Breaker Panel

LDStaas · 06-06-2017, 01:00 PM

Does anyone know if there is room in the 120volt panel to add another breaker in an FR30DS? Thanks

KansasFR3 · 06-06-2017, 04:39 PM

I think there are two slots open. One used to move the AC 20 amp breaker from the coaches 30 amp breaker (since the heat will cause the AC to trip in hot weather) and another spare.

Kadiddle · 06-07-2017, 08:51 AM

X2 on KansasFR3 regarding extra slots. I also moved the A/C breaker to a new slot. No more heat related tripping of the A/C breaker. Really easy upgrade if you are comfortable with VAC breaker panels.

LDStaas · 06-07-2017, 12:00 PM

Thank you, you guys have been a great help.

repsolgamma · 06-08-2017, 01:11 AM

OK, now you guys got my interest up.

I just wanted to add a new 2000 W inverter, and thought that it needed to go on its own breaker inside the panel. That means if there are open slots then I can put the inverter input into the breaker panel, right?

So let me be clear, you guys take the air-conditioner feed off of the 30 amp breaker and move it over to a 20 amp breaker?

Makes me think that the 30 amp breaker is not only feeding the air-conditioner but all the other loads in the coach well, is that correct?

Kadiddle · 06-08-2017, 07:09 AM

Kind of a different thread than the OP but I'll bite.

If you are adding an "Inverter", you are adding a device that creates 120VAC from your 12VDC system including the coach batteries. The "input" is from the 12VDC system and not the VAC breaker panel. The output, about 14-16 amps depending on efficiency of the inverter, is 120VAC presumably to run VAC components (e.g. TV) without 120 VAC shore power or generator. Normally, one would just connect the output of the inverter to the devices needing power and not involve the VAC breaker panel. 2000W drain of the house battery(ies) is a very large load and won't last for long. Might keep up if the motorhome engine is running. Remember Watts = Voltage * Amps so 2000W at 12VDC is 167 Amps - That's a pretty capable alternator. This assumes you are using all 2000W.

Yes, the 30AMP breaker in your breaker panel is the VAC feed to the whole coach. That voltage is coming into the panel whereas all of the others are taking voltage from the panel to the VAC systems in the coach.

Some of us have found that the dual breaker that has the coach main at 30 amps and the A/C breaker at 20 amps in the same slot overheats and causes the A/C to breaker to trip. Again, math. That's 50 amps going through one physical, dual breaker. Any contact resistance in that breaker will create wattage (heat) at the rate of Resistance * 50 Amps * 50 Amps in that one slot. (Watts also equals the current squared times the resistance.) By putting in a separate breaker just for the A/C, each breaker slot's wattage dissipation is approximately cut in half.

I hope this helps.

ScottBrownstein · 06-08-2017, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by repsolgamma

OK, now you guys got my interest up.

I just wanted to add a new 2000 W inverter, and thought that it needed to go on its own breaker inside the panel. That means if there are open slots then I can put the inverter input into the breaker panel, right?

So let me be clear, you guys take the air-conditioner feed off of the 30 amp breaker and move it over to a 20 amp breaker?

Makes me think that the 30 amp breaker is not only feeding the air-conditioner but all the other loads in the coach well, is that correct?

Let's slow down here. The 30 amp breaker is the main breaker. All of the AC that goes to the panel goes through it and then goes out to the various devices through the other breakers.

From what I read, they decide to use a double breaker for the 30 amp main and the 20 amp air conditioner. This means that the current for the A/C comes in through the 30 amp side and goes out through the 20 amp side.

Apparently when running the AC and other things at the same time, the heat from the 20 amp load and the 30 amp main is too much for the physical breaker package (just the AC itself would put heat from 40 amps on the package) and it trips prematurely. Moving the A/C to its own separate 20 amp breaker (an freeing up a 20 amp connection on the main breaker body) should and does seem to solve this.

Others are right in that installing a 2000W inverter has nothing to do with this. You will need to decide which breaker you are going to feed with the inverter and move its load from the breaker to the output transfer switch of the inverter so that is will automatically stop drawing DC when you connect to shore power or run the generator.

Kadiddle · 06-08-2017, 06:10 PM

X2 ScottBrownstein with an added note.

If one decides to run the output of an inverter through the breaker panel, it should have a transfer switch of plug prior to the panel just like the generator. Having the inverter output have a direct appearance on the breaker panel is a recipe for disaster.

repsolgamma · 06-08-2017, 10:20 PM

My previous attempt to explain, clearly failed!

12V Input from battery bank (newly installed 2-6V EXIDE GC145 in series), is the most reliable source of energy storage in the coach.

Since I will fuse the battery 12V input cable with a 100 amp D.C. fuse, and install the inverter in the undercoach storage bin nearest the coach battery bank, I was hoping to use the 120V outlet in that compartment to distribute 120V to the loads I want to power.

Since no matter what is charging my batteries, 12V is a reliable source for powering the minor loads intended i.e. Entertainment systems TV and stereo systems. What is the harm in just dedicating a 120V circuit to always be on the inverter, powered by 12V? Seperated from main panel breakers on basically an extension cord using existing 120V wiring already in place.

I know it cannot be wired into main panel, that would be 2 input feeds of 120V AC (one from generator, or pedestal at camp, the other from output of inverter), out of phase causing fireworks.

But what is the harm in just dedicating the inverter output to the TVs' and maybe a BLU-ray player and sound bar/speaker system? I know if the inverter fails, then no TV or stereo until replaced.

Just want it to be safe, with proper wire gauge for AC power loads expected. Also don't want to have to drill more holes in coach walls or floors or install wire when it's already installed in storage space next to battery bank..

Kadiddle · 06-09-2017, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by repsolgamma

.......... I was hoping to use the 120V outlet in that compartment to distribute 120V to the loads I want to power. ..............

I understand what you are trying to do. It's an interesting thought to just leave inverter loads on the inverter even when on shore power. You lose some efficiency (wasted power) and put extra loads on your 12 VDC system. The quoted line above worries me.

The 120 VAC outlet you use to distribute the inverter output must be disconnected from the breaker panel and then tapped into by the inverter 120 VAC output. Then, will all of the 120 VAC loads you wish to get to be on that circuit? Interested to hear your comments on these points. I can think of some good and bad ways.

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