on the internet the GVWR for the 6.7 was closer to 15,800. I would call the dealer service department and verify specs for towing a fifth wheel.
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:36 AM   #5
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Found this for a 2008 I was looking at. Yea its only a 6.4 but.... Look at the last page for fifth wheels...
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Old 09-11-2014, 01:30 PM   #6
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OP...just count on your common sense and the eyeball test to determine what is right for you. ..otherwise, the math and gray areas are gonna drive you to tenting! LOL
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:28 PM   #7
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I hesitate to even reply as this topic seems to be a hot button issue for folks...

The brochure payload capacity is calculated by the manufacturer using a base model truck but since you have a diesel engine (and a few other added options I'm sure) your door jamb payload is lower. However, you are correct in that the stickered GVWR minus the payload capacity is equal to the weight of the truck as it rolled off the assembly line.

My main concern when crunching our numbers was ensuring I remained within the payload capacity of the much so that I traded my F-250 (~1,660 payload capacity per the sticker) for an F-350 with a payload capacity per the sticker of 3,120# to make sure I had the needed payload capacity to carry my estimated loaded pin weight of the 5'er of about 2,200#.

Also, remember to take the weight of your 5th wheel hitch into consideration when running the numbers as it also must be accounted for in the remaining payload capacity of the truck.

Best wishes...
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:47 PM   #8
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Well you found the weak link of the f250. My old 09 f250 psd had an available payload of 1500 lbs. We had to trade it for the 3500 in my Sig to be able to tow the fiver we wanted. Yes you are correct about the payload discrepancy. That is because the brochure payload is for the most stripped down version they can get. Anything in or on your truck counts against payload ie tonneau cover, bed liner, trim package, etc all add up and are subtracted from the payload. Also remember a fifth wheel hitch will easily weigh another 150 lbs that will have to be subtracted. If you are by the numbers like me and want to stay within all of your specs then you will need a truck upgrade. Others will tell you to stay within your gross RAWR and not worry about payload. There are scare stories about insurance companies not covering if found to be outside of specs. That wasn't my worry. My concern was my family's safety. I had already tried towing over payload specs with an SUV and tt. Handling was horrible for me and scared me so I swore never again. That was just my experience.
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Old 09-11-2014, 08:19 PM   #9
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I have the exact Truck, Last year traded my 29 ft fifth wheel to a Cedar Creek Silverback model 33RL. Added a set of Timbrens to the rear,No problems. No push, very stable at any speed.Plenty of power. Empty 33RL is about 10,700lbs. Pin about 2015
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Old 09-11-2014, 08:31 PM   #10
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Fifth Wheel Weight Calculator

DO THE MATH. It's very enlightening. Yes it will pull your 5vr for sure,but will it STOP in an emergency situation ? Do you feel comfortable behind the wheel... white knuckles or confidence. How about safety for you and your family and others on the road ? Just me ,but do the math.

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