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Old 12-31-2016, 11:33 PM   #101
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Sadly, most brand new RV's would be advertised a "Fixer upper" if there were Truth in advertising.

I downsized from a DP to an A Frame camper so I would not have to deal with all the problems associated with the more complex rig.
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Old 01-01-2017, 03:32 AM   #102
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But the good thing about the first year of problems with a new RV: after having to fix everything, you get to know it inside and out. And hopefully the second year goes problem free!!!
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Old 01-01-2017, 06:18 AM   #103
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But the good thing about the first year of problems with a new RV: after having to fix everything, you get to know it inside and out. And hopefully the second year goes problem free!!!
I sure do not see what is good about fixing problems for the first year of owning a new RV. I would agree getting to know it inside and out is good, but just taking for granted you're going to be dealing with a multitude of issues for a year and calling it good, and I am guilty of it too, reinforces what these manufacturers already know. That is they can get away with tossing junk out on the market and the owners or dealers will finish the construction or correct the deficiencies. It does make for some good business for the RV repair and maintenance I have been doing on the side when time allows. That's a huge, and hopeful Hopefully on getting through the second year issue free too.

They really shoot themselves in the foot. I have met many 1st time owners over the last few years at campgrounds who experienced the bad side and who swore it was the first and last RV they were going to own. The vast majority of owners do not belong to or even read RV and camping boards, and most do not have the skills or desire to become an RV technician.

The Grand Design thread that is ongoing right now is interesting. It sure seems that Grand Design is getting it right. I also come to that conclusion from a friends experience with his GD, and snooping around the GD boards. The surprising thing is they're getting it right despite the ones I have looked at being crammed full of Lippert components, maybe even more so than most FR brands if thats even possible. It either go's to prove turds can be polished (referring to Lippert parts) on an assembly line, or possibly they just spec and demand more from LCI. It's also interesting that their pricing is right inline with F.R. or Thor brands.
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:48 AM   #104
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I sure do not see what is good about fixing problems for the first year of owning a new RV. I would agree getting to know it inside and out is good, but just taking for granted you're going to be dealing with a multitude of issues for a year and calling it good, and I am guilty of it too, reinforces what these manufacturers already know. That is they can get away with tossing junk out on the market and the owners or dealers will finish the construction or correct the deficiencies. It does make for some good business for the RV repair and maintenance I have been doing on the side when time allows. That's a huge, and hopeful Hopefully on getting through the second year issue free too.

They really shoot themselves in the foot. I have met many 1st time owners over the last few years at campgrounds who experienced the bad side and who swore it was the first and last RV they were going to own. The vast majority of owners do not belong to or even read RV and camping boards, and most do not have the skills or desire to become an RV technician.

The Grand Design thread that is ongoing right now is interesting. It sure seems that Grand Design is getting it right. I also come to that conclusion from a friends experience with his GD, and snooping around the GD boards. The surprising thing is they're getting it right despite the ones I have looked at being crammed full of Lippert components, maybe even more so than most FR brands if thats even possible. It either go's to prove turds can be polished (referring to Lippert parts) on an assembly line, or possibly they just spec and demand more from LCI. It's also interesting that their pricing is right inline with F.R. or Thor brands.
Count me as one in that "camp". I was caught up in the "Shiny Object Syndrome" and didn't do my due diligence (like reading this forum) before purchasing. Like the old saying "Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me." I've been fooled once.

The mods I have done - Atwood heat pump replacing the Dometic. The Dometic worked fine but was terribly noisy. FR could have installed the Atwood for about the same money. Replacing the Jensen stereo with a Kenwood. A little more money but much better sound quality (I replaced front speakers) and a much better nav system (made by Garmin). Curt Controller enclosure - to fix the poor installation by FR and avoid the now recalled brake light defect. And a host of other small items simply to improve the quality of the MH - most of which could have been done at the factory for little to no component cost.

As to the Grand Design - it's possible that their quality of construction overcomes some of the negatives of the third party components. I have not had too many issues with the parts not made by FR. My issues have been with assembly quality - holes made with a hammer rather than a drill. Wires run haphazardly, poor crimps, etc. rather than using pre-made harnesses. Screws installed without a doubler or backer board.

So clearly, if Grand Design (a formerly much smaller company) can assemble a decent quality TT using the same components as FR, provide real QC on each and every TT and sell them at the same price point - there is no excuse for the lack of quality often seen from FR.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:04 AM   #105
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Guess I'm in the minority with no issues at all in the first year but then I kept it simple as well Like Bluepill. My thinking was, the more stuff you load on, the more issues you may have down the road...

Buy then, my wife and I aren't fans of fru-fru anyway. It is camping after all, not toting your house along with you to a campground.

My take is, if you want all that 'home luxury', stay home.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:19 AM   #106
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Guess I'm in the minority with no issues at all in the first year but then I kept it simple as well Like Bluepill. My thinking was, the more stuff you load on, the more issues you may have down the road...

Buy then, my wife and I aren't fans of fru-fru anyway. It is camping after all, not toting your house along with you to a campground.

My take is, if you want all that 'home luxury', stay home.
Guess I should have just spent $100 on a tent from Cabella's, thrown it in the back of my 1992 4Runner along with my sleeping bag and hit the road. Could have saved about $90K!

Sorry, never been a fan of traditional camping. I've spent 10-15 days a month for the past 30 years in hotels - so I was hoping to be able to travel around, see the U.S., unpack once and have a reasonable level of comfort without being in another sterile hotel room. Isn't that what the glossy brochure promised?
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:17 AM   #107
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I'm a bit past a tent myself, having been an Eagle Scout and spending many, many nights (and rainy days) in a tent in the middle of nowhere, carrying all my essentials on my back in a backpack..... something I still do when I go hunting.

Conversely, tents are a bit more than a hundred bucks today. My Hillenberg was 600 bucks and it's a 2 man backpack tent.

You missed my point which is simply, the more complex any RV becomes, the more chance there is for issues, but that applies to anything mechanical, electrical or electronic, not just an RV.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:04 AM   #108
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OK, fair enough

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I'm a bit past a tent myself, having been an Eagle Scout and spending many, many nights (and rainy days) in a tent in the middle of nowhere, carrying all my essentials on my back in a backpack..... something I still do when I go hunting.

Conversely, tents are a bit more than a hundred bucks today. My Hillenberg was 600 bucks and it's a 2 man backpack tent.

You missed my point which is simply, the more complex any RV becomes, the more chance there is for issues, but that applies to anything mechanical, electrical or electronic, not just an RV.
You are correct. RV's have gotten increasingly complex, as have cars, trucks, cell phones. etc. With my single data point of an RV purchase, it appears that the RV manufacturers have not embraced quality control, statistical process control or even customer feedback tools in an attempt to produce well engineered, well built, reliable vehicles. And sure, in this WalMart society, many of us would not pay what it costs to manufacture something like this. The market is too limited to entice the Japanese or Koreans, but that's what it took to provide the needed wakeup call to the Big Three automakers. I went Japanese in 1980 and never looked back, but the Big Three are certainly light years ahead of where they were. It looks like FR and possibly Thor are still in the 70's, but with no competition - why change?
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:07 AM   #109
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I purchased a 2015 FR3 28DS in January of this year. Unfortunately, we have had many issues (mostly cosmetic) since delivery of the coach. I have lost track, but guessing at this point over the 11 months we have owned the coach it has set on a repair lot for at least four of those months. I was told for the “non-essential” repairs to just keep a list of everything that needs fixed and wait until the end of the season and bring it in when the repair departments were less busy. We initially were taking it for repairs to Colerain RV in Indianapolis (where we purchased it). Unfortunately, we lost confidence in them and it is now waiting in line at Camping World in Indianapolis. I had an appointment to drop it off on November 14th (which I made the 2nd week in October - this was the earliest they could get me in). Since I hadn’t heard anything for a while I called yesterday to check on the status. Unfortunately, I learned that it is still “in-line” for a tech, but it will still be several weeks. They told me once they tech looks it over they will take pictures of the needed repairs, send them to the factory for approval, wait for a response, wait for the parts to be delivered and then get it back in line for the needed repairs. I shared with them that I need the coach back by the end of February and they told me they would try, but could not guarantee it. I would have never guessed that dropping it off on November for repairs would put a trip in early March at risk.

Here is a list of the items that need attention:
1. Main slide out roof needs replaced – Colerain identified issue earlier in the year and received approval from Forest River to replace. I was told to bring it in at the end of the season for them to do the repair.
2. The ceiling of the entire coach was painted by Colerain (it had adhesive all over it when we took delivery and painting the entire ceiling was the only fix). When they replaced the trim pieces they were not attached properly and as a result the trim pieces buckle in varying temperatures.
3. Colerain attempted to repair the trim around the countertop in the bathroom. They damaged the wall and the trim is still not glued down.
4. The bathroom door rubs around the door trim
5. The water heater is pulling away from the side wall on the exterior of the coach.
6. The bedroom slide out motor was replaced. However, there is now popping sounds coming from the slide when it is pushed in and out. I’m assuming Colerain did not adjust the cables properly.
7. Generator is becoming more and more difficult to start.
8. The front cap is oxidizing on the top.
9. The hot water lever on the kitchen seat doesn’t seat properly and causes the faucet to drip.
10. When the heat pump was running our last time out, water dripped out of the ceiling unit onto the floor.
11. Recliner foot rest is loose (left rest as you are looking at the couch)
12. Left outside speaker sound is distorted.

Obviously, these are primarily cosmetic things, but if you could see the list of items we have dealt with over the last year it is deplorable. My biggest concern now is the RV show kicks off next weekend here in Indy where they will once again sell a large volume of units that in turn will be delivered with multiple issues. From my perspective the dealerships can't service what they sold last January and they are about to open the floodgates on out of control warranty repair lines.

I've camped my entire life. I am addicted, but for the first time in my life I'm finding myself saying it may be time to find a new hobby.
Hello,

I would suggest a visit to the Factory. You are so close.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:19 AM   #110
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Like B and B said, get a date with Goshen and take it up there. I wouldn't expect CW to be any better than Colrain and they are already jerking you around.


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Old 01-01-2017, 10:22 AM   #111
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That is an excellent suggestion (visit the factory) and something I do in as much as I'm close by as well (2 hours drive time).

Every time I've been there (I call in advance and tell them I'm stopping in) which has been 2 times to pick up some items I wanted to add / modify in my unit, they have always been accomodating and friendly... and I get to nose around the factory floor and look at new units being built....lol

Hoosier Hospitality is no accident (that is the State motto) and it rings true for me.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:29 AM   #112
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But the good thing about the first year of problems with a new RV: after having to fix everything, you get to know it inside and out. And hopefully the second year goes problem free!!!
Just trying to inject some humorous sarcasm in a type of thread that always turns very negative and whiny. We attend a lot of rallies and like to compare all the brands on quality. I can't honestly say that any brand is built measurably better than others, or that the more you spend the better the quality. I think that you either get lucky and get a good unit, or you don't. And until we all stop buying new, or give up all the luxury like sidecar, things won't change with the manufacturers. And I for one do not that see that happening in my lifetime.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:35 AM   #113
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Your 'injection' is well noted and accepted too....

I didn't give up all the luxury (I'm not sleeping on the ground in a soggy tent) and I have hot and cold water and a shower and commode and a kitchen and heat like everyone else has. What I did do was limit the optional items to a minimum to keep the complexity at low level.

So far, it's worked well as I have had no issues with anything. I'm happy.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:37 AM   #114
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Didn't have time to do it right

But the factory will have the time to do it over?

So under carefully controlled and practiced conditions on an assembly line - they couldn't build it correctly. Somehow, however, these same folks will be able to disassemble, repair and reassemble properly?
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:47 AM   #115
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Just trying to inject some humorous sarcasm in a type of thread that always turns very negative and whiny. We attend a lot of rallies and like to compare all the brands on quality. I can't honestly say that any brand is built measurably better than others, or that the more you spend the better the quality. I think that you either get lucky and get a good unit, or you don't. And until we all stop buying new, or give up all the luxury like sidecar, things won't change with the manufacturers. And I for one do not that see that happening in my lifetime.
Luck... If more soon to be RV owners would do a proper PDI (I know the dealer is SUPPOSED to do it) and refuse to purchase something that isn't done properly, along with dealers refusing to sell products with problems the RV industry might clean it's act up.

I did a very thorough walk through on my current RV and gave the dealer the list. When I went to pick it up I went through it again with my list. If there had been any major issues noted on the first go through I would have walked away from the unit. As it turned out we only had one minor problem that got missed on the first walk through, had a bad A/B switch on the outside entertainment center. I told them to ship me one and I would install it. Turns out the ham-fisted installer at the factory had to jam the switch in the too small opening and cracked the board. I made the opening slightly larger and the switch assembly slipped right in.

I was parked next to a $600k Newmar at a campground back in October, he was having issues with an inverter not resetting. He called Newmar warranty service and they sent a mobile RV repair guy out. Turned out the inverter was bad. Newmar overnighted one to the campground and the RV tech installed it the next day. THAT is customer service!

I haven't had any major issues with my Concord, I have fixed a few small items that have cropped up because it was quicker and simpler than hauling it back to the dealer and waiting for weeks to have a $40 repair done.

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Old 01-01-2017, 11:01 AM   #116
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Aaron, I agree with you to a point. I think any return buyer tries to do a thorough PDI. But honestly, I think that you are only going to catch obvious imperfections and non functioning items unless you can spend several days and take off every access panel and remove the underbelly and inspect/tighten/fix everything. Which is what I do when I first get it home. And then I usually get to take it back for some major item I can't fix myself in that "warranty honeymoon" of the first year. But in our last three rigs, after the first year, we have had very few problems. But it sure makes me want to buy used next time if I can talk the boss into it
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:15 AM   #117
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I know if I bought used, which I didn't but could have, my 'boss' would want all curtains, bedding and bathroom stuff replaced...lol She's anal about that stuff.

Me, I don't care. Clean sheets and a fresh roll of TP and I'm good to go...
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:17 AM   #118
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Just trying to inject some humorous sarcasm in a type of thread that always turns very negative and whiny. We attend a lot of rallies and like to compare all the brands on quality. I can't honestly say that any brand is built measurably better than others, or that the more you spend the better the quality. I think that you either get lucky and get a good unit, or you don't. And until we all stop buying new, or give up all the luxury like sidecar, things won't change with the manufacturers. And I for one do not that see that happening in my lifetime.
I tend to agree that any brand is built measurably better than others. I'm on my 2nd V-Lite and both so far had very few issues and minor at that. Lot depends on where unit is built and how long the folks working there have been there. In My instance the plant where mine is built is on there 3rd gen of folks building campers and you can tell by there work they care. Just my observation. Later RJD
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:26 AM   #119
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......."I was parked next to a $600k Newmar at a campground back in October, he was having issues with an inverter not resetting. He called Newmar warranty service and they sent a mobile RV repair guy out. Turned out the inverter was bad. Newmar overnighted one to the campground and the RV tech installed it the next day. THAT is customer service!......."

That is not comparing apples to apples.

My BIL owns a Prevost and he gets that level of service as well. Most folks unless they have an overflowing wallet cannot afford a Newmar or a Prevost. Those are in an entirely different league.

The wife and I get to go 'camping' in it once in a while, if you call that camping... I don't and I certainly don't want the payment book though I suspect it's paid for, he's a design engineer at Ford Motor.

It is fun to drive. Has a 500 horse Detroit 60 series and goes like a raped ape.
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