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01-30-2017, 06:35 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 14
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Towing Capacity
I own a Coachmen 360 dl, just weighed on CAT scales at 28000. It has a GCWR of 30000. My intent was to use my Envoy as a toad, which is going to put it over the GCWR. As a matter of fact just about any toad will put me over GCWR. Can anyone comment on this? Doesn't seem right to me. Thanks
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01-30-2017, 07:27 PM
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#2
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Kanadian Kamper
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 8,185
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I don't think GCWR is the rating to be concerned with. You're towing the Envoy....not carrying it.
Someone else will chime in with all these letter codes for motorhomes and how they apply.
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Ken and Terry
2018 Sunseeker 2430S-CD, nicely modified and carried by a 2017 Ford E450 Sport
Former Georgetown 330TS owner for 10 years with more mods than I can count, pushed by our 2017 GMC Terrain
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01-30-2017, 07:43 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,223
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If your actual weight is 28,000 and GCWR is 30,000 then you are limited to pulling 2,000 pounds or less. One of the reasons I quit looking at motorhomes. Most of them (at least the one's I can justify) are overloaded and underpowered. And, one of the reasons I really like the Dynaquest...it can tow up to 20,000 pounds and has enough power to do it uphill.
Pretty good explanation of weights here: http://changingears.com/rv-sec-tow-v...derstand.shtml
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BIRDS AREN’T REAL
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01-31-2017, 07:23 AM
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#4
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Insert witty title here
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: About 30 miles west of Beantown.
Posts: 4,034
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Just one of the reasons I prefer a trailer or 5th wheel. There's no need for a TOAD.
__________________
2021 Transcend Xplor 247BH
Husky WDH with Sway Control
2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD LT 6.6L V8 Duramax
Forever in my memory. Forever in my heart.
Laurie J. Wood 3/22/67 - 8/23/19
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01-31-2017, 07:35 AM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 36
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Consider this. The rating of your RV is a function of what your vechicle can carry and what the brakes can stop. You can pull just about anything if you are willing to pay for the fuel from a mechanical aspect .
Since you aren't carrying it you can discount that within reason.
That leaves braking. Get a GOOD toad brake system and then the weight of the toad is not additive. I'm partial to SMI's stay in play systems.
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01-31-2017, 07:46 AM
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#6
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Insert witty title here
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: About 30 miles west of Beantown.
Posts: 4,034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAttkisson
Consider this. The rating of your RV is a function of what your vechicle can carry and what the brakes can stop. You can pull just about anything if you are willing to pay for the fuel from a mechanical aspect .
Since you aren't carrying it you can discount that within reason.
That leaves braking. Get a GOOD toad brake system and then the weight of the toad is not additive. I'm partial to SMI's stay in play systems.
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GCWR is the maximum allowed combined weight of the vehicle PLUS any trailer. The quality of the braking system is irrelevant to this number.
__________________
2021 Transcend Xplor 247BH
Husky WDH with Sway Control
2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD LT 6.6L V8 Duramax
Forever in my memory. Forever in my heart.
Laurie J. Wood 3/22/67 - 8/23/19
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01-31-2017, 08:20 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timfromma
GCWR is the maximum allowed combined weight of the vehicle PLUS any trailer. The quality of the braking system is irrelevant to this number.
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Very true. We don't know for sure what limiting factor is used to determine the weights. A good example is both the max trailer and the max combined weights for the Ram pickups. The 1500 with the EcoDiesel has weights that are over 1,000 pounds less than the hemi powered model even though both versions have the same frame, brakes, gear ratios, etc. Turns out the reason is it was determined that under certain common conditions the ED turbo would overheat if the published max weights were exceeded, even though th ED had a better torque rating.
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BIRDS AREN’T REAL
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01-31-2017, 08:54 AM
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#8
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 14
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Thank you
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01-31-2017, 08:57 AM
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#9
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 14
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Has anyone used the NSA ready brake system?
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01-31-2017, 12:57 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 801
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OP if you are in an accident this information might become relevant and you would be liable. As it was mentioned the GCWR is the sum of the TV in your case the motor home and the toad. No way around it unless you want to go around risking yourself and others. Sorry
__________________
2017 Leprechaun 311 FS
Jeep Patriot and Cherokee as toad.
Enjoying retirement.
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01-31-2017, 12:59 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 801
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Emm-dee, the reason the 1500 eco diesel has a lower figure is because the diesel engine weights more than the gas.
__________________
2017 Leprechaun 311 FS
Jeep Patriot and Cherokee as toad.
Enjoying retirement.
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01-31-2017, 03:10 PM
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#12
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Insert witty title here
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: About 30 miles west of Beantown.
Posts: 4,034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonwisconsin
Emm-dee, the reason the 1500 eco diesel has a lower figure is because the diesel engine weights more than the gas.
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The diesel engine delivers more torque which should more than compensate for its increased weight. There must be something else that's the limiting factor.
__________________
2021 Transcend Xplor 247BH
Husky WDH with Sway Control
2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD LT 6.6L V8 Duramax
Forever in my memory. Forever in my heart.
Laurie J. Wood 3/22/67 - 8/23/19
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01-31-2017, 03:28 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,219
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According to the Coachman website the GVWR is 26K so you are 2K over.
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2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
2010 F250 4X4 5.4L 3.73 LS
EQUALIZER E4 1200/12000
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02-01-2017, 09:21 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 801
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Tim,
I don't want to be contentious, but go and look at the manufacturer's web pages and you will see what I meant. For example a Silverado 2500 6.2L gas has a payload of 3,410 in the same configuration but with a diesel it has 2,880. In the 2500 RAM Hemi the payload is 3,990 but 3,160 for a diesel. What I have been told is that the addtional weight of the diesel engine is reduced from the GVWR.
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02-01-2017, 10:02 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonwisconsin
Tim,
I don't want to be contentious, but go and look at the manufacturer's web pages and you will see what I meant. For example a Silverado 2500 6.2L gas has a payload of 3,410 in the same configuration but with a diesel it has 2,880. In the 2500 RAM Hemi the payload is 3,990 but 3,160 for a diesel. What I have been told is that the addtional weight of the diesel engine is reduced from the GVWR.
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Payload is reduced with the diesel engine but GVWR remains the same.
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BIRDS AREN’T REAL
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02-01-2017, 10:10 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 801
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Yes, that's why the payload on diesels is lower because the weight differential is deducted making diesels to have a lower payload on same configurations. The table you shared with us clearly shows it.
I looked and the same applies to 3500 RAMs.
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02-01-2017, 10:37 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonwisconsin
Yes, that's why the payload on diesels is lower because the weight differential is deducted making diesels to have a lower payload on same configurations. The table you shared with us clearly shows it.
I looked and the same applies to 3500 RAMs.
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Same differences in payloads depending on engine weight and configuration in all models...Ford, Chevy and Ram. However, there's more that goes into how the manufacturer determines the max towing capacity and max combined weight. Most of the time one can see the main reasons for the different capacities by looking at the engine/transmission configuration and the drive ratio. BUT, there may be other limiting factors which is rarely published by the manufacturer.
Regarding the original question the MH and towed vehicle has a max combined weight but we really don't know how that weight was derived. But, exceeding it may cause problems. We don't know what problems could happen...could be mechanical, could be handling, could be a whole lot of things. And, it may not cause problems. We just don't know.
In the case of the RAM 1500 ED, it's lowered towing capacity is due to possible overheating of the turbo. I first heard about that on a forum (either this on or one of the Ram forums). I asked two different factory maintenance reps and both verified that info. I've heard of people using the ED to pull more than the max weight and never had a problem. It probably pulls a little better than the Hemi version because of the higher torque output. But, some weight limits are just that...a limit. Exceeding them will probably work for a while, until it doesn't work. Then it's snafu time.
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BIRDS AREN’T REAL
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02-02-2017, 06:15 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 801
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Payload is calculated GVWR-curb weight. Because diesel trucks curb weight is higher because of the engine the payload is reduced.
A reason, not the only one, why some turbos go wrong in RAMs is because the owners do not follow the manual instructions after towing. The manual states 3-5 minutes cool down period before shutting of the engine after towing a heavy trailer. I have seen many owners not following this.
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