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Old 04-08-2015, 07:13 PM   #1
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Cool 2015 Prism 2150 LE Tank Heaters

Simple question: Do I have 'em (grey and black holding tank heaters) or not?

Prism customer service says yes and the brochure/spec sheet says yes too.

However I have my doubts:
The 'control panel' has a switch position labled "Tank Heater", but there is no switch there, only a blank filler tab in place of the switch.

I crawled under the chassis to inspect the tanks and see nothing that looks like a heater, only small wires that are likely connected to the level sensors.
Are the heaters hidden somewhere else?

Do I have 'em or not?
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Old 04-08-2015, 10:23 PM   #2
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Not so simple answer. First of all, Coachmen advertises on their website that all of the Prism models have "Heated holding tanks". Then, just like the brochure, there is a disclaimer that basically reads that everything they say is subject to change. When you order a unit, you never know what you will get.
So back to the answer. Heated holding tanks does not mean the you have electric heating pads on your unit. They may be available with a package or not. They may even be a dealer installed item. Who knows. However, the lack of electric pads does not mean that you do not have heated holding tanks. They may be heated by your furnace via a duct. i.e. forced air heat. That is what I have now. If you looked under the chassis did you see the actual tanks or was it the bottom of the compartment they are in. If they are not in a compartment that can be heated by the furnace and there are no heating pads, they cannot be heated.
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Old 04-09-2015, 07:35 AM   #3
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Ducky - we've been debating this in out house. Do we have heated holding tanks? I see a black thin covering on one of the tanks but no switches or anything. You are saying your unit came with heated tanks or you did something after market?
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Old 04-09-2015, 08:04 AM   #4
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jjd,
Your unit has, and I quote from Coachmen, a "Heated holding tank compartment". That takes care of the black & gray which reside under the deck. Your FW tank is above the deck in the rear under the wardrobe. That area is open to the furnace and water heater where it gets heated anyway. Basically, the entire ODS side above the floor is a utility, cable and heat duct chase. The OP has a MB sprinter which is layed out differently but the principal is the same.

BTW, if that black thin cover you are referring to is on the right side of the black tank as you are looking at it in the compartment, it is just an electrical insulator to protect the sensors.
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Old 04-09-2015, 08:27 AM   #5
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Ah yes. That's what it must be - protection for the sensors. So.. the compartment is allegedly heated, but not with pads or any kind of manual control. So it automatically comes on?

Anyway, thanks for the info as always.
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Old 04-09-2015, 11:44 AM   #6
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Well, it looks like my holding tanks do NOT have any heating at all

Under my chassis I'm certain I'm looking at the bottom of the actual (black) plastic holding tanks hanging 'mid-air' from the chassis frame with no compartments or insulation at all. Also, I can clearly see thin wires (undressed and unsecured) (AWG #20?) attached to each tank's level sensors.

The Coachmen brochure indicates heated holding tanks are standard in one list, and yet in another list, an option.

And yes Ducky - you're correct. The brochure's fine print states "Due to continuous improvement, Standards and options subject to change without notice".

Now, I'll have to see if any wiring for tank heaters is in place so I can add after market heaters on my own.
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Old 04-09-2015, 04:57 PM   #7
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Dennise,
That is an unfortunate discovery and I fail to see the logic Coachmen is using. You might want to contact Coachmen directly and see if something is missing.
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Old 04-10-2015, 12:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckogram View Post
Dennise,
That is an unfortunate discovery and I fail to see the logic Coachmen is using. You might want to contact Coachmen directly and see if something is missing.
I did. They seemed surprised as well, but confirmed I have no heaters because my model wasn't ordered with the "Camp 'n Cozy" option.

Go figure
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Old 04-11-2015, 01:27 AM   #9
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LE 2150 tank heat

When I purchased my LE2150 in May of 2014 the salesman said I could take this unit skiing. Living in Montana I figured that would make it at least a 3 season machine. Re the heated tanks or lack thereof I soon figured out that I did not have heated tanks and the drain pipes and tanks were just hanging out in the weather so I solved the problem by enclosing, insulating and putting heaters on the tanks. If you are going to be in fairly cold conditions the pump should be insulated as it is essentially back in the area with the rotocast bins as FR did not really close the area with the pump away from the back storage effectively, you can reach right in and touch the pump without removing the cover on my unit. Easy to stuff some insulation in however. The other spot to be concerned with is the outdoor shower. The best thing to do is just unscrew the head off the hose and make sure it is drained. A little water in the hose probably won't hurt anything but the hard plastic sprayer will crack(I proved it). I intend to stuff some insulation in the compartment around the handles if travelling in freezing weather for extra protection. With the insulated compartment if it is only getting below freezing at night I don't even turn on the heaters as they can drain batteries fairly quickly(8.2 amps). they turn on at 44 degrees and turn off at 64 I believe. If it gets below 20 degrees with all the insulation it only takes them a short time to heat the enclosed area enough to keep it above freezing. I run 2 batteries so furnace overnight is no problem with thermostat at 60 . I have tried it down to 15 degrees at night and the batteries made it through the night but do not intend to camp when it is any colder than that.
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Old 04-11-2015, 11:48 AM   #10
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Tarvidson,

Thanks for you detailed post on this sad issue. Shame on Coachmen/FR marketing and sales for misleading customers about holding tank heaters. Their Prism 'glossy' brochure re tank heaters in my opinion is sneaky

Where we live and plan to travel, I expect only mild freezes but I still intend to install tank heaters and also add some other measures as you have done.

About your heaters. Coachmen customer service tells me all I need is the missing lighted (blue) rocker switch to turn the heaters on 'n off (located in the Prism's control panel), together with the heaters themselves. He told me the heater wiring is already in place. My 2014 coach wiring diagram shows a fused circuit (F9) in the power distribution panel for tank heaters.

Please tell me how you went about adding your heaters. Was your heater wiring actually "in place", and accessible near the holding tanks?
  • Was there an in-place wired connector near the tanks for the heaters?
  • Did you have to splice into heater wiring? Wire colors?
  • Did you have to run new wires to splice/connect to an alternate DC source?
Thanks again for the great tips! I'm sure others will find them useful.

Dennis
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Old 04-11-2015, 06:33 PM   #11
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More info on tank heaters LE 2105

Dennis,
I don't think mine had a place for a tank heater switch or anything. F9 was empty with no wires. I researched the heating pads, bought the most expensive(Ultra Heat) with the lighted switch because they had better reviews and much better documentation, got the black flexible conduit at Lowes, installed the Ultra Heat switch next to the other switches, installed a 15 amp fuse in an empty slot(F9) in the fuse box and ran 14ga wire(Just two wires, red and white, no ground)(You do want to ground the switch however) back to the heater pads.(You may need another circuit if you also have elbow and valve heaters as those do not have thermostatic control and require another switch).
It is not easy to build an insulated box around the tanks as there is all sort of stuff in the way and not a lot of attachment points that look solid. We do so much dry camping that I wanted to insulate to save on batteries. If you were going to be plugged in at night just putting the heaters on and leaving it exposed would probably be fine as the truck alternator would keep the batteries charged going down the road but I would be worried about busting the drain pipes or valves. You would need more heaters to thaw out the valves and keep the pipes from busting. The Ultra Heat site has very good info. If you have any more questions or want to see more pictures let me know. Good luck!
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Old 04-13-2015, 05:55 PM   #12
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Tarvidson,

Well here's my mystery.

Close to each black and grey tank,I see a wire pair that is not connected to anything. Each comes out from a black corrugated conduit containing many other wires. I'd guess these are wire pairs intended for heating pads.

Now, inside my 'control' panel with it's various switches and the leds showing battery, LPG and tank levels, I see six unconnected wires with tabs on their ends that are intended to be press fit onto two additional rocker switches (three tabs each) e.g. 2nd slide out and holding tank heaters. One panel cut-out is actually labeled "Tank Heater" but there's a blank in that cut-out.

My dilemma is that two of the six wires are always 'hot' with 12V, even with all the 12V fuses removed from the power box (at the foot of the bed). These two 12V wires must be fused somewhere but I don't have a clue where. Do you think it possible that the 12V tank heater source is fused somewhere in the Sprinter itself? I haven't been able to as yet figure out what uses the Sprinter battery and what uses the coach battery I suspect two other of the six wires are routed to the holding tank area, but I haven't proved that out.

I have wiring plans for 2014 Prism's, but the wire colors and other parts don't match what I see and fuse F9 is already used for some other circuit. in my unit. (there is however a spare unconnected fused circuit I can use).

Any suggestions other than running all new wiring as you have done? I expected more from the wiring plan, but found it very lacking in accuracy. Maybe it would match your Prism? Let me know and I'll send 'em (about 7-PDF sheets) to you.
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Old 04-13-2015, 08:54 PM   #13
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I think we have different floor plans as my fuse box is just as you walk in the door and seems to have fuses for everything 12V and 120V right there. I can't imagine they use the Sprinter battery for anything on the coach as you could leave yourself stranded very easily. I would think the only wires back there that would run off the Sprinter battery would be outside lights, brake, tail etc. Nothing on mine seems to drain the Sprinter battery at all. I didn't ask you if you were plugged into 120V when you had 12V at those wires? Not that I would know why they would bypass the fuses to those wires? Maybe to charge the batteries? Does turning off the central power switch take power away from those wires? You could find out where that power is coming from by unhooking a battery lead and unplugging from shore power. I don't know that I would unhook the Sprinter battery without talking to a mechanic, computer stuff and all that.
The way I trace wires is to get a long insulated wire with clips on both ends, hook on at 1 end, hook up to my multimeter and check continuity until I find the right wire at the other end. However you can't do that when you have voltage in the line so don't try it on a hot one. Be aware that to power heating pads the wire probably should be 14 ga or heavier to handle the 8-12 amps that most heating pads require so if it is not fairly heavy wire that is not what it is for.
Thanks for the offer of the wiring plan but not knowing if it is the right one sounds frustrating. I'm sorry I don't have more answers and less questions! Keep me posted.
Tom
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:23 PM   #14
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Some progress and discovery.

I've ID'd an unused 12V branch circuit with #14 wiring that emerges in my control panel. This will be my 12V holding tank heater switch source. Now on to ID the control panel wires that lead to the G&B water holding tank area for connection to my (on order) heating pads. What had led me astray is worth noting and may be of use to others in trouble shooting/following 12V wiring in Prism's and likely other coaches as well.

When a 12V fuse is removed - and there is NO load on the associated branch circuit - a high impedance 'sneak path' on the circuit board will still give a 12V reading on many (i.e. newer) multimeters on that unfused circuit! This gives the (false) impression that the circuit is always hot and has a mysterious alternate source! Putting a load on the circuit (with the fuse still removed) will confirm the circuit IS 'dead' and the voltage will read zero. I proved this with a simple 12V bulb as the 'load'. A circuit load is also required to make the little red LED "fuse blown" indicator illuminate for a blown or removed fuse.

Tarvidson, I'm pretty certain my wiring drawings, are for 2014 Prism 2150s. These indeed show the load center near the entry door as you have indicated. So do let me know and I'll email 'em to you if you want.

Coachmen has promised 2015 wiring plans, but I've not received these yet.
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:03 PM   #15
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Dennis,
Very interesting on the multimeter, mine is about 40 years old and I had not heard that. My electrical training is about 40 years old also so circuit boards were individual transistors, resistors etc when I learned. It sounds like you are on the right track. You can email those to me at tarvidson00@gmail.com Mine is a 2015 also but they will probably apply at least somewhat.
Thanks,
Tom
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:20 PM   #16
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Dennis,
Very interesting on the multimeter, mine is about 40 years old and I had not heard that. My electrical training is about 40 years old also so circuit boards were individual transistors, resistors etc when I learned. It sounds like you are on the right track. You can email those to me at tarvidson00@gmail.com Mine is a 2015 also but they will probably apply at least somewhat.
Thanks,
Tom
Tried to send wiring plans, but your email address bounces. Please advise.
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Old 05-06-2015, 12:23 PM   #17
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We just bought a 2015 Freelander 22QBF and are quite baffled about a long list of things that we were not fully informed about during our walkthrough. Due to reading this thread, we discovered that we DO have heated tanks (by golly, there is a lighted toggle switch on the panel!) and we had to google "Freelander Premium Package" to actually get a list of included items. We didn't intend to ever get caught anywhere to need those heaters, but it would have been nice to have been informed!

Now my BIG question: Where did you get a wiring diagram? I have not been able to come up with that.
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Old 05-10-2015, 09:40 PM   #18
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I have been out in the sticks for the last week with no internet so just now seeing your message. I do not have a wiring diagram for mine, at least not that is accurate. Supposedly you can get one from Forest River, but I don't know how. Dennise( from post) had gotten one for his but he is Out of touch for awhile and I did not find out from him who he contacted to get it. There are apparently ways to get through to knowledgeable people at Forest River going by what people say on the forum but I have never attempted it so cannot be helpful. It would be great to know. Good luck!
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Old 05-21-2015, 06:42 PM   #19
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We just bought a 2015 Freelander 22QBF and are quite baffled about a long list of things that we were not fully informed about during our walkthrough. Due to reading this thread, we discovered that we DO have heated tanks (by golly, there is a lighted toggle switch on the panel!) and we had to google "Freelander Premium Package" to actually get a list of included items. We didn't intend to ever get caught anywhere to need those heaters, but it would have been nice to have been informed!

Now my BIG question: Where did you get a wiring diagram? I have not been able to come up with that.
Try Ron Ross @574-825-8602 or rross@forestriverinc.com. Be advised, I was able to get a wiring plan, not a schematic, but it has been helpful. Good luck 'n have patience, Ross is a very busy man
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