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Old 07-18-2015, 02:29 PM   #11
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I'm with you

A little history about me...
My dad when I was a kid worked for an RV manufacturer. He even invented a popup camper. So he educated me on the industry back in the day.
Anyway, it is common to hire laborers off the street who put these things together. Not to say there aren't good laborers, but then again, you get what you pay for.
That said, there is also the issue of cheap materials and the "hurry up" mentality in some of these factories. For example, I just looked inside a panel underneath my back shower on my 5er. Inside there were lots of wood shavings and cutoff plastic material from the install. It wouldn't have taken maybe a minute to clean up after themselves, but the work and quality ethic just isn't there, probably from the top down. The idea is to use material that looks good on first showing, but has no inherent long-lasting quality.
My previous RV was made by Holiday Rambler in 2007. It's quality wasn't fantastic, but it still beat the quality of my 2015 Wildwood from FR. I am disappointed in the quality, but unless I want to spend REALLY big bucks, I won't get it anywhere. They all use basically the same materials from a handful of suppliers like Dometic, so unless they make their own materials, there will be very little differences unless it is in the way they are engineered and put together.
If I had it to do over, I would not have bought FR. Too much snipping at the edges in order to sell more units. Of course, FR is owned by the Hathaway Group. He's rich for a reason, and he doesn't care!
All that said, I do enjoy camping, and only have a few issues with how it all works. I can put up with it, but I am a picky person who knows quality when I see it. So why did I buy this unit?
Well, I was in a hurry and wanted to dump the older unit. Also got the nod from DW, so I did it. Next time will take more time and do my homework, but I am in doubt now about whether ANY RV manufacturer can deliver the quality I want.

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Old 07-18-2015, 02:43 PM   #12
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Put yourself in the place of the corp execs. Sales are at an all time high and they can not keep up with demand. There is no reason to improve anything. Until we stop buying nothing is likely to change. Not saying this is right, but just how it is.


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Old 07-18-2015, 04:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by J T View Post
If you bring the Velcro tabs down from the bunk that hold the ladder to the removable part of the bunk, the curtain will hang as you describe.

You got a ladder? I guess the bean counters (mentioned previously) thought it was cheaper if they didn't include one in my Sunseeker Class C. I bought a stepladder at Costco. Comes in handy if I want to do stuff on the outside like opening the stove vent.
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Old 07-18-2015, 06:26 PM   #14
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You are 100% right, it won't matter how much you spend, quality, fit, finish will be the same. I am in the process of buying new MH, I am already anticipating things I will have to reinforce and clean up.
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:15 PM   #15
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What was Coachmen thinking?

I agree, the industry is getting cheaper. I purchased a 2015 Apex with no Toilet paper holder which is an easy fix, but what bathroom does not have one!
The shower curtain rail has little metal hooks holding the plastic shower curtain. Won't be long before the curtain is torn. Again an easy fix but could have been corrected from day one.
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:45 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by brbarrell View Post
I agree, the industry is getting cheaper. I purchased a 2015 Apex with no Toilet paper holder which is an easy fix, but what bathroom does not have one!
The shower curtain rail has little metal hooks holding the plastic shower curtain. Won't be long before the curtain is torn. Again an easy fix but could have been corrected from day one.

Maybe a visit to the dealership bathroom and simply "relocate" the TP holder tube but leave the TP on the floor. Then stop by the sales office and ask why they don't have TP holders in the restrooms. I bet the look on their faces would be priceless.

Bet they sell TP in parts Dept. Maybe you could take a pack and play dumb and ask what the TP is for? When they tell you then ask where you are suppose to keep the TP roll.
They might even be embarrassed to tell you to just place it on the floor.

Any chance you can post pictures showing 4 walls with no TP holder?
I would bet the dealership would just love to receive email with a link to the post on this thread, naming the dealership and salesman.
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:49 AM   #17
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Tireman sorry for your issues

Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Just picked up our new 2016 Coachmen Freelander 22QB. As we start packing our stuff I have noted a number of items that appear to be an attempt on Coachmen's part to cut their cost by a couple dollars per unit.

One example is the omission of the Velcro "buttons" around the cab-over cut-out area where the privacy curtain hangs. They provided a piece of cloth with the fuzzy part of the Velcro system along its top edge. This cloth is similar in length to what we had in our 2008 Freelander 2130QB. This curtain hangs from a number of Velcro buttons that are screwed into the edge of the cab-over, The length matched the design intent of having the privacy curtain covering the entire area.

But someone at Coachmen decided they could save about $2.00 by not using the Velcro buttons. The result is the privacy curtain doesn't have any support for about 5" so it droops and of course provides no privacy at all.

This is a relatively minor item but i am sharing it to let people know the mindset of the company that may be building the RV they are considering.

Cutting many corners may result in Forest River Corporate saving ten or twenty bucks per unit but it does little to instill confidence in the quality of the items and systems we can't see.
You could not be more correct that so many RVís are penny pinched by the factory, and it has gotten most in hot water of late with some of it making it to the Feds! Therefore, there is supposed to be some changes coming soon (but too late for you and many others right now) but soon. Glad to see you here have followed you for some time through "" and have loved all your work with tires, and have copied you to many folks that have had issue with tires, so I hope you have helped many understand the whys and howís of who is wrong about tires.

As for your dealer prep, this is the biggest swindle going, as the dealers that I know do not even check the coach out, and it is obvious when you take a walk through and find a list of simple to see things wrong. This goes back to a statement my cousin says about this (all RVís when delivered to a dealer should be forced back to the factory and have the (finish building the coach) so I hope it gets fixed to your satisfaction and they have some Happy Camping
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:46 AM   #18
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On Quality

Per your statement, I wonder if the Feds will force FR products to "make it right", even for those who have already purchased.

An example might be cheap tires. That is a safety issue. I remember years ago that Firestone Tires had to pay lots of money because their tires were implicated in SUV rollovers. So it might be with RV tires from the factory. A blowout on a trailer is life threatening. The trailer can start swaying, throw parts at other motorists, cause others to wreck, and do significant damage to the undercarriage. Tires should not be things that are shortcutted.

A tire is a special thing, just like ladders. A ladder is by nature something to help people climb up or down. They aren't as expensive to make as it would seem when you buy one. But because the industry has such a special liability because people fall off ladders, they have to include the price of liability insurance in the sales price.

I don't want to see this happen with RVs, but OTOH, deliberately making something unsafe by using cheap materials does put the public at risk. This is not the same as ladders, where no matter how good the ladder is made, it is still a ladder. An RV is not inherently unsafe. But when you use cheap material, you can actually MAKE IT UNSAFE!.

So, the unsafe coaches are still out there, made unsafe from the factory. That condition needs to be made right. I hope the feds recognize that fact. Isn't this a lot like when Chevy had to recall the Corvair? Ralph Nader ought to be consulted on this one! (I'm showing my age, huh?)
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Old 07-20-2015, 12:02 PM   #19
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Corvair was built by Chevy, need I say anymore!!. I owned 3 Chev products in my life, all had major issues. Never again!
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Old 07-20-2015, 12:23 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by B and B View Post
Corvair was built by Chevy, need I say anymore!!. I owned 3 Chev products in my life, all had major issues. Never again!
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