Why won't Forest River work with our dealer? Feeling Buyer's Remorse

[z3406]

Just wondering has anyone tried replacing the circuit breaker?? If I was doing the trouble shooting I'ld replace the ten dollar part before the 1000.00 dollar part.

[kerrlakelover]

First, it sounds like a chinese fire drill and someone needs to get everyone back in the car and out of the intersection. Very calmly request a meeting with the dealership GM, Service Mgr and tech to review/brainstorm on the issue. Make them feel comfortable that you mean for this to be a positive meeting and not a gripe session. From that meeting develop a logical action plan and timeline. I'm from the old project management school of thought that says sit down face to face and figure it out rather than voice mails and emails.

I agree with B&B and Old Coot and this is not rocket science...120v shore power in to the panel, thru the 20amp breaker, and thru the wiring to the AC. However, at this point it's surely gonna require a service tech who has some above average problem determination and electrical skills. If they've tried the KISS approach by trying several AC units (did they also replace the breaker?) and realized the same failure, it for sure sounds like more of an electrical issue rather than the AC. As also said, a good clamp on volt meter in the right hands should be able to resolve this pretty quick...IF the tech is given time to focus on it by whoever his boss is. (I also like vinmaker's idea of temporarily running a drop cord from the house receptacle and hard wiring it into the AC as a test.)

Hey, it could be something as simple/complicated as a screw that has pierced the electrical wire sheathing and is a freckle away from the wire and only shorts when/if the environment is just right by expansion of the copper wire or screw or wall. This may sound silly, but we've all heard of stranger things on this forum.

[dcheatwood]

Seems if your unit is new, a simple fix would be anew warranted a/c. Any decent dealer could do that.

[auntieshoes]

The issue so far has not been a defective AC unit. The dealer has installed at least 3 ACs. At least one of those was taken off of a RV on which it was working fine. The issue is either the wiring in the coach or the inability for the functioning AC units to work once they are installed on our coach.

[Campin Cajun]

Originally Posted by kerrlakelover

Very calmly request a meeting with the dealership GM, Service Mgr and tech to review/brainstorm on the issue.

Hey, it could be something as simple/complicated as a screw that has pierced the electrical wire sheathing and is a freckle away from the wire and only shorts when/if the environment is just right by expansion of the copper wire or screw or wall. This may sound silly, but we've all heard of stranger things on this forum.

This is the best idea I have read so far.

Also the second suggestion has probably been the most common cause of electrical gremlins in RVs.


2013 Berkshire 390 BH

[auntieshoes]

Originally Posted by kerrlakelover

First, it sounds like a chinese fire drill and someone needs to get everyone back in the car and out of the intersection. Very calmly request a meeting with the dealership GM, Service Mgr and tech to review/brainstorm on the issue. Make them feel comfortable that you mean for this to be a positive meeting and not a gripe session. From that meeting develop a logical action plan and timeline. I'm from the old project management school of thought that says sit down face to face and figure it out rather than voice mails and emails.

I agree with B&B and Old Coot and this is not rocket science...120v shore power in to the panel, thru the 20amp breaker, and thru the wiring to the AC. However, at this point it's surely gonna require a service tech who has some above average problem determination and electrical skills. If they've tried the KISS approach by trying several AC units (did they also replace the breaker?) and realized the same failure, it for sure sounds like more of an electrical issue rather than the AC. As also said, a good clamp on volt meter in the right hands should be able to resolve this pretty quick...IF the tech is given time to focus on it by whoever his boss is. (I also like vinmaker's idea of temporarily running a drop cord from the house receptacle and hard wiring it into the AC as a test.)

Hey, it could be something as simple/complicated as a screw that has pierced the electrical wire sheathing and is a freckle away from the wire and only shorts when/if the environment is just right by expansion of the copper wire or screw or wall. This may sound silly, but we've all heard of stranger things on this forum.

Good suggestion KLL. It's even more complex as I live 100 miles from the dealership, and when I have told the service people that I think it's time to bring in the GM/Sales Manager, they are resistant. I don't know if they don't want management involved or if management has asked not to be bothered.

But if we can't get a fix, that's going to have to take place. And I like having everyone in the same place as well as there is no "he said, she said" to add to the confusion.

Since I don't know what a volt meter is, but my husband does, I will make sure he sees your post and discusses your suggestion with our service rep when they call later today.

[vinmaker]

Great idea with the friendly meeting. A positive attitude will go a long way.

I totally agree with the potential wire sheath problem. That is why you need work on isolating the problem. It can be done from both ends. By testing the A/C (end point) and the shore power (beginning point) and working towards the middle. Whatever that is. Each part is obviously connected with a wire and each wire must be checked for damage. If the entire run of wire is not able to be inspected then you must bypass it with a test wire. You must create a system that isolates the problem from the RV itself.

If it was me. I would simply rewire the whole damn thing directly. Shore power to breaker box to A/C unit with a small wire to thermostat. Just leave the remaining wire in the RV dead. This is a whole lot simpler and quicker than trying to find an electrical gremlin.

Vin.

[KMP44]

Originally Posted by vinmaker

Great idea with the friendly meeting. A positive attitude will go a long way.


If it was me. I would simply rewire the whole damn thing directly. Shore power to breaker box to A/C unit with a small wire to thermostat. Just leave the remaining wire in the RV dead. This is a whole lot simpler and quicker than trying to find an electrical gremlin.

X2 on both suggestions. As much as you probably want to tell them in explicit detail what you think of this whole mess, it probably won't help you get the result you want, which is your new rig working like it should.

I can't believe they would have installed 3 AC units but haven't bypassed the coach's wiring with a temporary wire from the breaker. Then if it still trips, try it with another breaker, and so on back to the shorepower. If all 3 AC's don't work, its time to start eliminating other potential components until they find the cause.

Hope they get resolved soon so you can get back to camping!

[kerrlakelover]

Originally Posted by auntieshoes

Good suggestion KLL. It's even more complex as I live 100 miles from the dealership, and when I have told the service people that I think it's time to bring in the GM/Sales Manager, they are resistant. I don't know if they don't want management involved or if management has asked not to be bothered.

But if we can't get a fix, that's going to have to take place. And I like having everyone in the same place as well as there is no "he said, she said" to add to the confusion.

Since I don't know what a volt meter is, but my husband does, I will make sure he sees your post and discusses your suggestion with our service rep when they call later today.

Auntieshoes, first, if the service guys resist bringing in the GM for a meeting, say thank you, hang up and call back in and ask for the GM. If he's busy, tell them you will wait. Don't leave a voicemail and give him the opportunity to go brief with the service guys before you have your conversation with him. Once you get him on the phone, very nicely explain to him your situation and firmly, but nicely, tell him you want the meeting with him, the Service Mgr and the tech. After all, you are the Customer. If all this fails, ask who the own of the dealership is and ask to speak with him.

Next, "sales is sales and service is service". No need to bring the sales mgr into this as most of the time he is out of it once you leave the dealership. The GM is usually over both departments, so you need him and the Service side of the dealership.

There are lots of good troubleshooting ideas/suggestions in this discussion, all of which a good service tech/team should be able to come up with on their own. Personally, I think they have a tech problem and a "focus on solving it" problem.

[Gem Hunters]

So very sorry to hear your tragic story about your AC problems. I agree with those who say that if the problem has persisted after changing the AC unit twice that changing it a third time will most likely not solve the problem. I would bet the farm that it is an electrical wiring issue. It could even be related to the thermostat? As for the delays in getting a wiring or plumbing diagram, the reason why they don't publish them is because although the units all run down the same assembly line, they are not all identical in the routing/placement of the concealed plumbing and electrical lines. They are "similar" but not identical. I wish you the vert best of luck!!!!


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[auntieshoes]

Originally Posted by Gem Hunters

So very sorry to hear your tragic story about your AC problems. I agree with those who say that if the problem has persisted after changing the AC unit twice that changing it a third time will most likely not solve the problem. I would bet the farm that it is an electrical wiring issue. It could even be related to the thermostat? As for the delays in getting a wiring or plumbing diagram, the reason why they don't publish them is because although the units all run down the same assembly line, they are not all identical in the routing/placement of the concealed plumbing and electrical lines. They are "similar" but not identical. I wish you the vert best of luck!!!!


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Thanks Gem. I think FR might have had the same realization. When I contacted the dealer to see what today's news was I was told that FR decided not to try another brand of AC and instead gave the dealer a set of instructions to check the electrical/wiring. Sadly the tech assigned to work on our unit had the day off and they could not free up another tech to take on this task.

Your info about how the wiring is not always going to be the same would explain why there is no standard diagram.

Whether the AC is working or not, we are going camping on Friday. This was a trip we planned several weeks ago and we are looking forward to relaxing with friends and remembering why we bought this extravagant toy in the first place. Hopefully the weather at higher elevations will be cool enough that we can forget about this problem for a few days.

[Gem Hunters]

You would think that a company owned by Warren Buffet could and would produce a quality product that was second to none. But when you read about all the reoccurring problems on the FR3 with broken steps, broken slide-out gear boxes, faulty AC units, plumbing issues, windshield issues, shower issues, etc. Makes you wonder, "what's next?" I'm almost afraid to take mine out for fear of what is going to breakdown! It is disturbing to say the least. Combine that with their dealer network who can't seem to fix anything in less than 3-weeks only adds insult to injury!! Heck, the guy who did my walk thru with me when I picked my new FR3 didn't even know where the switch was for the awning LED lights! Forest River....are you listening?????? Better yet, do you care??????


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[Campin Cajun]

Folks please remember and/or realize that lots of the different systems in these coaches come from third party vendors. Most times if a person contacts that vendor directly you will get a quicker response and fix.


2013 Berkshire 390 BH

[zippyzrx]

More importantly i dont post up when it works as it should...only when it has issues. Which is what most probably do. The old....it only takes one Oh-snap to wipe out all the Atta-boys.

/saying that even though mine has been in to dealer now coming up on 2 weeks tomorrow. Hoping to get good news in next 24 hours. Down to 9 days to our next planned trip.

[Gem Hunters]

I understand what you are saying but let's get real...... If I buy an $80K vehicle from Ford they best not tell me to contact Company XYZ that the bought the _____________parts from. With the exception of the chassis and drive train, FR made the decision who they were going to purchase the various components from,not you or me. We should not have to suffer for "their" poor choices. They are responsible for the design, assembly and the quality of the product they are producing and selling. They decide which dealer gets to sell their line of products. Uneducated, unqualified and untrained dealer techs only makes a bad problem worse!


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[cdnwillyg]

I have sat and read through this post and regardless of the issue why hasn't FR stepped in and resolved it? The RV owner should not have to get involved between dealerships and home office with any warranty issues. I don't care what the cost, resolve the issue. I find it really sad when the buck gets passed around to who's fault it is....don't care!!!! They take your money they should stand behind their product.
Can you tell I'm going through a similar issue but not how to fix it, or whos's fault it is but the estimate is too high from a third party that has the expertise to resolve it. We complain that these RV's seem over priced but pay because thats what it takes to get them.
Come on FR man up as they say!!!!

[Campin Cajun]

Gem, I get what you are saying also. I'm just suggesting that if the route a person takes to repair a problem is not working, then other avenues are there. And I don't think I said FR tells a person to go to the manufacturer of a certain system. And unless a person buys a 5 million dollar Prevost they're gonna have problems.




2013 Berkshire 390 BH

[Lynkage]

Originally Posted by kerrlakelover

(I also like vinmaker's idea of temporarily running a drop cord from the house receptacle and hard wiring it into the AC as a test.)

Hey, it could be something as simple/complicated as a screw that has pierced the electrical wire sheathing and is a freckle away from the wire and only shorts when/if the environment is just right by expansion of the copper wire or screw or wall. This may sound silly, but we've all heard of stranger things on this forum.

This is really the method that should be used to troubleshoot the problem. If there is even a nick in a wire it will reduce the effective wire size and not be able to provide the AC unit with the appropriate power necessary to run the ac and the new AC units are tripping off because of the lack of power to the unit. This will also NOT trip a breaker because it is after the breaker and the AC unit is relying on it's own internal protection circuit because the heat buildup is at the failure point (nick) and this is how electrical fires start.

As was stated above talk firm but nice to the dealer and "suggest" some of these troubleshooting methods and see what happens. More than 1 AC unit replaced should have told the tech that he was moving the wrong direction and to start to look in other places. Troubleshooting is more difficult than people realize but it comes down to common sense and knowledge of the systems you are working on.

Hope this helps in some way.

[Mary Ellen]

Auntieshoes,

First of all, I love your name! I love my aunties (I'm a fabulous auntie, myself), and I love shoes.

Second of all, I feel your pain. I've got a water leak issue going on right now, and we haven't been able to camp since July 4th weekend. I'm hoping we get the trailer back in time for a quick getaway this weekend. But it's not looking good... (I totally agree with your point about making the payments, and the insurance bills, on a new trailer we can't use.)

Thirdly, didja know there's a Nuclear Option? I don't think you're at that point yet (almost, though... ) But a Nuclear Option might involve picketing, on a public sidewalk outside the dealership, with a sign that said something like “Unable to camp for XX days in my brand-new Dealership Name trailer. Ask me why.” On a busy Saturday.

Good luck. You've gotten some great suggestions here re: isolating the problem, and meeting with the GM. Don't go Nuclear...

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by Mary Ellen

Auntieshoes,

First of all, I love your name! I love my aunties (I'm a fabulous auntie, myself), and I love shoes.

Second of all, I feel your pain. I've got a water leak issue going on right now, and we haven't been able to camp since July 4th weekend. I'm hoping we get the trailer back in time for a quick getaway this weekend. But it's not looking good... (I totally agree with your point about making the payments, and the insurance bills, on a new trailer we can't use.)

Thirdly, didja know there's a Nuclear Option? I don't think you're at that point yet (almost, though... ) But a Nuclear Option might involve picketing, on a public sidewalk outside the dealership, with a sign that said something like “Unable to camp for XX days in my brand-new Dealership Name trailer. Ask me why.” On a busy Saturday.

Good luck. You've gotten some great suggestions here re: isolating the problem, and meeting with the GM. Don't go Nuclear...

And what if the dealer then hooked up to your RV, dragged it out to that public sidewalk, unhooked from it, dusted off his hands, smiled and wished you a good day?


That *is* a viable "nuclear option" for the dealer. The very title of this thread implies that the OP is more upset with FR than with the dealer. From what I've read, the dealer IS trying to work with the owner.

I strongly advise not going with the "nuclear option" and I won't put a winky winky behind it.